BMacdermott

Many thanks John All votes duly logged and acknowledged with the 'Thx' tick. I didn't list the LNER 6-plank as it is already made RTR by Oxford. Having had some good chats earlier in the thread with Graham (LNER4479), I have made some alterations to the content of Mini-Poll No.5 (next Monday) to include more 'Opens''. Brian

Thanks Mark Any idea if they were 'regulars' at PN? Brian

Hello John I have just re-read your post on Tony Wright's thread. My apologies...I have mis-read it as you wanting to see RTR models made, whereas you were referring to Parkside Kits. I haven't logged your votes above on the basis that you are not interested in duplications and any votes here must be on the basis of what you would realistically buy if ever made. Apologies again. Brian

Hello everyone A picture on page 119 of Rail Centres: Peterborough shows three Stanton wagons in 1965 (according to the caption). Are these LMS Diag.1806 Cement Hoppers? Were they 'regulars' at PN? Brian

Hello John Banana Vans are available for your vote over on Gilbert's Peterborough North thread. Brian

Hello Tony, I have never turned the subject into a contest - others have always spoken first, to which I have had to reply. I speak with the experience of having run RTR Wishlist Polls and similar since about 2009 on the old MREmag. Brian

Hello Graham Totally agree here...and that has been part of my 'argument' when it comes the old chestnut of 'kits vs RTR'. If you don't have that key word of competence - aptitude - you are probably more likely to fail. Brian

Hello Graham I fully take and agree with all your points and comments, particularly that the makers will often go for ‘the glamour types’ in advance of the ‘workhorses’ that aficionados such as ourselves would prefer. Let me set out some of the difficulties… In my introduction, I said: “There are no doubt hundreds of different freight vehicles that would have been seen at Peterborough North over the years, but our Mini-Polls can only capture a small number. If you feel something is missing, please let me know – with reasons – and I will try to fit it in later.” On Saturday, I supplied a long list of what has come to market since 2000 – the ‘broadly open’ types amongst those were as below, hence they are not on my list: Bachmann Highfit Steel Open Bachmann 1-plank Lowfit Bachmann 3-plank Open Bachmann Shocbar Open Bachmann Pipe Wagon Bachmann Fitted Tube Dapol 4-plank Open Dapol 5-plank Open 9ft Wheelbase Dapol 7-plank Open 9ft Wheelbase Oxford 6-plank General Merchandise - LNER Oxford 7-plank Wagon Rapido SECR 5- & 7-Plank Wagons In The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 we listed a total of 97 individual steam era wagons along with 17 ‘catch all’ titles such as SECR Wagons, Vans & Brake Vans – which include ‘opens’’ – as we simply had no room to list everything. The specifically-noted ‘opens’ among those were: GWR 9ft Wheelbase Opens GWR 10ft Wheelbase Opens GWR Open Shock Wagons SR 5-plank Open SR 8-plank Open 9ft & 10ft Wheelbase SR Container Wagon 9ft & 10ft Wheelbase (could be used for what were known as ‘invalid cars’) SR Container Wagon 18ft 7in Wheelbase (ditto) LMS General Merchandise Opens (Diag.1666 etc) LMS/LNER/BR Unfitted Tube Wagon LMS/LNER/BR Lowfit – 1-plank LMS/BR Medium Goods – 3-plank (BR) Continental Ferry Wagons – Open BR Medium Goods – Steel 13-ton BR High Goods – Open 13-ton BR High Goods – Shochood B BR High Goods – Shocroof A Note that we had no specific LNER types! Within the 2019 Poll, we listed 68 NPCCS items. As far as 6-wheelers were concerned, that was split as: 8 – Milk Tankers (and Trailer Carriers) 6 – BG or CCT types 3 – Fish Vans I am happy to run other Mini-Polls for you in the future, but that will be subject to Gilbert agreeing. Brian

Hello Graham Apologies... were at 'crossed purposes' but you replied quicker than I was able to delete my post! Brian

Post deleted. Back later!

