Crewlisle

My layout has not been used for sometime & am currently starting to bring everything 'back to life'. The one I have read conflicting suggestions about is small cylindrical point operating solenoids. They do not have polarity switches on them. I have been thinking of giving them a squirt of either 'Solvisol10' or WD40 whilst operating them a few times. Will this do the trick or is there something better? Peter

Red One, I don't know the exact size of the screws but I think it is odds on that they are BA (British Association) screw threads. Meccano construction kits also used these threaded screws & nuts. The thread sizes are numbered 1, 2. 3. upwards in a selection of lengths, though normally only even numbered screws up to about 12 or 14BA are used. The higher the number the smaller the screw size. Besides Hornby, a lot of commercial electrical equipment used to use them. Peter

Snowy 1051, I always thought that all BR standards & ex-pregrouping locos with painted cabside numbers were 8" high, except St. Rollox. Swindon & St. Rollox were always the odd ones out in painted cabside numbers. Swindon painted cabside numbers (both steam & diesels) always seemed to have a different font to everyone else (surprise, surprise!) & smaller. All LMR locos were 8", except locos repaired & repainted at the ex-Caledonian St. Rollox works in Glasgow. Their cabside numbers were 10" high & thicker. I have one of my Jubilees, 45687 Neptune, based at 67A Corkerhill, repainted with the larger numbers. They really stand out. During my trainspotting days at Market Harborough on the Midland Main Line, we would occasionally get a Scottish based Jubilee or Black Five on an express to/from Leeds. Before we checked our spotting books we knew we had 'copped it' so we were jumping around like mad things. Oh happy carefree days! Peter

21/10/20 Stock List Database You cannot beat excel spreadsheets for simplicity & being easy to amend. I use Excel for a 'Record of my Locos' & another for the 'Layout Operating Instructions' for my DCC exhibition layout 'Crewlisle'. On the 'Record of my Locos' I have 9 columns 1. Loco number. 2. Loco class. 3. Loco addresses. 4. Type of decoder fitted. 5. CV1 Setting. 6. CV2 Setting. 7. CV3 Setting. 8. CVs for 3 & 4 digit addresses, things to do, amount of weight added (if any) & any problems on fitting decoder or additional weight. 9. Any operating restrictions like 'Can only haul 4 Mk 1 coaches up bank'. My DCC system is a Lenz LH90 installed in 2008 with no problems whatsoever. The Excel based 'Layout Operating Instructions' are handy for a club layout or if you have additional operators at exhibitions who are unfamiliar with the layout. First of all I produced an A4 size Excel spread sheet of all my locos with their numbers, address, class & hi-lited locos in blue which had a common shunting function (eg F3 on many of the decoders fitted in my locos). See first attachment. Currently I am adding to/amending the list of locos on the first attachment. When I remake & print this sheet, I will once more be hi-lighting the common shunting function but adding a letter 'S' against locos which are fitted with sound. I then either copied or abbreviated the main loco operating instructions from the manual into Word & stuck them to the spare area of the Excel loco spreadsheet. With reference to the second attachment, I copied all the locos with sound & their sound functions onto an A4 Excel spreadsheet. Once more I either copied or abbreviated how to access the sound functions in Word & stuck them to the unused areas of the sound function sheet. I then reduced each sheet to about 65% (depends how many locos you have) to produce a finished size of about 180mm x 100mm. Stick them back to back & have them laminated. This gives a handy size card of instructions for operators who are unfamiliar with your layout. Peter

Junctionmad, Welcome to the 'Keep it Simple & Practical DCC Club'. It is good to know there are other modellers like myself who do not fit electronic gadgets just because I can (see my comments on the 9th October about converting my DC layout to DCC). I thought I had heard it all until someone mentioned about soldering all their rail joiners. Why make work for yourself when if it is installed correctly to start with you can have trouble free running for years to come? How many queries have you read in this 'DCC Forum' about polarity problems with all 'singing & dancing' point motors, something is not working & similar questions? The more electronic gizmos you fit, the more chance you will eventually get a problem from them. Once more, my layout is 47 years old & I have been DCC since 2008 with no real problems. It has attended 22 exhibitions, 7 of them since going DCC. Peter

