Crewlisle

Digressing from the current topic of the legal side of the project & T&Cs, I want to get back to a couple of practical questions about the model. 1. May I suggest that all models are fitted with wheels without traction tyres. If someone is shelling out £600 plus on a model then it must be odds on they do not want traction tyres on their APT-P. By all means include a set of wheels with traction tyres for the relative few who still use them on their locos. 2. There is much talk on this forum about 'buying & swapping' different coaches to fit in various combinations of the APT-P. I have a Bachmann Blue Pullman with a power car at both ends. Electrically it is split into two 3 car halves so making it more difficult for anyone wanting to change it to an eight car set. Are the electrical connections between cars similar to the Blue Pullman & with the APT power cars in the middle, will it be more difficult from an electrical point of view to buy additional cars & just swap them around? Peter

A question about the 10 & 14 car APT sets. The 10 car set has only one power car & if it is pushing 5 cars, all tilting, surely they have to be quite heavy to stop the dynamics of tilting derailing the front units? Similarly for the 14 car set. On these longer sets, all the cars will have to be heavy to stay on the track when being pushed & tilting. The motor(s) in the power car(s) will have to be very powerful & heavy for traction. Can they cope with model inclines or even a scale Shap or are they just fit for the 'Flat Earth Layouts'? Peter

Make a list of what you want from your layout. When I started my 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' many years ago I wanted to model the WCML based on visits to Rugby & Crewe trainspotting in the 1950s. The space I had available was 2.6M x 2.3M. To model what I wanted my layout is on three interconnected levels. My requirements were a double track main line on the middle level representing the WCML; a 4 platform high level terminus to accommodate 6 coach expresses; a steam shed with turntable; separate steam & diesel sheds; a turntable for the steam shed; a goods yard on the high level & on the through station on the WCML; a reversing loop which goes under the baseboards so trains can leave the terminus & come back again; no space for a fiddle yard (they are wasted spaces) so I incorporated a cassette exchange system on the reversing loop which runs down the inside of the operating well. I store 14 cassettes on a rack under the baseboard which are easily changed/replensished from stock boxes as required. I have a total stock of 52 locos, 65 coache/parcel coaches & over 100 goods wagons. In later years visiting Crewe & an 'all line railrover' with my son in the early 1980s, I became interested in AC electrics. The WCML now has OLE with the normal AC electrics. My timescale is from the mid 1950s to the mid 1980s with Stanier Pacifics, Black Fives, blue & green diesels, AC electrics & finishing with the APT (to be replaced with one of the new DJM Crowd Funded APTs). I am the first to agree that it is not prototypical but it entertains with something for everyone. I converted to DCC 10 years agoafter hearing a sound fitted Class 40. At exhibitions I have a minimum of 2 trains running & sometimes as many as 4 running simultaneously. That is why it has been at the NEC five times with my final visit due in 2020. My advice is that you list what you want on your layout, sketch your track plan then go for it! Peter

I may be considered to be a bit of a Phillistine in the way I look at the APT-P, but my 00 gauge exhibition layout 'Crewllisle' covers the WCML from the mid 50s to the mid 80s. That is from Stanier Pacifics, Black Fives through green/blue diesels, OLE, AC electrics & finishing with the APT. My Hornby 5 car APT-P is just long enough to fit in one of my standard 1370mm cassettes. That is the reason I am buying a 5 car set, not prototypical, but will represent BR's ulltimate AC train & be the subject of much discussion at exhibitions. Oh to have a layout to run a 14 car APT which might be the best value for money but not practical for 99% of layouts! I am prepared to pay 'over the odds' for an iconic model to actually run on my layout. Peter

When I built my 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' many years ago, cork underlay was very expensive when money spent on hobbies was difficult to justify. My simple solution was 1.5mm polystyrene wall insulation. Rolls of it were dirt cheap. I more or less covered most of the baseboards then laid the track. When the track was laid it was easy to cut the shoulder before ballasting with real granite ballast. After a while I noticed that when bits of ballast were knocked off, white polystyrene was showing through. This was easily remedied by masking the track bed & spraying the track with a mid grey followed by a quick pass down the middle of the track with Humbrol track colour + other areas individually weathered. Most of the track work has been in position for over 35 years & apart from touching up areas damaged by track cleaning, etc., it has stood up well to transporting to exhibitions. Peter