Thanks Steve I'm not sure about wheelbase variations on these as I don't have any LNER wagon books that give Diagram Numbers. I have attached a PDF of what we wrote in The Guide to The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019. Brian Mini-Poll Goods Vans.pdf

Hello everyone My choices are: 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 11 and 12. The two 12ft Wheelbase Fish Vans would add much needed variety to the current Bachmann LNER 10ft wheelbase bauxite and Hornby 15ft wheelbase white versions. I have also gone for both types of Goods Vans which could be made in fitted and unfitted versions on wood or steel underframes, with some having planking variations. Whilst it has to be said that there are many Flatrol diagrams, some had just penny numbers built, but we have seen various other ‘heavy duty’ vehicles come to market. It can run empty or have your choice of a very wide range of interesting loads. We have Bogie Bolsters and Double Bolsters but – as yet – no Single Bolsters. These are needed for many purposes, either in their own right or capturing overhang etc. And finally, back in 2015, I got very excited when Bachmann introduced its Tube Wagon, only to be deflated to find they had picked a fully fitted diagram. Hence my vote for an unfitted one. Brian

00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.4: Freight Stock – 4-wheel (Pre-1951) Hello everyone Welcome to the fourth in our series of seven Mini-Polls concerning rolling stock that has at least some connection with Peterborough North. I am running them on behalf of Gilbert. Mini-Poll No.5 Post-1951 4-wheel Freight Stock will follow next week, with No.6 Bogie Freight Stock the week after. We eventually finish with No.7 Departmental Stock. There are no doubt hundreds of different freight vehicles that would have been seen at Peterborough North over the years, but our Mini-Polls can only capture a small number. If you feel something is missing, please let me know – with reasons – and I will try to fit it in later. I have listed Banana Vans 'generically' - but were any seen at or passing through PN? You can submit your wishes here, on the thread, as usual, or PM me direct if you prefer the ‘secret ballot’ method. If you vote on the thread, please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selection – hopefully, that will promote some interesting debates – but please do not take it as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’! Here’s what to do… 1. You may vote for any or all of the items listed. 2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR. 3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 12 – with comments and explanations following. 4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations. 1. Banana Vans (there are too many to list individually) 2. Bulk Grain Hopper Wagon 22½-ton (Diag.73 of late 1930s) 3. Cattle Wagon, 10ft wheelbase (1920s) 4. Fish Van 10-ton, 12ft wheelbase, as built (Diag.134 of 1938) 5. Fish Van 10-ton, 12ft wheelbase, as rebuilt, Recessed Doors, Branded ‘XP’/‘Insul Fish’, Painted White, (Originally Diag.134 of 1938) 6. Goods Van 12-ton, Sliding Doors, Vertical Plank Sides, Horizontal Plank Ends with Small Shutters (Diags.14-17 of 1926) 7. Goods Van 12-ton, Sliding Doors, Plywood (Diags.172, 176, 195 of 1943-1948) 8. Low Machinery Wagon, Lowmac 4-wheel, 21-ton (inc BR Diags.2/240 etc of 1949/51) 9. Low Machinery Wagon, Flatrol 4-wheel, 20-ton (inc BR Diag.2/512 of 1949) 10. RCH Coal Wagon 5-, 6-, 7- & 8-plank (1887-1907) 11. Single Bolster Wagon (inc BR Diags.1/400, 1/401, 1/402 & 1/405 of 1949 on) 12. Tube Wagon Unfitted, 30ft 6ins & 32ft 0in (BR Diags.1/447 & 1/448 of 1951 and 1954) Technically speaking, the Fish Vans are NPCCS, but – as previewed – I have moved them here as the earlier NPCCS Mini-Poll was running at ‘maximum load’ and they were longer vehicles anyway. There are sometimes queries about exactly which variant of any item is being looked at. The answer is that it is often impossible to be ‘deadly precise’ with a 1-line descriptor, so we take the view that ‘if it looks like a Cattle Wagon, it probably is a Cattle Wagon’ – although I have to admit that the Bulk Grain Hopper listed today does look rather like a long wheelbase van! Recent past experience is showing that makers are ‘tooling up’ to make as many variants as they can for any new model. Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box. You have until 17.00 on Thursday 10 June. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Friday 11 June. I look forward to your selections and comments! Brian (Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Gilbert’s thread only and neither The 00 Wishlist Poll Team nor RMweb are specifically involved, apart from me in my ‘personal capacity’.)

