ChrisN

1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

I'm now halfway through my radiotherapy sessions, with another two weeks to go.

 

I'm not experiencing any serious side effects and the actual procedure is no problem - the biggest issue is trying to find a parking space at the hospital. However, I haven't been feeling at my best this week - mainly because I have a stinking cold and had a tooth extracted on Monday!

 

Since I don't feel anything, during the sessions, and the only indication that anything is happening is the movement of the equipment, it's hard to believe that it is actually having any effect.

 

My steam railmotor arrived in the post last week though, unfortunately, I had to send it back due to poor running. The replacement arrived yesterday, so a nice quick service. It needs running in but is definitely better. A lovely model - full of detail.

Nick,

Glad to hear it is going well.  I did wonder if it would make you tired.

Trust me, it is having an effect.  There are not 3ft thick concrete walls around a machine like that, or whatever they use there, if it was not able to give out a serious amount of radiation.

Hope the new steam railmotor works out alright.

I must admit what you have done so far is quite impressive.  I had not realised quite how big it was going to be.  You have certainly made progress, I am not sure how long it took me to get my baseboards built, let alone the track laid.  I assume that you have a nice flat floor so that you do not need adjustable feet, (on your baseboard legs that is).

I read a notice once distributed by the Cambrian Railways, from about 1920.  It was an encouragement to do better, and it had a list of

Trains more than 5 minutes late,

Trains more than 10 minutes late

Trains more than 20 minutes late.

There were quite a few in each.

All you needed to know about Victorian Sanitary Acts.  Maybe not all.  

Sanitary Act 1866,

Under the Act, overcrowding in residences became illegal and local authorities were required to take responsibility for ensuring sewerage systems were in place.

This would mean that Traeth Mawr Council would have had to have a sewage system, perhaps even by 1867 when the station was built, even if the sewage pipe flowed directly into the sea, which it probably did.

Public Health act 1872.  (Note change of name, interesting in itself.)

The Public Health Act 1872 established sanitary authorities in both urban and rural areas. These were to provide public health services and appoint medical officers of health.

Public Health Act 1875 

Authorities were obliged to provide clean water, dispose of all sewage and refuse, and ensure that only safe food was sold. It gave them the power to ensure that homes were connected to the main sewerage system. The Act forbade the building of new homes without such connection.

If the 1866 Act said they had to have sewage pipes then what did they do with the sewage as they were not told to dispose of it until 1875?  I have seen a photo of East Ham, I think in the 1930s but maybe later with an open sewer in the street.  My dad lived in Hoxton and in 1917 contracted polio from a 'stream' at the bottom of the garden.  I have often wondered, but only when it was too late to ask if this was a stream or a sewer.

I understand that it was different in urban and rural areas.  In the 1920s my mum was being brought up in a village in North Hertfordshire, and the water supply was a stand pipe in the street.

So, the Railway Inn was on mains sewage from the start as so were the other houses in the road, and some had piped water from the start.  This means inside toilets, not privies at the back of the garden.  Where the toilet was at the start I do not know, although there are some buildings to the left of the house on the map.

I assume that toilets at the bottom of the garden/yard were either rural or were for houses built prior to 1866.  (Fascinating, this could be a rabbit hole, but I doubt it.)

This is Barmouth, and the station is in the bottom right hand corner and the sewage outflow is in the top left.  This means when I do my 'front scene' of the beach I do not have to include a sewage pipe.  🙂

44 minutes ago, Northroader said:

My pals grandma lived just down the road from us in the village in an old house, with a little brick outhouse across the yard for a toilet, with quite a large garden behind. This drained into a sort of small pond round the back, rather like a black porridge. Every so often the council sent a tank wagon round, referred to as the “druggon” and they uses a scoop with a long handle to lower the level and cart it off.

i would think the late Victorian developers would build roads with sewer pipes for new build hotels and so on in Traeth Mawr, and the older houses and railway buildings would get connected where they went by.

When the railway arrived in 1867 the Town Council had the market square redeveloped and houses then gradually got built along Station Road between the market square and the level crossing.  The first to be built was The Railway Inn, and gradually up towards the market.  Somewhere in that the Methodist Chapple and Manse were built and an impressive house for the doctor.  Other houses were then built towards the market.

Finally in the late 1880s, the girl's school was built and opened.

Now just found a newspaper article for 25th October 1889 about a proposed sewer outfall, into the sea of course, for Barmouth.  Apparently there is still a lot of sewage going into the sea along that coast, according to internet headlines I have just scanned.

Flush toilets it is then, but I do not recommend bathing, and is that why the herring and crabs' taste is so distinctive?

