BMacdermott

Results - 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.5 Revised: More 4-wheel Wagons plus Opens Many thanks to the 16 voters who took part and to Clive for alerting me to the omission of the LNER 10ft wheelbase Open in the original posting. The number of votes to each item is shown in the left hand column and Comments Received are appended on a PDF as usual. Please note that the results reflect the views of those who voted here and may not necessarily reflect those of the wider modelling community. The results are very clear! Interesting that all bar two of us voted for the LMS 9ft wb 5-plank Open and that the Low Polling segment is all BR wagons! High Polling 14 LMS 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1666 of 1923) 12 LMS 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diags.1892 & 2110 of 1934 & 1946) 12 LNER 10ft wb 6-plank Open Wagon (from c.1932) Middle Polling 10 GWR 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diagrams between O3 & O11 from 1904) 10 SR 9ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1379 of 1926) 9 GWR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.O31 etc from 1932) 9 SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1400 of 1936) 8 SR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1375 of 1940) Low Polling 7 BR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (GWR Diag.O31, from 1932 with 21 various BR diagrams) 6 BR 9ft wb Open/Mineral Wagon – SNCF type, 16-ton (Diag.1/112, repatriated 1950) 4 BR Hopper Wagon – Coal 13-ton (Diag.1/142 of 1949 on) 4 BR Pallet Van – Palvan (Diag.1/211 of 1952) 13. If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 9ft wheelbase wagons, your choice would be: 7 LMS 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1666 of 1923) The other three vehicles listed here polled just two votes each. 14. If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 10ft wheelbase wagons, your choice would be: 5 SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1400 of 1936) 5 LNER 10ft wb 6-plank Open Wagon (from c.1932) Of the other four vehicles listed here none polled more than two votes. I’ll be back on Monday with 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.6: Container Wagons & Containers. Brian Mini-Poll No.5 Comments Received.pdf

Hello David Could I ask you to cast your votes as per the introduction notes? That is: My choices are: x, x, x, x. My 'focused choice' is: x Thanks Brian

Final Call for Votes - 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.5 REVISED: More 4-wheel Wagons plus Opens Hello everyone A reminder that your ‘Polling Station’ closes at 1700 today. And that Mr Duck voted in the original but has yet to re-submit in the Revised Version. Here’s what to do… 1. You may vote for any or all of the items listed plus responses to 13 and 14 (if you wish) 2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’. 3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 12 – with comments and explanations following. 4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations. 9ft wheelbase Opens 1 GWR 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diagrams between O3 & O11 from 1904) 2 LMS 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1666 of 1923) 3 SR 9ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1379 of 1926) 4 BR 9ft wb Open/Mineral Wagon – SNCF type, 16-ton (Diag.1/112, repatriated 1950) 10ft wheelbase Opens 5 GWR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.O31 etc from 1932) 6 LMS 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diags.1892 & 2110 of 1934 & 1946) 7 SR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1375 of 1940) 8 SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1400 of 1936) 9 BR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (GWR Diag.O31, from 1932 with 21 various BR diagrams) 10 LNER 10ft wb 6-plank Open Wagon (from c.1932) Other Wagons 11 BR Hopper Wagon – Coal 13-ton (Diag.1/142 of 1949 on) 12 BR Pallet Van – Palvan (Diag.1/211 of 1952) A Focused Choice! 13 If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 9ft wheelbase wagons, which one would you choose? 1, 2, 3 or 4? 14 If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 10ft wheelbase wagons, which one would you choose? 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9? Brian

Hello Rob and everyone As there has been 'a good turn out' so far for GWR Mini-Poll No.1, I am happy to now commit to running the whole series which we have agreed with Rob. They are as below and will follow the same Wednesday publication day, Saturday closure day and Sunday results day timetable. No.2: Mink Vehicles No.3: Passenger Brake Vans, Monsters & TPO No.4: Selected Freight & NPCCS No.5: Passenger & Goods Road Vehicle Carrying Wagons: No.6: Freight Vehicles No.7: Departmental Stock You might, initially, wonder why, for example, we have one as Selected Freight & NPCCS whereas the two types are quite distinct. Trust me - it will make more sense when you see the lists! It is partly due to us needing to keep the maximum load of each to 12 or fewer, but we think you will see the logic in due course. Bear in mind these are 'draft' at present. Depending on your comments and any 'matters arising' as we proceed they might change title slightly or move up or down the marshalling order. Brian