Nicolas, How about this for a starter for ten? This is my 00 gauge 2.6M x 2.3M DCC exhibition layout 'Crewlisle' on three interconnected levels. You would never get bored with this as you have so many operating options. Forget about computer generated plans & do it the old fashioned way. When I designed & built it almost 40 years ago, I wrote down what I wanted. A double track main line representing the WCML together with OLE & a through station; a terminus for 6 coach expresses; steam & diesel sheds; turntable; goods yard & reversing loop. I consider fiddle yards wasted space so I incorporated a cassette section on the reversing loop inside the operating well. See my posts in 'Modelling Questions, Help & Tips', subject 'Anyone making laser cut cassettes? Post 13 & 17 on page 2. I have sent you a PM with a copy of a detailed answer I gave to someone 15 months ago with a similar question. Peter

Yes it did. I wrote the article because all the cassettes I had seen on layouts had aluminium angle for the rails at dead end fiddle yards. I wanted to show that cassettes could be incorporated in the actual layout by using actual rails to save space in lieu of a fiddle yard. By using cassettes you can have as many locos/stock as you want by every so often changing the cassette contents from your storage boxes. With the attached plan of 'Crewlisle' you can see where it fits in. The layout, 2.6M x 2.3M, fits my second bedroom & with three interconnected levels. The bottom shorter baseboard (Shorter to allow the bedroom door to open!) hinges down to allow access to a built in wardrobe & the airing cupboard. When I designed my layout I wanted to represent the WCML from my trainspotting days in the mid fifties with stanier pacifics/black fives through green/blue diesels/electrics & finishing with the APT in the mid eighties. The terminus takes 6 coach expresses/Blue Pullman & the mid level 'WCML' has OLE. Whilst being a 'quart in a pint pot' & being the first to say it is not prototypical or the most detailed, it entertains. I run a minimum of two trains & sometimes as many as four simultaneously. With hidden crossovers in the the tunnels, trains can appear from any direction. I would be a rich man if I had a pound for every time a visitor at an exhibition said, "It's nice to see something moving!'. That is why it has appeared at the NEC five times (next time is 2020 & probably the last time on the exhibition circuit), Ally Pally twice & the Great Electric Train Show in 2014. Peter

Huggy, Why not make your own cassettes? It is quite straight forward & a lot cheaper than buying them. I have used these since I designed & built my 00 gauge exhibition layout 'Crewlisle' over 40 years ago which I have exhibited at the NEC, Ally Pally, The Great Electric Train show plus other venues in between. To up date the attachment, I now have 50 locos, 65 parcel/passenger coaches & a Blue Pullman. The attachment gives a length of 1371mm (4ft 6ins in proper measurements!) for the cassettes which form part of the reverse loop inside the operating well. Since then I have made two additional ones from PVC 'U' shaped pipe covers, each approximately 1550mm long to hold either a six coach express, Blue Pullman or HST. This allows me to remove longer expresses from the viewing area to prevent the layout looking overcrowded. These do not form part of the reverse loop but can only be entered from one end & carefully lifted on & off as they are a bit unwieldy to handle! As I say in the attachment fiddle yards are wasted space, especially in compact main line layouts like 'Crewlisle' ]CASSETTE - DCC.doc

The move from the Gaydon Motor Museum to Milton Keynes is both good news & bad news. The good news is that all the exhibits/trade stands will be in one location instead of the individual presentation/lecture rooms at Gaydon. There will be no delays due to lectures/seminars over running due to oversights by the Gaydon staff. I exhibited there in 2014, arrived there at 1530 on Friday afternoon as with normal prestige exhibitions to set up but only to be told I could not get access until 1800. My layout & also any other large/complex layout take about three hours to set up & test, so not a good start to the weekend! Some larger layouts take longer. We were still testing right up to opening at 0930 Saturday morning. I think this also happened last year. Once the exhibition got underway, the Hornby staff did a good job. The bad news is that anyone from Bristol, South Wales or the South West have extra travelling time due to having to use 'A' roads when leaving the M4 at Swindon although there is not much difference in the mileage. It is a pity that the GETS move east puts another top exhibition on the Ally Pally, Peterborough, Nottingham, Doncaster, York axis. Also that a venue could not have been found in the Bristol area or even the NEC. However, I suppose it was a commercial decision & the main thing is that all the exhibits/trade stands will be under one roof. I am sure the Hornby team will make it a commercial success & popular with us modellers wherever we live. Peter

As I commented before on this subject, the best way to do transition curves is by doing it by eye. Forget trying to draw them accurately on the baseboard either by calculation or computer programs. As they say in the ship building/repair business, "If it looks right it is right.". I did this on my layout 'Crewlisle' 40 years ago & at subsequent exhibitions many visitors have asked me how I got my transition curves looking so natural, Peter