PMW, Almost every reply I read in the DCC question forum seems that I am learning a foreign language with all these new gizmos which have appeared since 2008 when I converted from DC to DCC. I am sure many replies frighten prospective converters to forget it! As I have stated below, none of my point solenoids or live frogs have any type of polarity switching. The only 2 polarity switches on the whole of my layout are 2 Peco PL-13 slide switches mechanically linked to the point tie bar on my live diamond crossing. I wrote the comment below in reply to a similar question 2 weeks ago on another forum. It might make you simplify your requirements & save you lots of money but still allow you to operate how you want. Also, I have never bothered to solder any rail joiners to the track & have never had an electrical failures due to this. "Very interesting forum, except that anyone trying to decide whether to convert to DCC will be confused by all the jargon used & so called complications. Someone once said that all you need to do to convert from DC to DCC is to change your controllers, fit decoders in your locos, allocate their address & open all your isolating switches! Probably not that simple but I converted my 2.6M x 2.3M three level exhibition layout 'Crewlisle' back in 2008 using the Lenz LH90 with the LZV100 command centre control system. Almost prehistoric by today's offerings! However, with usual Lenz DCC equipment quality, it has worked without any problems & has attended 7 exhibitions. Since then I have added two DCC Supplies PSX-1 Circuit Breakers to split the layout into two districts one controlling the high level & the other controls the main baseboard & reversing loop. So that if a short is detected on the high level & shuts down, the main baseboard is still operating normally. The layout itself is 47 years old & half of the 30 Peco Code 100 points are fitted with the old style primitive small cylindrical Peco solenoids which still work OK. The remainder are controlled with a few of the newer Peco PL-10 solenoids & the remainder mechanically by use of 1.5mm wire from the inside of the operating well. All solenoid operated points are operated from a CDU & by the simple but reliable Peco studs mounted on mini track diagrams on the inside of the operating well. Some of the point solenoids also operate colour light signals via simple Peco PL-13 slide switches. Yes, I agree they just operate by 'slamming' over with no frog polarity changing switch but to upset the purists further, the only two polarity switches on the whole layout are to change the polarity of the live diamond on the double junction, converted from an Insulfrog diamond. They are both simple Peco PL-13 slide switches operated by the junction point. All of the old Insulfrog points & diamond have had their plastic frogs removed & fitted with hand crafted brass ones. The rest of the points are normal Peco Electrofrogs (not the Unifrog versions). None of the points have polarity switches for their frogs & all my points rely on good electrical contact between the stock rail & moveable rail. The number of failures I have had I can count on one hand. They were not important & only happened once at an exhibition. DCC can be as simple or complex as you want to make it. With DCC I can run upto 4 trains simultaneously which I have sometimes managed at exhibitions with 2 operators. Anyone trying to decide whether to convert to DCC, I can send you a copy of my article 'To DCC or not to DCC?' which appeared in Model Rail in October 2008." Peter

Robin, Yes, industrial electronics have moved on & will keep on doing so. But how much & how often are you prepared to spend on & fit the latest 'gizmos' just because you can? However, basic electric laws about size of wire & current carrying capacity do not change. As I said in my comments, DCC can be as simple or as complex as you want. The choice is yours but mine works with hardly any problems. Yes the basic principles are the same. Of course, there are more modern controllers with a lot more features available. The point I wanted to make was that the basic principle of DCC has not changed & my principle is 'If it ain't broke don't fix it'! On the other hand, if I want to add or update any of the electronics it would not be a problem. Peter