Thanks Bazza and to all who have voted so far. Bazza has noted 'full lower set of vents'...this is exactly what I was referring to in the introduction. We can't list every 'variant' (to coin a phrase!), but if you state your thoughts in the notes as Bazza, for example, has rightly done, I copy them into the 'Comments Received' so that you all can see them - and, hopefully, the makers will take them on board. Brian

Hello Mike You can select as many as of the items as you wish plus a 'focused choice'. Could you clarify your post for me please? Note to all: Please send your votes in the following example format (as per the introduction): My choices are: 2, 3, 4 & 6. My focused choice is: 3 Thanks Brian

Hello Mike Do you have 'focused choice' from any of those? Brian

Hello Denbridge If your 'focused choice' is No.3, it ought really to be one of the initial choices, too. It is not 'being greedy' - the introduction notes that it is about what you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR. Hope that helps. Brian

Hello everyone Here are my choices: 2, 3, 4 and 6. Although I would probably only want to buy one of each of the Siphon F, Inside Frame Siphon G and the Siphon J, I would certainly buy multiples of the Outside Frame Siphon G. Although the bodies of the existing models of the Gs (and the H) are – arguably – pretty good, the underframe, bogies and couplings all need the modern treatment. My ‘focused choice’ is: Item 3, the External Frame Siphon G. A GWR layout doesn’t look right without one! Brian

GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.1: Siphons Hello everyone Welcome to the first of what we hope will be a series of GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls. I am running them here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf. Within all these Mini-Polls, you will find lists very similar to that below, with a ‘maximum load’ of 12 items. You will find ‘an indication’ of what we are looking at via the suggested example diagrams in parentheses. We simply cannot list every incarnation! The makers are tending to ‘tool up’ to cover as many variants as are commercially viable. For us, the mantra is: If it looks like a Cattle Wagon, it probably is a Cattle Wagon. In order to generate some debate – and some ‘learning opportunities’ – please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selections. We also welcome your comments on variations – such as Siphons G converted for ambulance trains or converted back to ‘parcels vans’ etc. I copy all ‘Comments Received’ in order of receipt – but with names removed – and post them as a PDF with the Results. Please note that we do not welcome comments that act as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’! Here’s what to do… 1. You may vote for any or all of the items listed plus the ‘focused choice’ option. 2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’. 3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7 – with comments and explanations following. My posting which follows should serve as an example. 4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations. GWR Siphons 1 Siphon C – External Frame 4-wheel (eg Diags.O8 & O9 of 1906) 2 Siphon F – External Frame (eg Diag.O7 of 1907) 3 Siphon G – External Frame (eg Diag.O11 of 1912) 4 Siphon G – Internal Frame (eg Diag.O22 of 1926, Diag.O33 etc of 1930) 5 Siphon H – External Frame (eg Diag.O12 of 1919) 6 Siphon J (eg Diags.O31 of 1930 & O40 of 1932) 7 Siphon – ‘Low Siphon’ 6-wheel (eg Diag.O4 of 1896) Your ‘focused choice’ If there was only enough plastic available in the world to make just one of the above, which would you choose? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7. Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box. You have until 17.00 on Saturday 19 June. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Sunday 20 June. I look forward to your selections and comments! Brian (Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

Hello Andy, Phil and Graham Many moons ago, a BR book with a title something along the lines of Wagons on Hand, Ordered & Despatched, Bath Green Park was loaned to me by the Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust. It was one of the 'big' books that the railway kept massive amounts of hand-written data in. A gold mine of information! Most pages were legible but many had been somehow soaked in oil - I'd guess the book had been 'liberated' from a dumping session. The left hand column showed all the (main/regular) wagon types with dates across the top. Notes of 'specials' etc were at the foot of the pages. I took photos of all pages that I could - but my copy has 'gone awol' for the moment! If I find it - and I am now on a hunt for it! - I will post some typical pages for you. Brian

