ChrisN

He also did some Cambrian prototypes, but I have not sought them out.

6 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Acrylic and windows with glazing!

 

 

 

Squatch 

Shaun,

Looking great as usual.

It is interesting that you have used 7mm brick for dressed stone.  I have a number of houses tio build, eventually, all in small blocks of three or four, plus an inn and another chapel.  This looks like a material that I might try.

5 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Getting sidetracked again.

Something I love doing though. Interiors!

This is the squadron leader's front room. I suppose back then it was called a parlor, no doubt one of you will enlighten me if there's a more appropriate name.

 

 

Chairs are bits of box car ladders with .010 plastic seats and backs. Sideboard is just a bit of envelope with the details drawn on.

The wallpaper is actually curtain and panel work constructed the same as the sideboard but with a chair rail.

 

The table is made from a plastic loco wheel tire for the apron with a plastic spoked wagon wheel for the base. It was cut in half and the profile turned in the cordless with a Stanley blade and a half round file. I then snipped out the tire and four spokes. It's topped off with another bit of .010 cut with a two-point compass and finished with the Mike Trice teaking method!

 

Lastly the squadron leader's radio set. This started out as a tram bogie bolster. You can just hear the crackly sound "This is the BBC".

Any guess as to where the squadron leader's got to. Down the "Near n Far" having a stiff brandy probably.  

 

Still to do: The lamp stand and fire place.

How life's changed.

 

Squatch. 

Shaun,

Just brilliant.  You know I get side tracked by interiors as well.  Interesting as to how you did it as well.

I thought parlours were the comfortable room at the front with the sofa and chairs that only got used on Sundays.  (We had one big room downstairs in our council house so I am not sure.)

12 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

No, they come with the kit, wait until you see the dining room.

The stonework is just scraps of embossed Peco. I chose to model the dormers in stone so as to give them a West Yorkshire look and added some 1.2mm rounds to the seams.

 

Agree totally that they do look the part and am thinking of making up a short terrace. I keep trying to encourage Pettite Properties to expand their 1/76 range, their O scale calendar cottages would be most welcome in OO  for a start!

I don't know if it's just me but they keep sending me the wrong kits...I've got a station model but nowhere to put it on the layout and one other kit in the wrong scale😉

 

Regards Shaun.

Shaun,

Yes,

sorry, you said it was a kit.  Old man's disease.  I read it in the morning and had forgotten by the evening.  My excuse is that it was a busy day.

It is not encouraging if they cannot send you the right kits though.

24 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

 

That , looks very much like active job creation...  tusk, tusk!!   🤫

 

Like when my friend got knocked off his bike by an ambulance, and so they then took him to hospital.  (He was not seriously hurt.)

1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

A little more work on this yesterday. West Riding grime and windows! 

The upper story lower sashes have been recessed with bits of .020 microstrip which allow a couple to be in the raised position.

Squatch 

Shaun,

Did you make the windows?  The house certainly does look the part.

Glad I came across this thread, although I do look at your web site from time to time.

You know I am after a certain LBSCR horsebox, 🙂, but if there is anything LCDR, ( do not ask), then I may be tempted, but I have put the dumb buffered PO wagon on my Christmas list.

17 minutes ago, Coal Tank said:

How can I change the name of this thread

You 'Edit' the first post in the thread, and that will also allow you to edit the title and tags.

I understand, (*citation needed), that Edward, at least in Awdry's mind, was a Cambrian large Bogie, 4-4-0 in its final form.

Thinking about it, Goring does not seem very far from Paddington, ?45 minutes, to need water troughs.  Did locos fill up at Reading, so if they did not stop they did so at these troughs?

3 hours ago, Donw said:

I would be surprised if the GWR allowed a 2-2-2 over the mountains to Dolgellau and even more surprised if the Cambrian failed to provide an engine to take it further. Of course modellers rule 1 an be invoked. I think a renewed bicycle 439  class would be more likely from Wolverhampton.