46 minutes ago, Donw said:

 Sorry I don't have any postcards

However around 1860 were two inventions the earth closet and the septic tank which avoided the smell of cesspits. However both still required a decent size of garden to dispose of the waste. The septic tank more so as it required a drainage field  whereas the contents of an earth closet could usefully be buried in the vegetable plot. The house must be fairly close to  the sea and today there would be concerns of a septic tank or a cesspool leaking affecting the water.  Although in 1895 it might have been quite acceptable to have drainage than just ran out into the sea. An earth closet would usually be in a little hut down the garden or in a brick outhouse. 

My suggestion is that the railway had provided drainage running out to sea for its own use and the station masters house was connected to it.

 

Don

Don,

Thank you.

I am not sure if it is clear from my photos that the back garden is very small and is very close to the railway line.  This picture shows how close.  My first photo was taken from today's car park, and the stone wall is the boundary of the railway.  Before about 1930 or so when they built the new sea defences the car park would have been the beach, or sea depending on the time of day, tide etc., so it would have been very easy to have a pipe running down into the sea.  Earth closets would have been very close to the house, as there is no space at all.  This all makes sense of an early change to indoor plumbing.

As for Traeth Mawr.  Well the Refreshment rooms and toilets have to drain somewhere, so could either be onto the beach, or main drains once the houses across the road was built, the same could go for Mr Price's house.

I have still not downloaded any pictures but I have had a delivery of 5mm Foam Board.  Well, not actually a delivery, I had to go to the shop and buy it.  So, do not say it too loudly, I have started to mark out Mr Price's House.  So firstly, here is a picture of the outside as it was a few years ago.  

This is the back, (or front).

This is the front, (or back).

I am not sure which way round the Station Master at Barmouth would have thought is house to be, as the 'back' faced the railway.

You can see clearly at the side where there is a small window, which is probably the toilet and a stench pipe next to it.  I assumed that the house was not built with this and if you look at this image from my favourite web site dated 1873 you will see it is not there.  However, in this image dated 1897, it is most definitely there.  The dates on this web site are sometimes not very accurate but the next one to show any alteration is this one, which although on the other side shows the stench pipe.

Now my received wisdom, mainly from this forum is that upstairs toilets were a thing of the 20th century, not the late 19th, or even the first two decades of the 20th, so this is very interesting.  The next image is 1938, still quite early for inside toilets.

So, did the cash strapped Cambrian feel it had a duty of care to its employees to install inside flush toilets earlier than most, and how early?  It could be argued that the outside toilets were quite close to the line so may have given passengers arriving at Barmouth more than a bracing sea smell so that is why they did it.  The question for me is did this modernisation reach Traeth Mawr by 1895?  The house backs onto the platform so maybe they would want to get rid of the smell?

Answers on a postcard please.

If you have been, thanks for looking.

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

Another thought is to alter a model to have open doors, then place it at a loading dock.  I have that set up at North Leigh, where there is a rake of modified Airfix cattle wagons, of which one is loading at the cattle dock.

Mike,

Unfortunately, my loading dock is off stage.

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

There was some form of sliding shutter in the partition behind the grooms compartment, so the groom could keep an eye on the horses, and maybe top up their water and fodder. I gather it was bad practice for the horse to be able to see out and admire the passing countryside, as the motion would discompooperate them. (Have a look at modern road boxes) With the army cavalry movements, the occifers horses went in horse boxes, other ranks in cattle trucks, but these were sheeted over for the same reason, so I feel it would be a waste to put your horses inside the box, as you can’t see them.

Thank you.  Yes, it does seem obvious now that they were not allowed to look out.  I now have two Shires with no harness, and probably no use for them maybe with wagons, but I could add a harness for leading them, a bit like Shaun, @Sasquatch has done here.  Come to think of it I probably have a couple of those which were bought when they were new.  (I mean not second hand, and probably for 2/6.  (Two shillings and six pence, old pence.)

Yes, the primer does affect the final colour, unless of course the paint is so thick it covers it completely.  Warhammer advises a black primer for Dwarfs and a white one for elves as you want different skin tones.

I have been informed by Gary, @BlueLightning that thr horsebox is better with primer and that he uses Halfords plastic primer, which I have.  What I do not have is warm enough weather to spray outside, so the horsebox and the PO wagon are now sitting in the window looking for sunshine.

19 hours ago, John-Miles said:

They look too clean to be leaving work.

Surely, it has been colourised, so the colouriser would not put in too  much dirt?

Do your kits need primer?  I sometimes prime plastic, but sometimes not, but not sure about resin.