Hello everyone As previewed by Rob a few days ago, I am pleased to say that, with the help of my friends John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor, we will be running some GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls for you over the coming weeks, starting tomorrow...but with the caveat that we need a reasonable 'turn out' to make them viable. Many of you will know John as a GWR author. We are all members of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team, but we emphasise that we are acting here in our own 'personal capacities' albeit with the 'approval' of the full Team. Some of you will also be aware that I am running similar Mini-Polls on Gilbert Barnatt's Peterborough North thread. The aim of the Mini-Polls is primarily to have some fun looking at a wide range of models that you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR. A spin-off from that is that the comments and debate will provide some 'educational value'. Learning from my experience in running The 00 Wishlist Poll as well as the Peterborough Mini-Polls is that voters sometimes take matters a tad too seriously and I get postings saying (such as): Does this include Variant A, with Buffers B, in Livery C, with Wheels D, as running in years E-F? The answer is that you may assume so! It is impossible for us to list every incarnation! We run under the mantra: If it looks like a Cattle Wagon, it probably is a Cattle Wagon. OK...tune in tomorrow for some Siphons! Brian

Thanks John Indeed, I do have that book! I guess I'm just like you...we have a question, we research the question, we get an answer, but that answer produces two more questions!! The subject is simply exponential in nature! I well remember once when running the 'old main Poll' that someone wrote to us in an extremely irate manner castigating The Team for not listing Wagon A with Buffers B, Wheels C, in Livery D, as running in years E-F. Our Mini-Polls are simply for fun (and 'education'). The mantra still applies: If it looks like a Cattle Wagon, it probably is a Cattle Wagon. Brian

Hello manna Did you wish to have the additional 'focused choices'? There is no obligation, but thought I'd better mention it. Brian

Thanks Lloyd. Did you still wish to have Item 1 as your 'focused choice'? Brian

Hello Steve I have ticked the 'Thx' box but - if it were possible - I would have ticked the 'craftmanship/clever' box as well! Brian

Hello D9020 Nimbus The Class 120 has been the top-voted DMU in The 00 Wishlist Polls since 2013 (exc 2017 when The Poll was 'on holiday'). In all those years, it was also in The Top 50 and in 2019 (our last 'full' Poll) it was equal 9th overall. Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

Hello again drmditch Just to add a little to the 'smorgasbord' posting above... Page 28 of Don Rowland's book shows a photo of a Diag.1/034 wagon. The caption contains the following: On the nearside buffer at the right-hand end can be seen one of the 2.1/2" collars which were welded to the buffer shanks to give the 1ft 8.1/2" necessary with screw couplings on such conversions. Many previously unfitted wagons were dealt with in this way. Nothing's easy with railways, is it? However, this is part of the 'unwritten purpose' of these Mini-Polls in that we hope the debates and comments will increase our overall understanding. Brian

Hello drmditch As noted in the introductions: It is often impossible to be ‘deadly precise’ with a 1-line descriptor, so we take the view that ‘if it looks like a 5-plank Open, it probably is a 5-plank Open’. Recent past experience is showing that makers are ‘tooling up’ to make as many variants as they can for any new model. If you look at the table of High Goods Wagons on page 29 of the Don Rowland book, you will find a smorgasbord of: * 21 Diagrams with a combination of * Planked ends * Steel ends * Corrugated steel ends * Curb rail fitted or not * Shock absorbing or not * Sheet support or not * Full drop sides * Soda Ash version * Fitted or unfitted * AVB * AVB and Morton * Hand brake Morton * Double lever independent hand brake And that probably doesn't account for buffers, wheels, liveries etc. But to answer your question of does it cover fitted and unfitted...yes it does. Brian

Hello everyone Here are my choices: 1 to 12 inclusive! However, there are some caveats… Although I have voted for all the 9ft wheelbase wagons, the only one I would buy multiples of would be the SNCF type. As noted in my introduction, they are very useful in both Open and Mineral form. I have also voted for all the 10ft types, but would only buy multiples of the SR 5-plank and the SR 8-plank. I like them – particularly the latter, being ‘a little bit different’ – and they will be useful on my layout when in Exeter Central mode. As far as the ‘other wagons’ are concerned, I would have one of each, just for the variation. However, I might be convinced to buy (slightly) more of the BR 13-ton Coal Hopper if someone can show me photos of any in the 1950s or 1960 anywhere south of say Rugby or Peterborough. Unless I’m looking in the wrong books, they seem very camera shy. My ‘focused choices’ are: Item 4: BR 9ft wb Open/Mineral Wagon – SNCF type Item 8: SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon Brian