 

Don

Don,

I think you are right.  I am not intending to run a 2-2-2 into Traeth Mawr, I am just interested in what might have pulled the train that contained the through coach from Paddington.  Part of my background understanding.

44 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

An earlier article on Wellington (Salop) has some more detail for trains north of Wolverhampton in the 1890s:

 

"A Mr CJ Alcock recalled a journey he made in 1895 to Manchester from Paddington, his coach being slipped at Wellington. An 8.15 am departure brought him to Wellington via Oxford and Wolverhampton(where the train engine, 'Cobham' single No. 162, was replaced by Armstrong 'Sir Daniel' single No. 378)..."

 

Some recorded examples:

"MAIN LINE

Date                  Eng        Class                           Train                          To

30 Jun 94           803        Std Goods (0-6-0)      7/30 Barmouth         Birmingham (Excursion)

4 Aug 94            212        W Mid   (2-4-0)           1/30 Paddington       Birkenhead

17 Dec 94          155        Chancellor (2-4-0)     12/5 Birkenhead       Paddington

6 Jun 95              378        Sir Daniel  (2-2-2)      4/45 Paddington      Birkenhead

10 Jul 95             3229      3226  (2-4-0)              6.15 Birkenhead       Paddington

23 Apr 96           439        Bicycle  (2-4-0)           1/40 Birkenhead      Paddington

14 Dec 96           578        Sir Daniel  (2-2-2)      4/45 Paddington      Birkenhead

26 Apr 98           153        Chancellor  (2-4-0)    4/15 Birkenhead      Paddington"

Nick,

An interesting selection.

I would be surprised if the Cambrian let the Stnd Goods past Dolgelley, as although the GWR had running powers, the Cambrian were very keen that they were not exercised, and so made sure it had locos to do the job.

the 1/30 from Paddington, and the 1/40 from Birkenhead were the expresses that had the corridor coaches, so it is interesting that they were pulled by 2-4-0s.

Both the 4/45 from Paddington and the 4/15 from Birkenhead are labelled in Bradshaws 'Birmingham and North Express', so 2-4-0s were taking over as time went on.

33 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

The Great Western Journal ran a series of articles on passenger operations at Paddington station.

 

For the period around 1893 it had this comment:

 

 "Expresses at Paddington around this time were hauled by 'Achilles'/'3001' class 2-2-2s (including the BG convertibles) on West Country and a few Welsh services, along with the following types on recorded services:

Class.                                        Services

'Sir Daniel' (2-2-2)                    New Milford, Birkenhead

'Queen' (2-2-2)                         Bristol, New Milford, Wolverhampton, Birkenhead

'Cobham' (2-2-2)                      Penzance, Birmingham, Birkenhead

'3232' (2-4-0)                             New Milford, Shrewsbury

'Barnum' (2-4-0)                        Penzance, Swansea"

 

There wasn't any loco info for specific trains, at this date, in the articles though.

Thanks Nick,

So it appears that it must have been some type of 2-2-2, but not an Achilles as it was not classed as an express.  So what did they put on at Wolverhampton, or could it have been another 2-2-2?

It would be nice to have shed allocations but I think the earliest are something like 1902.

52 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

In addition to Armstrong's 'Sir Daniels' and 'Queens', we should remember that Dean added the 'Cobhams', which did similar duties to the 'Queens'.  Interestingly, Dean reverted to the use of sandwich frames for the 'Cobhams', which were noted for better riding on the baulks of Brunel's type of track.  The accident report on the Shipton on Stour accident refers to baulks and transoms, indicating that the track was of this type, despite being 'narrow' or standard gauge.