When I built my 00 gauge 'Crewlisle' layout in the 1970s, I originally used Peco Simplex couplings & converted to these couplings whenever I bought any Hornby/Lima locos or stock with tension lock couplings. On my compact WCML layout I have three gradients of 1:28, 33 & 38 & also a number of tunnels/under baseboard tracks. Sometimes the Simplex couplings would uncouple coming down the gradient when transitioning to the level, which became embarrassing at exhibitions but were easy to lift off the track if any derailments occured in the tunnels. Although I think the Simplex couplings are simple & unobtrusive, I have now converted all my stock to the Bachmann style mini couplings for reliability with very few uncouplings. Converting once again to Kadees is out of the question because of the number of locos/stock I have & cost. But the main reason is, "Would the Kadees be compatible with my relatively steep gradient transitions at high speed?" Many of the layouts I have seen at exhibitions are on the level with no gradients & run at moderate speeds. Peter

I could not visit Ally Pally this year but having been on the exhibition circuit both as an exhibitor & visitor for many years, I can see both sides. Exhibition managers have a thankless task in choosing the exhibits to please the visitors & organizing the exhibition itself. I exhibited my layout 'Crewlisle' at Ally Pally last year & found it to be well organised with something for everyone. I thought the opening hours seemed to be a good compromise for both the exhibitors & visitors. What a lot of visitors do not appreciate is that some exhibitors travel a long way, especially when invited to such prestige exhibitions as Ally Pally or the NEC. I live in Plymouth & referring back to my timetable for last year: Friday: With help from my operators, load up van Friday morning & left home at about 1000. Arrived Ally Pally about 1600. I could walk faster along that North Circular Road! Finished setting up & testing about 1900. Find hotel, shower, change clothes then look for somewhere to eat. Sunday: Left Ally Pally about 1830. Joined the start of the M4 at Chiswick at 2000. Problem was that England were playing at Wembley at teatime & everyone wanted to use the North Circular when it finished! Arrived home at 00.30 & unloaded van. Finished unloading about 0100. Luckily my operators were able to take a day's leave on the Monday. Although it was a tiring weekend, it never felt that way as when visitors complement you on your layout or ask you questions like 'How did you do that?' or to see the joy on a child's face when you let him do some shunting or drive a loco on the main line (with one finger on the emergency stop button!) it made it all worthwhile. If you are not prepared to put in the hours & hard work, don't accept the invitation to exhibit your layout! Andy, There is a simple solution to there not being enough time to see everything, it is 'Forward Planning' & researching the layouts & traders attending. Every year our local club organizes a coach trip to the NEC on the Sunday. We arrive about 1100 which gives us 6 hours to see everything. When they first started many years ago I got fed up to get on the coach at 1705 & someone saying 'Did you see so & so?' & you missed it! What I have done for the last few years is to order an Exhibition Guide about 10 days beforehand & check out my 'must-see' layouts/trade stands. On the floor plan, write down your shopping list then hi-light your 'must see' layouts & traders in two different colours. When you have done your shopping & visiting your 'must see' layouts you can wander round & see everything else. Peter

Are Hornby still going ahead with their new Class 87 fitted with PLASTIC pantographs? Any plans to offer a metal sprung pantograph as a separate item? I was going to buy one but I think I will wait for the Bachmann Class 90 with a servo operated pantograph. Peter

Were there any BR layouts with OLE? Peter

Pete, I have 30 Code 100 Peco Electrofrog points operated by Peco solenoid point motors with stud contact on mini panels for operating them on my DCC 00 gauge 'Crewlisle' & rely on blade contact for polarity of the frogs. I have been exhibiting for 30 years & the number of point failures I have had over that time I can count on one hand. All have been on sidings! I say once again, Peco Code 100 points can be used straight out of the box with no additional wiring required! It might be different for Code 75 as the blade contact area is smaller. Peter

At our stage of life, both my wife & I have the philosophy on buying things like the APT or in her case clothes as 'you can't take it with you'. Being a WCML fan with appropriate WCML based layout, current locos on order are a Hornby 'Sir William Stanier', a five car APT to replace my current Hornby model & when released, a Bachmann Class 90. They will obviously fit in well as my layout's timescale is from the mid 1950s to late 1980s so at exhibitions I have something for everyone. Peter

The best way to do transition curves is by doing it by eye. Forget trying to draw them accurately on the baseboard either by calculation or computer programs. As they say in the ship building/repair business, "If it looks right it is right.". I did this on my layout 'Crewlisle' 40 years ago & at subsequent exhibitions many visitors have asked me how I got my transition curves looking so natural, Peter

With reference to the third paragraph, I was exhibiting my 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' at Bristol in 1997 when who should stop at my layout but CJF & his son Nick. He paid me one of the best compliments I have had when he said, "You have a lot of track & stock in a small space but it does not look out of place." We then went on to discuss for the next 15 minutes if I could fit a double slip at the entrance to the carriage sidings & goods yard to avoid a double shunt. My layout is freelance but I gained inspiration from CJF's plans, Peter