Hello again Tony Some of these 'problems' can seem overwhelming and demoralising but - to quote yet more 'management speak' - Pareto Analysis works every time... 80% of the problems are caused by 20% of the possible. Sort those out and you are riding a winner with Retford! Brian

Hello again everyone I have just had a look at Roy's article, Retford in 4mm, which appeared in MRJ No.118, 2000. His purpose of building the layout was clear - to enjoy watching the trains he remembered. He went on to say (quote): "We haven't discussed electrics yet, and we won't! The last thing we want to do is ruin a good dream by complicating it! It is envisaged that full cab control would be employed with eight controllers, and although I expect the electrification to be taxing, I feel it is all too easy to be frightened due to the sheer scale of the work. After all, it's only a bit of wire and some electricity, isn't it". Brian

Hello t-b-g In the accompanying article to that of Steve Hall by MRJ Editor, Tim Shackleton, you are mentioned as working the GN Control Panel. Having looked back through a number of postings, it does seem to me - admittedly as an outside observer - that the wiring and interlocking is a root cause of at least some of the frustrations. I have to admit I made wiring mistakes on my own layout initially but - fortunately - they were easily corrected. I initially had cab control for two controllers so that, for example, I could run trains on my Down Slow and Down Fast at the same time 'for the sake of excitement'. That soon became tedious and of little value to the overall effect. Achieving 'simple but effective' is a hard task! Brian

Hello t-b-g I will quote from the 'Lessons Learned' section of the article by Steve Hall in MRJ No.171 of 2006... "Other factors to take into account early on (in planning a layout) revolve around deciding how the layout will be operated, by how many and what their roles will be and how they will communicate with each other. I would also suggest making the control panels simple to understand in order to minimise the number of operator errors." To use another piece of management speak (that derived from the film In Which We Serve)... An efficient ship is a happy ship. It sounds to me that matters have only become more complex and fractious. Retford is in need of some tender loving care! Brian

Hello everyone Possibly 15 years or so ago, Roy very kindly let me visit Retford during a group meeting, so I can appreciate the overall complexity that you all face. As noted earlier, I run to 'my own system', so I know what is involved. Can I make a suggestion for you all, now that you are 'under new management' so to speak? 1. When Covid permits, gather round the layout with a large flip chart; 2. Come up with an agreement: What would a perfect running session for us all look like? 3. Assign responsibilities accordingly - signals, track, electrics, couplings etc (Robert is already on coaches); 4. Work to an agreed timescale (which needs to be 'firm but flexible' under Covid); 5. Book a date for a 'dummy run' - start 'simple'; 6. Review and improve - build in greater operating complexities over time, such as attaching/detaching, shunting etc. This may sound like 'management speak' and - to some extent - I agree that it is. However, I'll leave you with a quote from Winston Churchill in a memo he sent concerning the building of the completely novel and untried ships that my father served in during WWII: Don't argue the matter...the difficulties will argue for themselves. Brian

Hello Johnster and everyone No need for apologies at all, I fully assure you! No doubt there would be 'an electrical expert' somewhere who could wire up the old motor into various test configurations but - in my view - all's well that ends well. I now have the benefit of two locos at an overall cost of under £100, whereas my original dilemma was 'one dead one' heading to eBay. All the best and thanks again to all who wrote in. Much appreciated! Brian

Hello cypherman I can't be 100% certain but the evidence seems to stack in that direction. Brian

Hello again I forgot to say that Ballast Wagons will be taken up in the Departmental Stock Mini-Poll No.7. Brian

Thanks gwrrob & 31A The LNER Double Bolster (and Plate) were in my notes but they slipped my net! Patching in shortly! Correct that I have missed the Hornby LSWR & GWR Brake Vans. Also going in shortly. Brian

Thanks LNER4479 The greater majority are 'complete new tooling'. The policy of the old 'main' 00 Wishlist Poll was that we would list any item that hadn't had completely new tooling. Hence, we listed such as the LNER V2 even though it had had a new chassis. As I have often said, it is impossible to be 'deadly accurate' with descriptions. There are times when Wagon X gets announced, then gets cancelled, then gets re-announced and then eventually appears as something related but slightly different! Brian