 

The RCTS Part 4 notes (page D17) that the Cobhams "performed the same duties as the "Queens" and a particularly creditable performance is recorded of No. 162, Cobham, which covered the 1291 miles between Paddington and Birmingham via Oxford with a load of 160 tons in 2 hours 12 mins. 8 sec.  The average speed was 58.7 mph., including two service slacks.  During the nineteenth century Nos. 157, 160/1/4 were stationed at Wolverhampton and No. 165 ended its days at Oxford"

 

Dean also introduced his new four-coach corridor set for the Paddington-Birkenhead service on 7th March 1892, working up from Birkenhead in the morning and returning on the 1:30pm from Paddington.  The official photo shows 2-2-2 'Avalanch' in charge:

 

 

 

Mike,

Thank you, this is very interesting, it does imply that a 2-2-2 would have pulled the 10:02.  The 9:50 was described as 'The Birmingham and North Express, but the 10:02 one was the one that had the through coach to Barmouth Traeth Mawr, either from Birmingham, or in early 1895 from Paddington.

I have checked again and found that they did not put 'X' or 'SC' against the coaches themselves, (X is corridor, and SC semi-corridor), but had a note on the return trip that the coaches were a coupled corridor set.  In winter 1894/5 they consisted of : Brake Third, Third, First, Second, Brake Third', and came up by the 1:40pm from Birkenhead, and went back by the 1:30pm from Paddington, so there must have been two sets.

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

I lifted this picture off the Didcot site, a 2-2-2 on a Birmingham train at Goring troughs, the last of which didn’t go til 1914? I would expect if the 4-2-2s displaced the Sir Daniels, the older engines would turn up beyond Wolverhampton?

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

What an interesting train - a pair of E41 56 ft lavatory tricomposite brakes, I believe, coupled brake end to brake end so that the passengers in the two end first class compartments aren't ogling each other through the end widows, and a non-Great Western bogie clerestory vehicle. Great Central? Did the Cambrian have any bogie clerestory carriages? Not, I think, a LNWR 45 ft family saloon (D63, also WCJS D13) - too many doors and windows.

 

The ten E41s were built in 1893 and by 1912 three had been fitted up as slip carriages, becoming diagram F7.

 

See: http://www.gwrcoaches.org.uk/index.html.

A very interesting picture, and thank you @Compound2632 for the illumination of the carriage types..

There is nothing in the 1894/5 through carriage workings that only has three carriages.  The next one I have is 1907, but the Sir Daniel's were gone by then.

It is true that the Cambrian did not have any clerestory carriages, and only had bogie tri-composites for through traffic from 1895.  I think before then, the GWR supplied the carriages.  (In the later 'Through Carriage workings' it states, which days each company supplied the coaches, so either the Cambrian did not do that at this time, or they changed how they stated things.)

I had assumed that with only 30 locos in the Achilles Class that there would not have been enough to do more than the 'posh' expresses, but if they were replaced half way by another class then maybe they did more than I thought.  It is is debateable whether a 'First Line loco' would have pulled the 10:02, but I am sure it would have pulled the 9:50.  However, it is possible that is was some kind of 2-2-2. 

I think a lot of this has been discussed previously in other threads, probably one belonging to @Edwardian's, and to some extent mine, although it was not aimed at agricultural produce.

I seem to remember that 'Night Soil' from London was sent to Bedford, although I am not sure what the good citizens of Bedford had done to deserve that.

I also remember a list of what it cost to carry different types of animals, although it was probably put up as a picture so may well be lost.

Finally, the partitions in cattle wagons were to keep partial loads from falling over, but the GWR introduced a system, as outlined in @Mikkel's blog to ensure that the owners did not put them in a different place and so claim they had been overcharged.

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

It's a bit earlier but one of the worst railway accidents on the GWR happened to the 10 am Paddington to Birkenhead train on 24th December 1874.  The Accident Report provides full details of the train involved as follows:

 

The 10 am express narrow [i.e. 'standard'] gauge passenger train from London to Birkenhead left Paddington station two or three minutes late, and it then consisted of an engine and tender, two guards' break-vans and ten carriages ... a luggage van and a carriage were added at the tail of the train at reading.  It reached Oxford 30 minutes late, according to the head guard, J.Price [any relation to your station master?] 

