BMacdermott

Hello everyone My late (and great) teacher of typography when I was studying at the London College of Printing would now be having apoplexy at how many type sizes one can get on one page! Brian

Thanks Brian ()

Hello Phil The answer is yes. Brian https://peco-uk.com/products/lner-bogie-brick-wagon

Final Call for Votes 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.7: Freight Stock – Bogie, plus Palbrick for consistency Hello everyone A reminder that the 'Polling Station' closes at 17.00 today, with Results due tomorrow. If you haven't already voted, here’s what to do… 1. You may vote for any or all of the ten items listed plus a response to item 11 (if you so wish) 2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’. 3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 10 – with comments and explanations following. 4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations. Bricks 1 BR Palbrick Wagon – 4-wheel (BR Diag.1/021 of 1954) 2 Bogie Brick Wagon (LNER 1921) Chemicals 3 Bogie Chemicals Tank Wagon (Caustic Soda, Liquid Chlorine, Nitric Acid etc) 4 Bogie Sulphate Wagon (LNER 1930) Bolsters 5 Bogie Bolster D Wagon 42-ton (LNER and BR Diags.1/470, 1/472, 1/476, 1/478, 1/484 of 1949-61) 6 Bogie Bolster Quint D/Plate Wagon 42-ton (LNER and BR Diag.1/490 etc of 1949) 7 Bogie Rail Wagon 50-ton – Borail (Diag.1/482 etc of 1959) Trolleys 8 Bogie Trolley Wagon – Flatrol (eg LNER DD of 1929, BR Diag2/511 of 1949) 9 Bogie Trolley Wagon – Trestrol (eg LNER Trestrol A, BR Diags.2/680 & 682 of 1951/3) 10 Bogie Trolley Wagon – Weltrol (eg LNER Weltrol P, BR Diag.2/730 etc of 1949) 11 Your specific Chemical Tank Wagons There are multitudes of Chemical Tank Wagons, so please feel free to state any specifics you would like to see made. Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box. Brian (Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Gilbert’s thread only and neither The 00 Wishlist Poll Team nor RMweb are specifically involved, apart from me in my ‘personal capacity’.)

Hello Mike Indeed that is true and - on reflection - Item 2 would have been better constructed as L & M Diagrams. If anyone wants to vote for M Diagrams please do so. Brian

Hello Graham Would they be these? GWR Autocoach – Wood-panelled 70ft Ex-Steam Railmotor (Diag.A26 of 1928-36) If so, they have been High Polling in The 00 Wishlist Poll for a while. Brian

Hello Phil & everyone Link below for Newton Abbot Library Railway Studies. Well worth a visit. Check times as I think you need an appointment. http://newtonabbotrailwaystudies.co.uk/ Brian

Hello Fatadder Sorry to disappoint you but it's 90% BR days. Brian

Hello Phil The Noon Penzance-Crewe conveyed the L22 off the Down 6.25am as far as Bristol (not vehicles). The same train (noon that is) conveyed two of the other L22s Cardiff-Crewe and Liverpool. Brian

Hello Phil I think have 'cottoned on' to what's in your mind... The 4.25pm Plymouth-Paddington Parcels. Booked to convey: Gas Tank, Fruit Ds, Tobacco Van, Siphons (specific running numbers), Full Brakes, Enparts Van and just about anything anyone could hook onto it, including Milk Tankers. A photo on page 36 of Railways in and around Newton Abbot shows a Hall coupled ahead of a WD 2-8-0 in 1956. Brian

Hello Phil I'm not aware of anything 'postal' around 4.00pm. On Saturdays, the 10.10pm only went as far as Plymouth. The return from there departed 9.13pm. Brian

Thanks Fatadder...and in Winter 1935/1936, it was 6.48pm. Brian.