Roy, I am confident that DJM will give us an accurate scale pan or as close as possible. Hornby have rushed their Class 87 & obviously did not have time to design an all metal BW pan. Surely if you are paying over £600 for an iconic model like the APT you will want to actually run it? Yes, there probably will be minor compromises but certainly not like the clumpy pans on the original Hornby Class 86s, which many of us have replaced with correct Sommerfeldt ones! Peter

Is the pantograph vertically in line with the track & OLE like Hornby's or does it tilt to 5 to 10 degrees thus giving a small sideways thrust on the OLE? Peter

I am buying one of the 5 car sets to replace my Hornby model so it will still fit my cassette style fiddle yard on my layout 'Crewlisle'. I cannot understand some of these requests like opening doors; the majority of us modellers would never use it! On the majority of layouts the APT will be running near its scale operating speed & preferably on a curve. At exhibitions the main viewing side for 'Crewlisle' has the WCML passing through 'Crewlisle' Exchange on a 7ft radius curve. This will certainly show off the main feature of the model - the tilt mechanism. On the APT there are six main features you must get right; everything else is a bonus: 1. Dimensions & livery. 2. Close coupling like Bachmann's Blue Pullman. 3. Directional lights. 4. A powerful, reliable motor. 5. Use on second radius curves. 6. A metal, sprung pantograph like the Sommerfeldt ones. Please do not do a cop-out like Hornby on their Class 87 & make them out of plastic. Yes, they may be 100% accurate but cannot be used on OLE! This is the reason I will not be buying a Class 87 but a Bachmann Class 90 instead. It may come as a surprise to Hornby but 99% of the time, electric locos use 25Kv collected from OLE, not hauled around by a diesel with their pantograph down! Peter

I was delighted with the six ZTC258 decoders I bought for four years before they started to go wrong. On a similar vein, I have had many 'cheap & cheerful' Bachmann/Hornby decoders for almost 10 years which have performed flawlessly, in spite of many 'experts' running them down! Peter

David, I had a similar problem with Crewlisle when I decided to add the reversing loop a few years after the original baseboards were built. If you look at my track plan on Google, the reversing loop leaves the continuous run on the left hand side, goes down the inside of the operating well, under the end baseboard, under the high level goods yard to join the up main back at the left hand side of the plan. What I did was cut out 12mm ply 'U' shaped brackets, glued & screwed them to the right hand side baseboard timber supports where the track would run. When dry, I cut out the baseboard supports, added a 6mm track base then laid the track. It has maintained the strength of the baseboard for the last 38 years. I am sure your idea would be just as successful. Peter

Herbert, My 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' is built on baseboards built 45 years ago. Over the last 30 years it has been assembled/disassembled for many exhibitions & the baseboards are still as strong, flat & level as the day they were built. And what miraculous material did I use - Sundaela! Perhaps the main reason for their longevity is that the layout is in a spare bedroom. The frames are 50 x 25 softwood; external corners are dovetailed, glued & pinned; inside stiffener joints are cross halving joints, glued & pinned; the external frames are NOT cross-halved but retain their full 50mm depth along their length to retain their maximum strength. The Sundaela is 15mm thick & is glued & pinned directly to the framework. It has made cutting holes for motors, etc. & for inserting track pins easy. If I was starting again I would probably use 6 or 8mm ply. With Sundaela you require stiffening at about 300mm between centres, with ply about 500mm. To build Sundaela boards you require to be a skilful woodworker to cut joints & accurate assembly of the framework. These skills are in short supply these days! Peter

Colin, 7 years ago I was a relative new comer to DCC & the ZTC 258 was heavily advertised in the magazines at the time as it was the only 'inline' direct plug in decoder available. The Lenz equivalent was at right angles to the locomotive's fore & aft line - OK for the wider Continental/American locos but could not be used on the narrower UK locos. You imply that it was just one decoder, in fact it was all 6 of them! It is not just a 'fall out with ZTC', it is a question of them solving why they are defective. Obviously a fault in their design/programming. I have had a long correspondence with them going back over 3 years without resolution so they have had plenty of time to find a solution. It is not a question of 'sour grapes' or 'getting back' at Taunton Controls, it is the fact that I spent over £100 on some electronic equipment which failed after 4 years & the company is not trying to resolve the problem. After their first effort at solving the problem, I should have taken them to the Small Claims Court but after 4 years I did not have the receipt. If it was just a faulty batch, why didn't they replace them as a goodwill gesture & avoided all this adverse publicity? Peter