Hello everyone In advance of our move towards Freight vehicles in forthcoming Mini-Polls Nos.4 & 5 (Mondays 7 & 14 June), I thought it might be useful ‘to take stock’ of where we are in respect of current RTR. Below is a list of what we have seen since 2000 – if you can spot any missing, please let me know and I will patch them back in. Note that dates are approximate and are either ‘announced date’ or ‘on the market date’. GWR 2001 Bachmann Goods Fruit Van 2001 Bachmann Mogo 2001 Bachmann Double Vent Van 2009 Bachmann Cattle Wagon 2013 Bachmann Shunter’s Truck 2016 Oxford 6-wheel Brake Van 2017 Hornby Brake Van 2021 Rapido Loriot (but only part of a Titfield Thunderbolt set as yet) 2021 Rapido Brake Van (but only part of a Titfield Thunderbolt set as yet) SR 2005 Bachmann Planked Vent Van 2005 Bachmann Plywood Vent Van 2012 Bachmann Pill Box Brake Van 2016 Hornby Cattle Wagon 2019 Rails SECR Van 2019 Hornby Warner Brake Van 2021 Rapido SECR 5- & 7-Plank Wagons LMS 2001 Bachmann Single Vent Van Sliding Doors 2014 Bachmann MR Brake Van 2016 Hornby Coke Hopper 2019 Hornby Brake Van LNER 2002 Bachmann 20-ton Brake Van 2010 Bachmann Highfit Steel Open 2010 Bachmann Fruit Van 2010 Bachman Vent Van (Plank and Corrugated Ends) 2014 Bachmann Fish Van 10ft 2015 Hornby 20-ton Coal Hopper 2016 Oxford Cattle Wagon 9ft wb 2016 Oxford 6-plank General Merchandise 2016 TMC Double Bolster/Plate Wagon 2018 Hornby Brake Van 2020 Oxford GER 10-ton Van BR (but note that some may ‘derive from’ company vehicles) 2001 Bachmann Conflat A 2001 Bachmann 1-plank Lowfit 2001 Bachmann 3-plank Open 2001 Bachmann 16-ton Slope Side Mineral Wagon 2001 Bachmann 16-ton Slope Side Tippler Wagon 2002 Bachmann 24-ton Ore Hopper 2005 Bachmann Shock Absorbing Van 2006 Bachmann Shocbar Open 2008 Bachmann Plywood Vent Van 2008 Bachmann Fruit Van 2008 Bachmann Insulated Van 2010 Bachmann Presflo Cement 2013 Bachmann CovHop 2013 Bachmann Grain Wagon 2014 Bachmann Pipe Wagon 2014 Bachmann Vent Van 2015 Bachmann Fitted Tube 2017 Bachmann Vanwide 2017 Rapido Gunpowder Van 2017 Kernow Bogie Bolster E 2017 TMC 25.5-ton Double Door Coal Wagon 2018 Accurascale 25.5-ton Coal Hopper 2020 Accurascale 21-ton Mineral Wagon Double Doors Other 2000 Bachmann Coal Traders Pack 2000 Bachmann 14-ton Tank Wagon 2004 Dapol 12-ton Tank Wagon 2005 Bachmann 45t Monobloc Tank 2005 Dapol 9-plank Mineral Wagon Double Doors 2005 Dapol Lime Van 2006 Dapol 4-plank Open 2006 Dapol 20-ton Steel Mineral Wagon 2008 Dapol Rectangular Tank 2009 Dapol 5-plank Open 9ft wb 2009 Dapol 7-plank Open 9ft wb 2011 Hornby 27t Iron Ore Tippler 2011 Hornby Standard Brake Van 2015 Oxford 7-plank Wagon 2015 Heljan Class A & B Tank Wagons 2016 Bachmann Anchor Mounted Tank Wagon 2016 Bachmann Warflat 2016 Hattons Warwell etc 2016 Oxford ICI Limestone Hopper Wagons 2018 Oxford Tank Wagons They split up as: 38 – Bachmann (but none announced since 2017. Presflo Twin Silo announced then cancelled) 9 – Hornby (but they didn’t really start to ‘kick in’ with Freight until 2016) 8 – Dapol 7 – Oxford 4 – Rapido 2 – Accurascale 2 – TMC 1 – Rails 1 – Hattons 1 – Kernow 1 – Heljan This might give the impression that we are ‘well served’ with freight types, but I believe there are many types just waiting in the wings: * Banana Vans – plenty of diagrams, travelled far and wide, a train of 20 vans is perfectly reasonable. * Bogie Chemical Tanks – remember the Hornby Dublo ones? * Container Types – the containers themselves that is. * Continental Ferry Wagons & Vans – a wide variety to choose from. * Early RCH Coal Wagons – you will be able to vote for those on Monday. * Ex-Company Opens and Vans – there was a myriad of these types! * ‘Heavy Duty’ types – such as Flatrols, Trestrols, Weltrols, Loriots, Bogie Plate Wagons etc. * Mineral Wagons – such as the SNCF type. Food for thought! Brian

Hello everyone Many thanks for all your comments... I am pleased to say that the new motor arrived from Hornby and - after a bit of 'test wiring' to see which wires connected where without the DCC sockets etc - the loco is up and running! Brian