ChrisN

9 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

Merry Christmas everyone! I hope you've had a good time and got lots of nice new railway things!

 

I've got a couple of new bits coming out for you this week, including something that I'm sure will make @ChrisN very happy!

 

 

A nice LBSC horsebox is on it's way to Oak Hill Works, along with a few other bits, including some new locos, I expect I'll have one of the printers going all day tomorrow to get things ready to release for you!

 

Thanks for looking in, and for all the support so far!

 

Gary

Just too late for Christmas.  🙂

I believe/hope something from your shop is wending its way to me for Christmas.  (We had Christmas a weekend ago, yesterday, tomorrow and Thursday.  This is the fun of having three sons with families and seeing them at different times.)

This will either have to wait for next Christmas, or much more likely I will order it as soon as it is on your web site.  (Well, soon after it appearing.)

On 24/12/2023 at 09:03, brumtb said:

Wishing all who have visited and commented on my Birmingham meanderings a very Happy Christmas and a peaceful, healthy and productive New Year.

As a solo modeller I very much appreciate the cameraderie and expertise freely given on RMweb.

Tony

Happy Christmas Tony, and have a good healthy New Year.

Have a good Christmas and hope all goes well in the New Year.

Merry Christmas to you Shaun, and all the best for the New Year.

I assume you actually have snow, we have record high temperatures, about 15 degrees.

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

You could be right - she does nothing by halves!  Seems that Sgt Roberts has a lucky escape 🤪

Mike,

Sgt Roberts might be the only policeman in Traeth Mawr, but if he blows his whistle, then two [porters from the station come running, two more from the Twll Du, and a couple of fisherman.  I think they could probably handle Blanche.😬

1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

Merry Christmas, Chris, to you and the inhabitants of Traeth Mawr and its visitors.

Also thanks for your support and advice during the last few months.

Nick,

Merry Christmas to you as well, and I hope everything goes well for you in the New Year.  Give me a shout if you need anything.

4 hours ago, Northroader said:

No, I’m just totally enamelled, just to put a gloss on it.

Hi,

Glad you are enamelled with it, I was told though to always use a satin finish.  I can just about make one train of 4 wheelers, but eventually I should only run four or six wheelers, with the occasional bogie, but they will be GWR, so I am not sure there is much I can do about that.

15 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Mr Price, kindly pass my appreciation to the contractor. We are indebted to him for maintaining this inspiring chronicle.

 

As for yourself I am worried and a little puzzled that your father remains locked in the cabinet. It is almost as if you do not seem to want him back out!

 

Dear Mr Mikkel,

I passed on your comments to the contractor, he seemed genuinely pleased that you found it inspiring.

As for my father, well, I understand that it is the contractor's wife that likes having him locked in the display cabinet, along with the down shelter and a Twll Du train.  Says they look 'nice'.  I think he does not argue about it as it keeps dad from moaning to him about the lack of a station, or a house, or, well, just about everything really.  He tells me that he is not far off from starting our house.  About time to as I am fed up of sleeping in the goods shed.  The platform is not going as well as he hoped so it might just get done when he feels like it, and he will not wait to finish it before starting something else.

He tells me that it is likely over Christmas that he will he tackling the 3rd Class Saloon, as it is small and he needs to wait for his Christmas presents before he can start our house as he gave all his mounting board away to his grandson to build a bowling alley, whatever that it.  Is it like skittles?  I know he has the drawings for a GWR coach, but has not sent them to the workshop yet to get cut, and is getting a GWR saloon ready as well.  Well, GWR.  I despair sometimes, but he says, well foreign passengers bring in money.

Anyway, I have to go, clocks to wind, tickets to sell, lamps to polish, he has locked away a lot of the staff as well.

Yours,

Master O. Price.