00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.5 REVISED: More 4-wheel Wagons plus Opens Hello everyone Welcome to this revised version of the fifth in our series of seven Mini-Polls concerning rolling stock that has at least some connection with Peterborough North. (The original posted this morning has been deleted!) I am running them on behalf of Gilbert. I’m sorry to say that Dunsignalling, Mallard, FarrMan and 3rd Rail Exile need to re-vote if they so wish. Responding to earlier discussions, you now have a number of ‘Opens’ to choose from, split up as 9ft and 10ft wheelbase. Although the SNCF type was technically a Mineral Wagon, they were often used as Opens. There are no doubt hundreds of different ‘Open’ vehicles that would have been seen at Peterborough North over the years, but our Mini-Polls can only capture a small number. It is often impossible to be ‘deadly precise’ with a 1-line descriptor, so we take the view that ‘if it looks like a 5-plank Open, it probably is a 5-plank Open’. Recent past experience is showing that makers are ‘tooling up’ to make as many variants as they can for any new model. You can submit your wishes here, on the thread, as usual, or PM me direct if you prefer the ‘secret ballot’ method. If you vote on the thread, please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selection – hopefully, that will promote some interesting debates – but please do not take it as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’! Here’s what to do… 1 You may vote for any or all of the items listed plus responses to 13 and 14 (if you wish) 2 They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’. 3 Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7, 9, 12 – with comments and explanations following. 4 If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations. 9ft wheelbase Opens 1 GWR 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diagrams between O3 & O11 from 1904) 2 LMS 9ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1666 of 1923) 3 SR 9ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1379 of 1926) 4 BR 9ft wb Open/Mineral Wagon – SNCF type, 16-ton (Diag.1/112, repatriated 1950) 10ft wheelbase Opens 5 GWR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.O31 etc from 1932) 6 LMS 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diags.1892 & 2110 of 1934 & 1946) 7 SR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1375 of 1940) 8 SR 10ft wb 8-plank Open Wagon (Diag.1400 of 1936) 9 BR 10ft wb 5-plank Open Wagon (GWR Diag.O31, from 1932 with 21 various BR diagrams) 10 LNER 10ft wb 6-plank Open Wagon (from c.1932) Other Wagons 11 BR Hopper Wagon – Coal 13-ton (Diag.1/142 of 1949 on) 12 BR Pallet Van – Palvan (Diag.1/211 of 1952) A Focused Choice! 13 If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 9ft wheelbase wagons, which one would you choose? 1, 2, 3 or 4? 14 If there was only enough plastic in the world to make just one of the 10ft wheelbase wagons, which one would you choose? 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9? Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box. You have until 17.00 on Thursday 17 June. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Friday 18 June. I look forward to your selections and comments! Brian (Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Gilbert’s thread only and neither The 00 Wishlist Poll Team nor RMweb are specifically involved, apart from me in my ‘personal capacity’.)

Hello everyone In the light of the LNER 10ft wb 6-plank emerging, I am aborting Mini-Poll No.5 and will post a revised version later today. My earlier posts are about to be deleted. Brian

Hello again Clive Just looked through the Peter Tatlow book of LNER Wagons... Pages 21 & 22, 6-plank 10ft wheelbase! Doh! Brian

Hello Clive The subject is a complex one...and that is why I have noted twice now in the introductions that we have to take the broad brush view that if it looks like a 5-plank Open, it probably is a 5-plank Open. I was quoting from the Don Rowland wagon book (viz): Diagram 1/032 covered 50 fully-fitted wagons built at Swindon to Lot 2082. They seem to be the same as GWR Diag.O42 and were probably a Great Western Order taken over by British Railways. See page 29 of that book for table of all the variations of BR High Goods. I have appended an extract from The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 Guide below. Brian Extract from Guide to The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019. GWR Open Wagons – 17ft 6in, 10ft Wheelbase (Diags.O31 etc, 1932-BR days) Wheelbase was increased on the 17ft 6in wagons from 9ft to 10ft from 1932 (Diag.O31). The most numerous was Diag.O32 of 1933-40. These were 5-planks with one wider but now it was second from the bottom. But, from 1939, Diag.O37 wagons usually had five equal width planks with a sixth narrow one between the second and third from the bottom. BR continued with construction of late Diags.O39/40/42.

All fine John...I thought I'd better query as you noted: Whatever ones prototype preferences, you can't have too many LMS 5-planks! Brian