Very interesting forum, except that anyone trying to decide whether to convert to DCC will be confused by all the jargon used & so called complications. Someone once said that all you need to do to convert from DC to DCC is to change your controllers, fit decoders in your locos, allocate their address & open all your isolating switches! Probably not that simple but I converted my 2.6M x 2.3M three level exhibition layout 'Crewlisle' back in 2008 using the Lenz LH90 with the LZV100 command centre control system. Almost prehistoric by today's offerings! However, with usual Lenz DCC equipment quality, it has worked without any problems & has attended 7 exhibitions. Since then I have added two DCC Supplies PSX-1 Circuit Breakers to split the layout into two districts one controlling the high level & the other controls the main baseboard & reversing loop. So that if a short is detected on the high level & shuts down, the main baseboard is still operating normally. The layout itself is 47 years old & half of the 30 Peco Code 100 points are fitted with the old style primitive small cylindrical Peco solenoids which still work OK. The remainder are controlled with a few of the newer Peco PL-10 solenoids & the remainder mechanically by use of 1.5mm wire from the inside of the operating well. All solenoid operated points are operated from a CDU & by the simple but reliable Peco studs mounted on mini track diagrams on the inside of the operating well. Some of the point solenoids also operate colour light signals via simple Peco PL-13 slide switches. Yes, I agree they just operate by 'slamming' over with no frog polarity changing switch but to upset the purists further, the only two polarity switches on the whole layout are to change the polarity of the live diamond on the double junction, converted from an Insulfrog diamond. They are both simple Peco PL-13 slide switches operated by the junction point. All of the old Insulfrog points & diamond have had their plastic frogs removed & fitted with hand crafted brass ones. The rest of the points are normal Peco Electrofrogs (not the Unifrog versions). None of the points have polarity switches for their frogs & all my points rely on good electrical contact between the stock rail & moveable rail. The number of failures I have had I can count on one hand. They were not important & only happened once at an exhibition. DCC can be as simple or complex as you want to make it. With DCC I can run upto 4 trains simultaneously which I have sometimes managed at exhibitions with 2 operators. Anyone trying to decide whether to convert to DCC, I can send you a copy of my article 'To DCC or not to DCC?' which appeared in Model Rail in October 2008. Peter

I have been intrigued about all the suggested methods & materials to build baseboards to make them light, portable & durable, but £92 for a sheet of marine ply (Philou on Sunday) is going over the top! You only use marine ply for boat repairs or if it is liable to get wet. My 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' is on 5 separate baseboards built 47 years ago. Over the last 37 years it has been assembled/disassembled for many exhibitions & the baseboards are still as strong, flat & level as the day they were built. And what miraculous material did I use - Sundaela! Perhaps the main reason for their longevity is that the layout is in a spare bedroom. The frames are 50 x 25 softwood; external corners are dovetailed, glued with 'Evostik Resin W' woodworking glue & pinned; inside stiffener joints are cross halving joints, glued & pinned; the external frames are NOT cross-halved but retain their full 50mm depth along their length to retain their maximum strength. The Sundaela is 15mm thick & is glued & pinned directly to the framework without any plywood underneath or on top. It has made cutting holes for motors, etc. & for inserting track pins easy. If I was starting again I would probably use 6 or 8mm ply. With Sundaela you require stiffening at about 300mm between centres, with ply about 500mm. To build baseboards using 'Sundaela' boards you require to be a skilful woodworker to cut joints & accurate assembly of the framework. These skills are in short supply these days! Peter

Can someone recommend a suitable sound decoder & loud speaker to fit in the tender without having to hack around the inside too much as I want to retain the steam coal pusher. Peter

Why spend money on loco or stock storage boxes? Use what is normally available for free from offices - empty A4 copier paper boxes. With reference to the attached photos, cut the box down to roughly the same depth as the lid so that locos can 'stand' on the bottom, separated by cut strips of cardboard from the remains of the discarded box. At the front & rear of the locos use small pieces of foam or tear off small bits of newspaper & screw them up to act as pads during transport. For different length locos use foam packing to stop them moving about in the box. Most LMS, LNER & BR Pacifics have to be stored diagonally with suitable packing because of their length. Do a similar thing for coaches & freight stock except you put some bubble wrap on the bottom, lay the coaches/freight stock on their sides separated by cardboard strips, lay another piece of bubble wrap before you add the second 'layer' of coaches/freight stock & another layer of bubble wrap before you put the lid on. The coaches/freight stock are separated by cardboard strips cut from the rest of the discarded box. Using bubble wrap between layers protects the paintwork/transfers. Using this method is cheap & protects your stock. Only store a maximum of two layers of coaches/freight stock in each box. If you want, you can stack as many boxes as you like on top of each other in a cupboard. Write on the edge or top of the boxes what locos/stock is inside. Some of you will say that exposing the paintwork/transfers on your stock to cardboard will cause a 'reaction' & damage their finish. Let's just say that after over 30 years of exhibiting 'Crewlisle' at exhibitions with a large number of locos & stock stored in this way when not in use, I have not had one item damaged or paintwork affected by them being in direct contact with the cardboard. At exhibitions It also makes it easy to remove & replace stock. Peter