 

At Oxford, a 3rd class carriage was added at the head of the train and a pilot engine No.386 of the same type [Sir Daniel class] was added to the train engine No.478, by order of the station master because it was a bad morning with heavy rain and extra carriages may have been added at Leamington, where no extra engine would have been available.

 

The train leaving Oxford was made up as follows:

 

Pilot engine with tender No.386

Train engine with tender, No. 478.
1. 3rd class carriage on 4 wheels, No. 845.(Taken on at Oxford.)
2. Guard's break-van on 4 wheels, No. 351. (Under-guard Hill rode in this van.) .
3. Tri-composite carriage on 6 wheels, No. 446.
4. 3rd class do.,No 634.
5. 3rd class do  No,555.

6. Composite do No.188

7. 1st class do No 497.
8. 2nd class do No.326.
9. Guard's break-van on 4 wheels, No. 174.(Head guard Price rode in this van.)
10. 1st; class Carriage on 6 wheels, No. 618
11. 2nd class do No.363.
12. 3rd class .. . 4 wheels, No.949
13. 3rd class ,, ,, 6 wheels,No. 637.
14. Guard's break van on 4 wheels. No. 352. (Taken on at Reading for luggage:)
15. 3rd class carriage on 6 wheels, No. 689.

 

The accident occurred at Shipton on Cherwell, due to failure of a wheel under the leading 3rd class carriage.  34 passenger died and about 65 passengers and 4 servants of the Company were injured, some seriously.

 

Mike

 

Mike,

Very Interesting.  In the through carriage working list, the instruction is that if one 8 wheel coach is not available, then two 6 six wheel coaches should be substituted, and if two 8 wheel coaches are not available then it should be three 6 wheel coaches.  I have not worked it out but, (within an order of magnitude, 🙂), the train length is about the same as the 1894/5 length.  One 8 wheel carriage and one 6 wheel van, were dropped at Wolverhampton.

I note that the Sir Daniels worked the northern expresses, and were not scraped or rebuilt until at least 1898, so apart from the prestigious expresses, that did have an Achilles, did the others still have these old 2-2-2s?  Also, what took over at Wolverhampton as @Northroader says?

So as not to worry you, the 'Young Englishman' was only nearly 10 on 24th December 1874, and was safely at home with his parents.  He did not go to Traeth Mawr until 1878 when he was sent to school there.

Now for a question, for all those who know anything about pre-grouping GWR, preferably pre 20th century.

I said on @MikeOxon's Pre-Grouping Blog I stated that the 10:02 to Birkenhead from Paddington was pulled by an Achilles Class loco.  Thinking about this, there were only 30 of these locos, so one may have pulled the 9:50 express, and one the afternoon train that had corridor coaches, although none were on the list for winter 1894/95, but probably not the 10:02 which was not really an express, but better than a semi-fast.

So what did pull it?  It was a nine coach train when it left Paddington, ( 8 bogies and a 6 wheel van.)

(You may ask is this relevant to my thread?  Well, the 'Young Englishman, who lived in Ty Mawr up the Naf Valley, also had a house in South Kensington, and would have made the journey from Paddington to Traeth Mawr regularly, taking advantage of any through coaches, so he would have travelled on this one.  Yes, I did ask him for what the loco was but he said he had lost his diary where he had written it, and it was a long while ago.)

Answers on a postcard please, either what the loco was or where I might look for the answer.  If no one knows I will have to brave the GWR section of the forum.

If you have been, thanks for looking.

On 30/10/2023 at 06:33, Mikkel said:

 

You're older than I thought, Chris 🙂

 

 

 

I suppose "The decay of flirting" is too Belle Epoque for your Victorian setting ?!