P.S. Happy Christmas

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

If Sir John is from Wilcote, you'd better warn the good people of Traeth Mawr. If his daughter, Blanche, is with him, she is very liable to paint the town red 🙂

 

It looks rather as if the flighty young Blanche has just got the idea of making a snowball but Sir John has sternly admonished her to "desist now, young lady - most unseemly".

Mike,

No, this is a different Sir Jon.  He comes from Groombridge.  If Blanche did try and paint the town red, well at least some painting would get done, but more likely, Sgt Roberts would intervene first, then your Sir Jon would have to bail her out of the lock up.

Hello. Owen Price here.

It has to be me, I am in charge while my dad is still locked in a display cabinet, and the 'Contractor' goes 'walk abouts'.  As you can see the Dolgelley train has arrived bringing Sir John to see the 'Young Englishman' for Christmas.  He cannot get hold of a horsebox so he has not brought his carriage this time.  (Any resemblance to his carriage on the truck behind is purely co-incidence, honest.)  He will have to use the 'Toy Train' (that is what we call the narrow gauge railway, and come to think of it so do they in their advertising), to get to Ty Mawr.  Better than trying to get up the valley in a carriage, I think anyway.  (I think his name is Sir John, he is some toff from England, whatever he is called.)

You will have to excuse the mess, the 'Contractor' leaves things around to make it look as though he is working.  I am not convinced though, we still have a leaking roof, it is coming in round the chimneys.

They are beginning to gather at Shiloh, the Tin Tabernacle, for the Carol Service.  I think they are waiting for them to finish praying.  They will wait a long time, there is always someone in there praying, they might as well just go in.

Well, nearly at the end of another year where not much has happened.  The Contractor wishes me to thank everybody who reads his news sheets he prints, and the help and responses, he says he is very grateful and it encourages him.  Me, I wish you would all tell him to buck his ideas up and get a move on.

So from me, and him, Happy Christmas and have a good New Year.

It was with great sadness that I learned of Adrian's death.  He said at the beginning of his thread that he had returned to modelling on his retirement.  You would not think so, as he had exceptional skill, going down to the Pound Shop and buying something and turning it into a model.  I was continually amazed.  He started in rural Kent and then after a two layouts did a scene near Waterloo, a grim city scape completely unlike anything he had done previously and pulled it off amazingly.

I asked him once what his occupation had been, and he replied that it was a Sign Writer, one where you painted directly onto the sign with your wrist supported.  (I cannot remember the name of what the support is called.)  He was obviously a man of talent.

He was always helpful and his comments always came with his gentle sense of humour.

I will miss his presence on my thread and the other threads that I follow.  My thoughts and prayers go out to his family.

Happy Christmas to you both, too.

This is very sad news, my thoughts and prayers go out to his family.

Yes, Happy Christmas,

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

Righty oh then, first draft of first section for feedback, please.

 

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Welcome to the pre-Grouping forum! 

 

This forum is a particularly lovely corner of the internet, and is filled with particularly lovely people; you're very welcome here.

 

This thread is to help lower the perceived bar to entry for those wishing to model Britain's railways before 1923. In it, you can find a quick overview of the period, historically and in terms of modelling 'Eras'; some of the primary companies, and sources of information and suppliers for those companies. 

 

I hope it helps, but if you have further questions please do just ask. We're all learning here!

 

What is "pre-Grouping"?

The 13.7 billions years of the history of the universe before the 1st January 1923!

 

At that date, the Railways Act of 1921 came into effect. This brought the Britain's 120 independent railways companies together, grouping them as the 'Big Four' which which you're probably already familar. These were the Great Western Railway; London, Midland and Scottish Railway; Southern Railway and London and North Eastern Railway2 - names which we shan't have to worry about again :) 

 

The subsequent Transport Act nationalised the Big Four, bringing them all under the umbrella of British Rail. Do not be surprised if local parishioners view Grouping as a a disaster (from a modeller's PoV), and if mention of Nationalisation is not universally approved of!

 

Okay, so what is pre-Grouping?