I have started to create new nameboards for my layout. I have completed the actual name but want to buy some 60mm x 40mm self adhesive vinyl stickers or waterslide transfers as per the photo. Anyone know where I can buy them? Peter

My 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' is on 5 separate baseboards built 47 years ago. Over the last 37 years it has been assembled/disassembled for many exhibitions & the baseboards are still as strong, flat & level as the day they were built. And what miraculous material did I use - Sundaela! Perhaps the main reason for their longevity is that the layout is in a spare bedroom. The frames are 50 x 25 softwood; external corners are dovetailed, glued with 'Evostik Resin W' woodworking glue & pinned; inside stiffener joints are cross halving joints, glued & pinned; the external frames are NOT cross-halved but retain their full 50mm depth along their length to retain their maximum strength. The Sundaela is 15mm thick & is glued & pinned directly to the framework without any plywood underneath or on top. It has made cutting holes for motors, etc. & for inserting track pins easy. If I was starting again I would probably use 6 or 8mm ply. With Sundaela you require stiffening at about 300mm between centres, with ply about 500mm. To build baseboards using 'Sundaela' boards you require to be a skilful woodworker to cut joints & accurate assembly of the framework. These skills are in short supply these days! Peter

John. , There have been quite a number of posts on this forum quoting social distancing, but I think yours is the first to mention 'social groups'. Among layout operators, traders & of course visitors, about 25% are over 65. How could an exhibition be financially viable when social distancing is added? In recent days there has been speculation that no theatres or cinemas will be allowed to open until the end of the year. Peter

Andy, Forget Tracksetta curves or formulae for transition curves, you are building a model railway not planning the trackwork for HS2! Instead of Tracksetta curves, do it the simple & cheap way. Cut some rectangular pieces of cardboard or hardboard & then cut out an internal radius or outside radius of your radii required. Bend & pin your track to the outside or inside of the templates; it is not going to have kinks in it (only possibly if you come down to 10" radius!). If it doesn't fit, adjust the track/points as required. I have seen modellers saying about the complex formulae for transition curves - take no notice; they are not required. If you want reasonable looking transition curves from one piece of straight track to another do the following: 1. Make sure that the last rail joints on the straight track are about 150mm from where you want your curve to start from. 2. Carefully bend your track, gradually reducing the radius of the curve to the final radius. This could be from about 2500 mm down to your minimum radius of 500mm. Look along the curve to ensure that there are no kinks in it & it is a 'fair' curve.. They have a saying in the shipbuilding or ship repair business, "If a curve looks right, it is right!". 3. Of the many exhibitions I have atended with 'Crewlisle', I have lost count of the number of questions I have had about how I built such good looking transition curves. Peter

If you want 100% accuracy it is possible that the Jubilee & the Standard Tank in BR days will have been repaired/overhauled/ repainted at the ex Caledonian St Rollox loco works in Glasgow. If so, these locos will have the unique 10" high cabside numbers which you rarely see on Scottish based layouts. However, locos overhauled/repainted at other ex LMS works in Scotland (such as Kilmarnock, Inverness or Inverurie) had the standard 8" high BR cabside numbers. The WD Austerities were normally overhauled at Crewe Loco Works. As a trainspotter from the 1950s I can confirm that Scottish based Jubilees & Black Fives occasionally ventured as far south as Leicester on the daily 'Carlisle Goods' or St Pancras on the Midland Main Line. In the mid fifties there was a verified sighting of a Clan on a south bound express at St Albans. Sad to say I missed it! Peter