 

Anyway the kiosk is wonderful, so well observed. I hear AK Interactive's "Ultra Matt" varnish is very effective, but haven't tried it myself.

 

 

6 hours ago, Dana Ashdown said:

That is one brilliant news stand Chris!

21 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

That's detailing at its best. You must have such steady hands Chris! I do love a bit of detailing.

 

Regards Shaun.

Thank you all, and thank you everyone for your ratings.

There are few things that I do that I am really satisfied with, and this is one of them.  Also, it is nearly finished, which may be a first.🙂

37 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Chalk!

 

• Sets place 
• Helps set time
• More interesting
• Throws light around
• Sets off the Umber a treat
• More interesting to model
• More interesting to look at
• etc etc etc etc

😎

Would the chalk be clean or covered in vegetation?  There is a cutting on the M3 which I remember after it was just built was pristine white, now it is covered in green.  Would the smoky atmosphere not allow that to happen?

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

You're older than I thought, Chris 🙂

 

 

 

I suppose "The decay of flirting" is too Belle Epoque for your Victorian setting ?!

 

Anyway the kiosk is wonderful, so well observed. I hear AK Interactive's "Ultra Matt" varnish is very effective, but haven't tried it myself.

 

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  I do like that picture.  The kiosks that I have looked at all seem to be more heavily loaded than my one, but I think it is a case of impression rather than slavish adherence to reality.  Also, we are at Traeth Mawr not a busy London, or other main line station.  It was great fun, firstly working out which papers would be there, and then what periodicals for a population of conservative Welsh, ( conservative with a small 'c' as they were Liberal in politics,) and visitors from England.  I suppose if he does not sel anything I must have got it wrong.

I must admit this is one model that I feel I have not done badly at.  Most I can look at and seelots of things that I would want to do better, but generally, I like the look of this.

Various things have got in the way of modelling this week, like half term and seeing our grandchildren.  However, a couple of weeks ago I brought down the station building to finish the guttering and realised that I need to paint the gutters.  This would have had to have been done upstairs as the months for leaving the back door open are sadly passed.  As I did not want to be anti-social I looked for which of the thousand projects I have on the go I should do.  (I actually have lots of painting to do, but that is anti-social or I need to do it when my wife is at work.)

I found my newspaper kiosk.  I wondered why I had not finished it, and remembered that I had painted it a matt brown but it had come out shiny.  I also had not written down which paint it was and when I used the tin I thought it was, it was a different colour.  So I moved on.  Looking at it again, I am sure it was that tin, but I had not mixed it properly.  So, the answer was to leave it as it is and sometime when the weather is fine spray it with Matt Varnish.  It needed finishing though.

I cannot remember if I have reported this before, but I spent many happy hours, researching daily papers in 1895, and then periodicals.  There are many Welsh newspapers that have been digitised, including at least one front page of The Traeth Mawr News and Advertiser.  English papers were more difficult.  I managed to get the front pages of a number of newspapers, two in Welsh, 2 in English plus the Traeth Mawr News, for the week beginning 15th March 1895 or for the day of 21st March.  The Times and Telegraph were much earlier.  (Somehow the Manchester Guardian never made it to the stall.)  Headlines from the actual newspapers where appropriate were then extracted for display on the kiosk, where the newspaper was not current, the news that was about at the time was substituted.  

There is a web site for Victorian periodicals and front covers of several were obtained.  (The Boys Own of that week was wonderful.  Small double justified type for the stories, some pictures, but nothing like today.  The front cover had a picture of several Englishmen, and an African native tied to trees, one had a hook instead of a hand so maybe that is how they will get away.  Brilliant Stuff!  And no, I did not read it, life is too short.)  This was all done months ago.  Now lots of pictures.

I realised that I had built and not photographed, so here is a dark one of the back which may show what I did.

The shelves are strips of card, the supports are the ends of strips of the same width cut into a small triangle.  The whole lot Shellac'd, then painted.  (Remember what is in this photo.)