Hello Mike (Wiltshire) Just to confirm...are you voting just for Diag.L22, or the others too? Brian

Hello Phil Yes, indeed there was. Left Penzance at 6.40pm (1956 timings). For your interest, the train was booked to convey a Siphon G from Torrington. 7.42pm from Ilfracombe, detached and attached at Exeter St Davids. Brian Brian

Hello everyone Furthering Fatadder's post above, I also 'model' the 6.25am Bristol-Plymouth, but in late 1959/early 1960. The word 'model' is in quotes as I approximate the train from RTR stock and am currently substituting the Diag.L22 with a Bachmann TPO (W80300). The L22's return from Penzance was in the Noon to Crewe (as far as Bristol). Did the van actually pick-up via the apparatus on this stretch? Brian

Hello everyone I am voting specifically for the L22 – but have added L23. I’m not a ‘model manufacturer’ and don’t profess to understand the economics of slip tools etc but I wonder if the following is possible… The Diag.L22 is a 50ft vehicle – so is Diag.L23. Now, if the L23 shared the same or very similar underframe to the L22, would a maker possibly ‘tool up’ for that as well? There are benefits with Diag.L23… · They were in the Paddington-Penzance TPO · When displaced in 1959 they were transferred to BR’s Southern Region South Eastern Division and painted green in 1960. By 1961, they were allocated to London Bridge-Dover workings. · Nos.813/4 returned to the Western Region c.1972; converted as Enparts vehicles. · Significantly, No.814 has been preserved in working order at the Great Western Society, Didcot and demonstrates TPO pick-up and delivery. This vehicle was built new in 1940 to replace the same-numbered vehicle which had been destroyed in an accident. · It is generally considered that a model sells better if there is a preserved example. Some nay-sayers might well exclaim (such as): No-one will want TPO vehicles as they are always in such long trains and modellers don’t have the space. My response to that is – and adding to what reader mdvle said on page 1648 – there will be many who might buy them simply because of the preserved example or the ‘eye candy’ value. Not all modellers are ‘aficianados’ and many simply ‘collect’. Finally, two pictures of Diag.L22 vehicles for you: · Page 40, Steam on West of England Main Lines (Peter W Gray) · Page 79, Scenes from the Past:19. Railways in and around Newton Abbot & Torbay (CR Potts) Brian

GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.3: TPO Stock Hello everyone Welcome to the third in our series of GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls. I am running them here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf. When we started looking at the subject, it soon became clear that simply listing all the Diagram L vehicles wasn’t going to be a practical method. We have, instead, focused on the content of ‘mail trains’ in two sample years – 1936 and 1956 – and have ‘suggested’ an outcome which rather neatly coincides happily with the earlier postings of Fatadder and Coach Bogie! Within the trains, vehicles are listed in ‘diagram order’, not train formation order. The running numbers are those which could have run in the trains. Only the TPO vehicles are noted (except in the 6.25am at the end). Some trains would have been very long! For clarity, we have detailed the trains as on a typical day and have ignored the complications of SO, SunO etc. 5.30am Paddington-Penzance Diag.L22 No.798 or Spare. To Taunton Train did not convey the L22 Van in 1956 though. 10.10pm Paddington-Penzance Postal Diag.L13 Nos.834, 835, 836 Diag.L14 Nos.830, 831, 832 Diag.L18 Nos.806, 807, 808 Diag.L21 Nos.793, 794, 795 Diag.L23 Nos.812, 813, 814 In 1956, as above but... Diag.L13 No.835, with Diag.L25 Nos.846, 847 replacing L13 Nos.834, 836 Diag.L25 Nos.843, 844, 845 added Diag.L26 Nos.39, 81, 1177 added (converted from Diag.K40 PBV with TPO offset gangways) Although in his book, Great Western Coaches from 1890, Michael Harris indicates that L22 No.798 was in this train, we can find no evidence of that in the Carriage Working books. 9.25pm Paddington-Neyland Diag.L19 Nos.848, 849. Bristol-Cardiff Diag.L24 Nos.815, 816, 817. Paddington-Neyland (but after 1956, to Bristol only) In 1956, Diag.L20 No.796 was in the train, Bristol-Carmarthen (Timing unknown) Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth Diag.L22 No.797 1.25am Crewe-Penzance (2.55am Shrewsbury-Penzance) Diag.L22 Nos.801, 802, 803. Crewe-Cardiff. 6.25am Bristol-Plymouth Diag.L22 Nos.799, 800 formed ahead of a Parcels Van, Brake Van, SK, CK, SK, BSK. The Mini-Poll Team believes that the Diag.L22 is a pragmatic option for a broad range of modellers because it: · Is a ‘short’ vehicle at only 50ft (ideal for Radius 1 curves); · Has a long life-span, 1933 to 1968/9; · Has good livery options; · Has electric lights (which seem to be popular these days on DCC layouts); · Has the option of net apparatus (Nos.797-800) or not (Nos.801-803); · It actually ‘looks like’ an archetypal TPO (not unlike the very old Tri-ang working model); · Nos.799 & 800 can run in the short-ish 6.25am Bristol-Plymouth; · Can no doubt be placed in an ‘ordinary’ Parcels Train if you are running it ‘Empty to Works’. But you may disagree and your comments will be welcome! Have your votes below... 1. I want to vote for just the Diag.L22. (Simply state L22 on your posting) 2. I want to vote for the following Diag.L Nos: (Such as L4, L20, L21 etc including L22 if you didn’t pick Option 1 above). Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box. You have until 17.00 on Saturday 3 July. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Sunday 4 July. I look forward to your selections and comments! Brian (Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