What are the blatant errors on the 87? Obvious, a rubbish plastic pantograph that would put a Thomas the Tank Engine to shame! What continental model manufacturer would dare to present a scale electric overhead model loco without a functioning metal sprung pantograph? Surely someone at Hornby should have had the common sense to have sub contracted Sommerfeldt to produce a metal pantograph - even if it added £5 to the cost of each loco? Peter

I accept it is completely out of exhibition managers control to see so many exhibitions cancelled or postponed in view of the Coroana Virus. However, may I make a suggestion. Some clubs have said that they are trying to reschedule their cancelled exhibitions, for example Ally Pally, to a later date in the year. No one knows how long this emergency will go on for. Wouldn't it be better for everybody if they forgot about the exhibitors to this years exhibitions & automatically invite them to their 2021 exhibition? All large exhibitions like Ally Pally & the NEC give invites to layouts years in advance. I was invited to the NEC for this year 4 years ago. This would mean disappointment to this years exhibitors & all current invites should be moved one year to the right. This would make planning easier for exhibition organisers. Peter

How many modellers would want to faff around with the correct valve gear settings in 00 gauge before any model moved?. I would think it would be o.ooooo1 per cent. The vast number of modellers would not even notice it, except wondering why nothing was moving!. In 1 gauge or larger the serious modellers would expect it, but 00 gauge, forget it. I would not expect Hornby or Bachmann to waste money on the suggestion or even think about it. The rivet counters have gone too far this time. Peter

Just a superficial observation, be very careful with the size of the cabside numbers. Locos repaired at St Rollox works in Glasgow (ex Caledonian works) after repainting had 10" thicker cabside numbers instead of the standard BR numbers which were 8" high. Very few Scottish based layouts I have seen have locos with these larger numbers. I spent my train spotting days in the 1950s on the Midland & WCML. When we saw a loco with the 10" high cab side numerals we all cheered & shouted that it must be a 'cop' before we found out what it was! Oh happy days. Peter

Look at Google for the track plan & photos of my 00 Gauge DCC layout 'Crewlisle' with three interconnected levels. Size is 8'6 x 7'6. Do what I did many years ago when starting my layout, I listed what I wanted from my train spotting days at Market Harborough in 1954 to 1960 with regular visits to Peterborough for the ECML & Rugby or Crewe for the WCML. That is a 4 platform terminus to take 6 coach expresses, steam shed, diesel shed, turntable, goods yard, connection to a double track roundy-roundy WCML with through station & small goods yard, portable catenary & reversing loop. If you have a terminus, trains leave so must have to come back! When planning the layout, I used Peco paper point templates where I wanted them & tried flexible track between them to see if it could be done. If not, I repositioned the templates until I could get a fair curve between them. Simple but practical. Before anyone rushes to condemn my layout for a multitude of reasons like being unrealistic or too crowded, the original editor of Railway Modeller & author of many track plan books Cyril Freezer stopped at my layout at the Bristol Exhibition over 20 years ago & after discussing it with me for 20 minutes said, "You have a lot of railway in a small area but it does not look out of place". That was praise indeed from the man himself! To me, fiddle yards are wasted space; use cassettes instead. I use 12 on a rack under the baseboard each in turn used as part of the reversing loop inside the operating well. Each is 1370mm long & hold a Class 47 + 4 coaches or 12 short wheelbase wagons. They are replenished from the stock box as required. The longest trains I run are 6 coach expresses, Midland Pullman, HST & APT. Two can be held on the reversing loop or in two separate 1800mm cassettes made from plastic cable conduit. Using cassettes you can run as much stock as you want. I run 52 locos from Stanier Pacifics, blue & green diesels, AC electrics & finishing with the APT together with 49 passenger/parcel coaches together with 112 wagons of various sizes. I am the first to admit that it is not prototypical or the most detailed but was built to entertain. At exhibitions my operating team run a minimum of 2 & sometimes as many as 4 trains/locos simultaneously. There are plenty of photos on line & it will be appearing at the NEC in November for its 6th appearance there & last exhibition as the baseboards seem to get heavier for each exhibition! Description of the layout appeared in Hornby Magazine HM84 in June 2014 & catenary (all portable & pantographs in contact with overhead wires) in Model Rail 192 in February 2014 or I can send them via PM including details of how to build the cassettes & other features of the layout. Peter