The paper underneath has the images of the front covers of the periodicals.  They have been copied into a Silhouette file, and minimised so that each has the same width.  I did not know what the original sizes, and I was not going to try and find out, (Come On!  It took long enough anyway.)  This still meant that all the periodicals were a different size.  Just what I wanted.  The same had been done for the newspapers and the headline strip at the bottom.  There were cross lines to indicate wires to hold them in, as on the original kit headlines, but mine were too thin to be printed.

The newspapers were stuck down with Pritt stick, once having been cut out.  The periodicals at the top hanging down, obviously pegged to a line, are held in place by double sided tape.  ((You have to stick it on the kiosk first, with the width you need, then remove the backing, then cut off the excess.)

In the top picture you will notice three of the same periodical Pritt sticked to a piece of card.  These are tiny.  You put the Pritt stick on the end having cut out your tiny sheet, you then lick the end of the dentist's prong and the surface tension on this means you can pick up your tiny sheet and put it where you want it.  It can be moved with the knife until pushed down hard.  The more glue, covering part of the sheet you put down and add the next one.  There are three at the top.  The card was then cut at the end of the last one.  You may notice a tiny strip of cardboard, and a tiny square on the top left of the paper.  Squares like this were cut off, a blob, of PVA was then put on the shelf, the tiny square put there, more PVA on top, and then the card with the periodicals, put on it so that they lean back.  Hopefull, this will give the impression of bulk.

The back finished.  Yes, there are books.  These are old ones of my mum which have been put in my patent miniaturizer.  Strips of paper, sort of measured, coloured with felt tips.  Card cut to approximate sizes.  PVE dob on the end of the strip, white card attached.  Paper folded over, cut to size glued into place.  Glued on the shelves there.  Really they should be standing up, and there should be more of them, but I thought, they look more impressive this way.  (Ok, I am showing off.)

As seen from the front.  Yes the newspapers should be folded, but I was impressed you could see such detail at such a small size.  Looks like a Boys Own on the far right.

Lower down, so you can see the top shelf.

This is where it will be on the layout.  There is no room on the platform..  It will be central between the two windows.

I still need to decide on the Manager of the kiosk, although I do have the lad who will have a tray to sell papers on the platform.  He will have to wait though.  Also, I need to put the 'W. H. Smith's' logo on it.  (Must remember.)

If you have been, thanks for looking.

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Somewhere, buried in the archives of the BBC/OU is a very interesting programme about how a combination of genetics and acclimatisation fit people to cold or hot environments. It stuck in my mind because it involved sending some poor guy from Nigeria to work on a Scottish trawler, and monitoring his physiological responses. What I can’t recall is whether they sent a Scot’s guy to get roasted in the blazing heat. 
 

I once did an ‘outward bound’ type course with a guy who ran fisheries on Lake Victoria and he turned a worrying sort of very dark blue colour when it got really cold. We built a decent fire and he practically sat in it all evening, and then set up his sleeping place in what we all thought was dangerously close to the embers. He was fine next day, thankfully.

 

 

I watched a program on the training of Marine?/SAS officers out on Dartmoor.  There was a guy from the West Indies who did not make it through, he was sent home, because he could not cope with the cold.

I knew a guy from Nigeria whose job is at Waitrose HQ in the freezer department of the stores.  He works inside the freezers.  He seemed to get on fine, thick warm coat though, plus hat and thick gloves.

Just checked my dates, it is neither the 26th or 28th March 1895, but the 21st.  Just read the days papers!

I am not the one to say do not run two projects at once, so I would say that this looks a good second project.  You need something to do while the 'paint is drying' on the shed project.

11 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

40F is around 4.5C. That's T-shirt and shorts weather! We had -16C one night last winter and back around 2010 it was going down to -23C overnight and never went above 0 for days! 

 

Jim 

I had a friend who came from near Stornoway.  He turned up one day when it was about 4.0C in his sandals.