30 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Why stop there - it's an infinitely recurring decimal, so keep typing ...

It is right to within an order of magnitude.  😄

1 hour ago, Donw said:

Interesting as always Chris. I must get a copy of that book.

 

Don

Don,

Thank you.  The diagrams in the book are all to 7mm as well.

10 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Great Western Journal ran a series on horseboxes and horse traffic.

 

Apparently GWR vehicles had sliding trapdoors in the partition between the horses and the groom.

 

Some examples are given of the cost of horse travel - which work out to be more than double the first class fare for an equivalent journey. The groom would have costed an additional third class fare.

Nick,

Thank you.  I understand that the inside of the horse compartment was covered in leather to avoid injuring the horse, so sounds like First Class accommodation to me.  (Mind you, the GWR only used leather in the smoking compartments..........)

Still undecided about putting the horses in.

So, the question is, shall I model the horsebox, with just the groom in the groom's compartment and a solid partition, or leave two gaps in it and have two white(ish) horses poking their heads half through?  Answers on a postcard please.

12 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

Looking at the top-down view, it almost looks as though there are hinged panels in front of where the horse's head would be, which would allow the groom to check on the horse. 

I think you are right.  On some pictures of insides of different horseboxes there appears to be that sort of structure.  On a preserved one there is the framework for that but they have covered it all over, and the only model I have seen with an inside just has a full partition.

11 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

An alternative to a full floor might be to floor just the groom's compartment of the horsebox, which would then allow access to fit a partition wall.

I believe this HMRS drawing is the same type as the D53 that I drew up, but I can't be certain. It certainly shows interior details:

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-2450--horse-box--9ft-w-b--14ft-o-h.html

Thank you.  I had seen that diagram before as I was searching for information, but had not really connected it with the horsebox model.  It does appear as though the partition is made to go the whole way up, which is slightly annoying.  It does ask the question though, of how did the grooms check on the horses in transit?  Did they need to?  Was it just so that they did not have to have a ticket for the train, or did the owners have to buy a ticket for them anyway?

1 hour ago, Skinnylinny said:

Re: the horsebox and floors - there are two ledges above the solebars on the insides of the body. A piece of plasticard cut to 53mm x 28mm can be slotted in from underneath before fitting the brake gear, but after painting and glazing. That's what I had in mind, anyway! Everything on the separate brake gear part should be black, so can easily be painted separately, and should then locate once the floor has been attached and the wheels inserted, with the lugs hopefully locating things nice and centrally.

I have to admit, I hadn't considered adding horses, as they can't be seen from outside. Indeed, I haven't even added a representation of the wall between the groom's compartment and the horse compartment! It is rather dark in there, after all...

As far as the livery, I believe they would have run in mahogany, although @BlueLightning is better placed than me to advise!

Thank you, that floor sizing is very helpful.  I had not really looked at it but was expecting to have to have the floor in sections.  To be honest I have seen horseboxes, and had horsebox with my first train set but never really thought about the fact that the horses do not have windows, so I bought two to go inside.  If I can find out if the partition is full height or not will depend on whether I add the horses.  If it is half height I have seen the inside of a horsebox painted white so when you are peering it in should be obvious.  If it is full height, then some liquid lead will go in there.  There will be a groom though.

I tend to do details because I can.

1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

 

I can always send on some replacements if you do.

 

and it went in the post today, hopefully it doesn't take to long to make it to Denmark

Gary

Gary,

I do not like to take the mick, but thank you.  (Oh, I have lost a buffer, four in fact.  Where's the brake gear?  I have lost the box as well.  🙂)

50 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Nice harvest, Chris.

 

So you're the one who got the last A7 trade horse 🙂 They are currently sold out. But I follow in your footsteps with a couple of Shires and the horsebox from Gary on order.

 

I look forward to seeing how the horsebox goes. It is strange to think that esoteric pregrouping horseboxes can now be purchased fully printed. 

 

The brewer's dray looks good, better than the Shirescenes etched one from the same, er, stable.

Mikkel,

Yes, sorry about that.  The horsebox is interesting as it does not have a floor, but does have lugs to fit the brake gear to.  This will make fitting a floor, well, er, interesting.  I have also more recently bought two shires to go in the horsebox.  It is not that I think Sir Jon's brougham would need shires but they are the only Dart ones without a harness, and they will make a nice weight inside.  I did not realise that the horses had no window, so you may not be able to see them.  However, I have looked at various horseboxes and some at least show that there was a space between the top of the partition between the groom's compartment and the horses so you could see them through the groom's window.