To get it out of the way, it is 'model railway era' 1 and 2, as per Hornby*:

*Bachmann has chosen 9 eras, not splitting post-1995 privitisation.

 

The article linked states of pre-Grouping "Eras 1 and 2 are harder to model because of the lack of prototype information available and ready-to-run products, a lot of kit-bashing and scratch-building would be required to build a layout during this time". This is, in short, not true. We'll cover more on this below, but you can set any of those fears to rest. If you want to model the pre-Grouping world, there aren't any practical reasons that should hold you back.

 

In general, what we need to know about the Era System is that it is of very little use to the pre-Grouper other than as search filters on the big online retailers, and so won't be mentioned again.

 

Right...so what's pre-Grouping?!

It's the widely used, if not very useful, umbrella term for the railway companies of Britain for the first century or so of their existence and those who model them. A list of the Big Four constituent companies is here, by parent companies, and here. These should give you some idea of the wonderful variety of inspirational prototypes available.

 

Why should you care?

Because it's a wonderfully rich source of inspirational prototypes to fire the imagination and drive incredible creativity, research and modelling skill! Doesn't have to be though :) You can go solely RTR (we'll look at a quick worked example later), and still reap the practical benefits. This include but are not limited to:

• Aesthetic - beautiful liveries on well maintained vehicles
• Intricate - trackplans were not particularly well rationalised, leading to a lot happening in a small space....like wot you find on model railways.
• Diminutive - the earlier the rolling stock and locomotives, the smaller. Small stock, short and low platforms, tight radii - ideal for model railways!
• Different - each company had its own style of...well, everything! And each is distinct from later practice. 
• Story-telling - because of all the above, pre-Grouping layouts can be wonderfully immersive, and excellent narrative playgrounds.

Why might you move on?

Honestly, having got into pre-Grouping modelling only recently and laregly by following practical considerations, the only 'downside' of modelling the period is that is gives really direct feedback. The more you put in, the greater the payoff. This is because of the levels of research one can get into if you choose to - whatever your interests, there's a way to investigate and integrate those into a model railway. Even if that doesn't interest you at all, for sure it limits your options to some extent but it absolutely doesn't bar you from becoming a 'pre-Grouper'! There are no barriers higher than modelling any other period, and a great many benefits.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Initial revision will: 

• add some pretty pics (suggestions most welcome)
• tighten up - I think it's probably about 2 x too long
• start getting the next sections together
  • main pre-Grouping companies, their societies and suppliers, and  - with your assistance, cos we've all made different desicions on this - some possible pros/cons for each.
  • general resources
  • SECR example layout

 

 

That seems to me to cover all the bases.  I am not sure how you could shorten it, it did not seem overly long to me.

Station nameboards, or similar.

7 minutes ago, Citadel said:

Aargh, so many scissor crossings….  The issue from my side is that I’ve never built track (and suspect that if I did it would be the weakest link re: smooth running). Also the expense and added complication (not to mention the time and learning curve involved as well).

 

Confession time, was hoping to just get away with two simple crossings as per the drawing below (same in the bay platforms but here haven’t changed the drawing yet).

 

Can still change engines from the centre lanes and leapfrog a slower train parked elsewhere on the platform.  Lose some flexibility but wonder whether this is a time to be a bit pragmatic in the interest of maintaining momentum

 

Remember the track itself isn’t really that visible from the viewing angle. 
 

Interestingly the modern Carlisle has no crossings at all in the platform area.

 

Welcome comments, am I being a bit short sighted here or is pragmatism a virtue given all the other challenges I face….

I would think that the crossovers would be just that between the lines.

It would seem sensible to keep the momentum, what you do not want to do is get bogged down with something, then lose interest and give the whole thing up.

Do people unstick and move track after it is laid?  Yes often.  This is the advantage of using PVA, as if you soften it with water, move the track and then pin it in the new position.  If you have not lifted it, just moved it when it dries it will stick again.  It is always worth not ballasting until you are completely happy with the track position and how it all runs, (says he who has not ballasted his layout yet).