Hello Gilbert Were the Bogie Brick Wagons 'strategically placed' in that photo, or have I just not noticed them before? Brian

Many thanks for that Andy! Great photos! I live and learn! And that is part of the purpose of these Mini-Polls...to tease out information that we might otherwise miss. I will update The Guide notes to say late 50s. Brian

Thanks for the above. I have appended an extract from The Guide below. I was under the impression that the wagons moved to the ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’ in the 1960s. Does anyone have the article referred to below? Brian Extract from The Guide to The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 (Edited to correct 'late 1960s' to 'late 1950s') LNER Bogie Sulphate Wagon (1930) Eighty of these wagons were built in 1930 to carry sulphate of ammonia in sacks from ICI’s Billingham factory. In the late 1950s, however, some were used on rubbish trains from either King’s Cross Goods or Ashburton Grove to Blackbridge Sidings on the truncated Welwyn Garden City-Luton branch. They were nicknamed ‘Ashburton Grove Pullman Trains’. An article about the workings themselves appeared in the November 1970 issue of Railway World.

Hello Gilbert and everyone Page 135 of Peter Coster's book, The Book of The Great Northern, Part Two, shows a 9F hauling what might well be Bogie Plate Wagons. The double-page spread photo across pages 138 & 139 shows the North Box. On the right is a Meat Van - partly hidden by a signal - and, on the left, an A Type Container of some description. Brian

Hello drmditch You are, indeed, correct about the Bogie Sulphate Wagons. The 4-wheel Freight Mini-Poll was 'running over maximum permitted load' so the Containers went into their own category and the Palbrick was shunted here to be in context with the Bogie Brick Wagon. That left bogie stock a little thin on the ground, so I felt it worthwhile adding. If we had had night- and day-vision hi-resolution CCTV focused on the lines through PN during Gilbert's era, I'd guess we'd be pretty surprised at what actually went through, even if it might have been 'just the once'! Brian