I assume that they ran in passenger livery, ?mahogany, but what was the colour inside.  I have seen some white, which is good if you want to see the horses.  Maybe, I should just get on with it, the painting will take the most time.

Yes it is interesting what you can buy nowadays.  I have some locos I should really get which if I leave too long may not be available.

The dray is a nice kit.  I think I may have the shirescenes one as well but this is more chunky and I decided would look better.  I need some barrels, but I must check my stash of Preiser stuff.

I was going to do a proper modelling update, but I found I had not taken enough photos, so I will need to do those and then upload them.  I may have even finished something,  So, I know this will be great excitement for everyone but please try and remain calm.  I thought I would post my recent purchases and presents from Christmas.  Yes I know we are halfway towards the next one, but please indulge me.

First up:-

These are 3D prints from Gary, @BlueLightning.  The one on the left is a Honeywell PO wagon, which may be close enough to a Cambrian 4 plank wagon, but if not, Mr Price the coal merchant needs another wagon.  The one on the right is a LB&SCR horsebox that I have been wanting to finish my train for the visit of Sir Jon to the Young Englishman.  There is a Roxey Mouldings kit, but it is a brass kit, and as I am yet to do brass I have been waiting for a plastic version.  It is quite high up the list but it will need painting as I go along with it, and most painting will probably not happen until the spring when I can spray outside and keep the doors open to get rid of the smell.  You may think that it only has 3 buffers but one is stuck to the inside of the box.  It needs washing in soap and water as it is sticky but once I do that I am afraid I will lose the bits.  Watch this space.

This is the advantage of Christmas lists.  I now have enough horses for all my wagons, and plenty of chimney pots for Station Road.  In the bottom left hand corner is a brewer's dray.  I had intended to do a blow by blow build of it, but I forgot to take photos so here is it finished.

You may well ask, 'Where are the shafts?'  In the packet.  The whole thing needs painting and then the shafts need gluing to the horse, so it will have to wait.  It is well made, the bits that is, and it goes together quite well, but it is more of placing bits in the right place to glue rather than have a slot to hold something before it is glued.  The horse is a shire, which is bigger than any other horse I have, but I thought that a large horse for this would not be out of place.

Now before Christmas the whole family went away for the weekend.  My eldest son organised it as both he and myself had significant birthdays at Christmas.  Yes, you guessed it, we were both 21, (again).  My birthday was celebrated on the Saturday, and his on the Sunday.  The plan was to give me my presents after dinner on Saturday evening, but it got too late so was postponed until Sunday morning, except my youngest grandson, just turned 3, was so excited to give grandad the present that he and his sister had chosen for me.  His dad, my youngest had said to me earlier, "You will really like the present they bought you."  Of course I did.

Good old Hornby.  My middle son said with a smile, "It fits in perfectly with what you are doing."  Of course the Cambrian, 'Happy Birthday van' was scrapped before grouping which is why there is no mention of it is the wagon list.  It sits behind 'James the Red Engine' for when they come to play with my layout.

Finally, a book I have been waiting for from 2016?/ 2018?  It was bought by my youngest son.  (Just so you know, my eldest two bought tickets for me and my wife to see the Play 'The Mousetrap'.  Now I know that you are not supposed to reveal who did it but I am going to tell you.  It was the same person who did it nearly 50 years ago when I saw it last time.  🙂)

So the book.

Excellent book, as you can tell from the amazing picture on the front cover.

If you have been, thanks for looking.

4 hours ago, Pete Haitch said:

Thanks Gary, that is good news as by the time I had taken the horse box out of the pouch I was already down to three buffers! Pete.

2 hours ago, BlueLightning said:

 

Linny and I have come to an agreement for selling the buffers as a separate item, they'll be up on the website soon, in a bulk pack so you'll have some spares to replace that one (and I'll try and remember when I see your name in the orders to stick an extra one in as well)

Gary

I thought I had only three, but one was stuck to the inside of the horsebox.

Just saying.

Well done!  16 x 11 is not a bad size room for a railway room as long as it does not get filled up with clutter.

51 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

i should of course add.... I understand these folks for the SRM were scanned at Didcot.

 

As we all know, folks in the 1930's were shorter - thats my excuse of course 🤣🤣

 

Hopefully my SRM will be here in the next week or so and we can find out.

H0 figures inside things look fine.  I have used H0 figures in cabs when there was not much room, and I have some H0 figures waiting to go in my Refreshment Rooms, along with H0 tables and H0 sarnies and cooked breakfasts, ( 🙂 ), as the space is quite small.  Outside they do not look like short people, unless they are on their own at the back but nest to 4mm people they look like teenagers, which is helpful if you choose the right ones, that could look like teenagers.