You would think I have not done any modelling recently.  This is not quite true but I have not had time to do much.  I have been struggling with the flashing on the chimneys.  I started by using thick paper, as advised by others.  I thought it would be best to paint the paper first, and then cut the shape of the flashing as it was being put on the chimney.  That did not work, as the paper was too damp.  I then cut the paper before I stuck it on.  This did not work as again it was too soft to hold its shape, and even though I had painted it, the edges became white.  I then decided to try thin card, so I took a long 2mm strip and cut notches in it, then took it and painted it with shellac.  I left it on the paper I used as a protection for the board underneath and did a couple of other things.  I went back a couple of days later and it was not there!  Either, 1) the roving gateway to another universe which inhabits my house, which removes things and then a few days/weeks later puts them back in the same place or another random place around the house, had struck again, or 2), it had stuck to my fleece, and fell off somewhere in the house.  I think it is (1), but either way I doubt if it will turn up at least until I have made another one and painted it, with shellac and grey paint.

So, I was encourage how well the miniature papers turned out and decided to try and produce a name and notice board for the Tin Tabernacle.  These were duly made out in word, and then put into Silhouette Studio the reduce to the correct size.  I thenstuck them on using Pritt Stick.  (A hard stick of glue for paper.)

If you cannot read the notice you could well be late for the meetings, but even if you can you are likely to be the best part of 130 years to late anyway..  The name appears to be not there, I think I got too much glue on its surface.  Next time I print something else I might relace it.  (I have since finished painting the bits I have missed earlier.)

You may remember that I was looking for something cheap and clever to use as downpipes.  In the end I bought some Ratio gutters for the station building, and guess what, there is an excess of downpipes.  Firstly I had to warm them in water and bend them so that they would through the water away from the building.  (Nothing fancy like proper drains.)

They needed a bit more work after this, and yes, I did finish the painting.

One down pipe in pipe in position.  I did one the other side as well.

I am not sure if I will have time, (or inspiration), for a Christmas post, so if not, have a Happy Christmas.

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Pre-grouping is a vast area, with (?) a couple of hundred companies, but of course there are the big ones like the Cambrian, and er, the LCDR, and er, LSWR, with many feeder lines to the Cambrian, (did I mention that), like the GWR and LNWR.  It would be very easy for it to become large and unwieldy. 

Where would you put it? In the blogs, would anyone read it?  If it was in 'Pre-Grouping' then people would be already looking towards it, if it was in another part of the forum,( umm where?), it might attract people.

I do like the idea, it is just how it could be worked out which is more 'interesting'.

9 minutes ago, Citadel said:

Quick question, what thickness of cork sheet is recommended and any guidance about glues to use etc.  have read somewhere that PVA soaks into the voids and reduces the sound deadening properties once it dries.

 

Advert of the day 🙂 (again from the National Archive link above.  Not sure you could get away with this claim today…

 

Love the adverts.  I will eventually need enamel ones.

My Nan, probably pre WW2, went to the doctors as she had boils come up.  He told her to drink stout.  She then drank a bottle of Mackeson every day for the rst of her life.  The boils went.  My dad said it was because there was iron in the stout, so who knows?

There was a time in hospitals that on the ordering list, I actually remember this, there was light ale, stout and sherry.

36 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Ah - but which generation of Southend Pier Stock ? ( Most of the last generation 'A' set is now 'grounded' as deck shelters at the pier head.)

Not sure what the name of the series is but it is the stock that ran in the 60s.

I have voted.  There are a few I would get, no Southend Pier stock this time.  I could model myself and my mum and dad on it.

13 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

I think that's why I need radiotherapy!🙂

Nick,

I am glad you can still laugh about it.

Very ingenious.

When your wife finds out there is a hole in your downpipe................. 🙂