Hello everyone My votes are: 1 Palbrick; 2 Bogie Brick; 6 Quint D/Plate; 7 Borail; 8 Flatrol; 9 Trestrol; 10 Weltrol. Although the Palbrick was designed for bricks, I have seen at least one photo where the vehicles are carrying the contents of the average skip! I don’t have room for a full Brick Train as such but would certainly have one or two of the bogie types ‘running empty’. Of the bolster types, the Quint D and possible ‘spin off’ of Bogie Plate Wagon really appeal to me. As noted, Revolution Trains announced the BR Borail (and later derivatives) on Friday and I hope to place an order as soon as the books are open, which I gather will be very soon. All the Trolleys appeal to me but I am aware that they will probably only be of full use to ‘main line modellers’. They all have a strong visual presence and could possibly be offered with maybe 3D printed loads. If I was pushed for some focus, then I’d go for the LNER Flatrol DD of 1929 or the 6-wheel bogie Weltrol P – both ‘real muscle wagons’, with their longitudinal timber baulks. (See pages 115 & 116 of Peter Tatlow’s book, LNER Wagons, An Illustrated Overview). Brian

00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.7: Freight Stock – Bogie, plus Palbrick for consistency Hello everyone Welcome to the seventh in our series of Mini-Polls concerning rolling stock that has at least some connection with Peterborough North. I am running the Mini-Polls on behalf of Gilbert. You will find ‘an indication’ of what we are looking at via the suggested example diagrams in parentheses as it is often impossible to be ‘deadly precise’ with a 1-line descriptor. We take the view that ‘if it looks like a Trolley Wagon, it probably is a Trolley Wagon or a member of the same family’. Recent past experience is showing that makers are ‘tooling up’ to make as many variants as they can for any new model. The Quint D and Plate are ‘a case in point’. They are combined in the list below because Tatlow, on page 83 of his book LNER Wagons, An Illustrated Overview, states that the underframe and bogies are identical. Although the Palbrick is 4-wheel, I have included it here for ‘consistency’ with the Bogie Brick Wagon. By coincidence, the Borail wagon was announced by Revolution Trains on Friday. For the purpose of this Mini-Poll, please still vote for it if you would have done so before this announcement. You can submit your wishes here, on the thread, as usual, or PM me direct if you prefer the ‘secret ballot’ method. If you vote on the thread, please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selection – hopefully, that will promote some interesting debates – but please do not take it as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’! Here’s what to do… 1. You may vote for any or all of the ten items listed plus a response to item 11 (if you so wish) 2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’. 3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 10 – with comments and explanations following. 4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations. Bricks 1 BR Palbrick Wagon – 4-wheel (BR Diag.1/021 of 1954) 2 Bogie Brick Wagon (LNER 1921) Chemicals 3 Bogie Chemicals Tank Wagon (Caustic Soda, Liquid Chlorine, Nitric Acid etc) 4 Bogie Sulphate Wagon (LNER 1930) Bolsters 5 Bogie Bolster D Wagon 42-ton (LNER and BR Diags.1/470, 1/472, 1/476, 1/478, 1/484 of 1949-61) 6 Bogie Bolster Quint D/Plate Wagon 42-ton (LNER and BR Diag.1/490 etc of 1949) 7 Bogie Rail Wagon 50-ton – Borail (Diag.1/482 etc of 1959) Trolleys 8 Bogie Trolley Wagon – Flatrol (eg LNER DD of 1929, BR Diag2/511 of 1949) 9 Bogie Trolley Wagon – Trestrol (eg LNER Trestrol A, BR Diags.2/680 & 682 of 1951/3) 10 Bogie Trolley Wagon – Weltrol (eg LNER Weltrol P, BR Diag.2/730 etc of 1949) 11 Your specific Chemical Tank Wagons There are multitudes of Chemical Tank Wagons, so please feel free to state any specifics you would like to see made. Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box. You have until 17.00 on Thursday 24 June. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Friday 25 June. I look forward to your selections and comments! Brian (Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Gilbert’s thread only and neither The 00 Wishlist Poll Team nor RMweb are specifically involved, apart from me in my ‘personal capacity’.)

Thanks for this. As you probably know, I have only recently 'become aware' of your thread (which is very enjoyable to read). I couldn't find any corresponding return Meat Empties in the 1961 Freight WTT, although there are a number of 'anonymous empty trains' booked northbound. The Railscot photo earlier clearly shows some BM Fresh Meat Containers. Brian