On the Hornby Forum last year on 16th June after the liquidation of DJM Models, I wrote a post about the possibility of Hornby bringing back their APT model. This was poo-pooed by a number of replies saying that it wouldn't sell, it would be too expensive, the actual APT only ran for about 4 years & other excuses for not bringing this iconic train back into production. On the 26th June I posted the following reply to some of their reasons: Naturally there is a mixture of positive and negative comments to my original post; unfortunately most appear to be negative. Yes, there were quite a number of variations to choose from the DJModels APT; I chose the 5 car version to fit my existing Hornby APT cassette on 'Crewlisle'. It did run as a test train of 5 cars as I have seen a photo. The two comments I do disagree with is that it would be too expensive and was only running for a short period of time 36 years ago. The example I quote to refute these arguments is the Midland Blue Pullman which first ran 59 years ago from 1960 until 1966 when the WCML electrification from Euston to Manchester/Liverpool was completed. Bachmann introduced their 6 car model in 2014 and I paid just under £200 with a rrp of £270 (I think) for the first run which quickly sold out. It was so popular that they did a re-run a few years later. An 00 gauge 5 car APT-P might be worth considering with modern motors, DCC onboard, lights and similar carriage connections to the Blue Pullman (plus of course the tilt mechanism). One thing which Hornby should do is please fit a metal sprung pantograph for those of us who have catenary to make it look right! That is the only reason I did not buy their new Class 87 because it was 10 out of 10 for the model but 0 points for the pathetic plastic pantograph. Peter

One thing not normally seen on Scottish layouts are the correct size cabside numbers on ex-LMS & some standard locos. Many locos repaired & repainted at St Rollox works in Glasgow had 10" high thick cabside numerals instead of the normal 8" high numerals. The Duchesses, Scots, Britannias, Clans, 9Fs & the ex-WD freight locos were all repaired at Crewe. Suggest you check your chosen locos against actual photographs. I spent my trainspotting days in the 1950s on the Midland & WCML. When we saw a loco with the 10" high cabside numerals we all cheered & shouted that it must be a 'cop' before we found out what it was! Oh happy days. Peter

I last valued my layout for insurance purposes a few years ago just using a general rule of thumb/guess off the top of my head. Over the last few days I have revalued my layout by listing every item individually or in the case of rolling stock by numbers of coaches, different wagons, etc. with their current replacement values, which is normally required for insurance purposes. I was shocked by the result. The current replacement value is about 33% more than my original rule of thumb/guess. Maybe it is time to check the value of your layout & check with your insurance company whether the value is included in 'Household Contents' or requires to be added as a separate item. Peter

I had a similar problem a few months ago on my DCC layout 'Crewlisle'. My layout is on three interconnected levels - a high level terminus, double track continuous run WCML on the middle level & coming off the 'down side' of the WCML is a reversing loop which goes under the layout & then joins the 'up side' of the WCML. Search for 'Crewlisle' on Google to see track plan. I use a Lenz LZV Command Station, LH90 handsets & an LK100 Reverse Loop Module. A few years ago I split my layout into high & low level (which included the continuous run & the reversing loop) using two DCC Specialities PSX-1 circuit breakers so that any short on the layout only shuts down that half & not the whole layout. The boundary of the two sections is at the double junction where the lines from the high level terminus join the double track WCML. They worked perfectly apart from one problem. After I had erected the layout & started testing, at the reversing loop I discovered that locos stopped at the first isolated break, when I pushed them past the break & heard the LK100 reversing relays ‘click’, then it moved as previously set. When it reached the other break it went straight through. After posting it on 'DCC Questions' under 'Reversing Loop Problem' I had some very useful & ultimately successful suggestions, especially from 'Dagworth' of DEMU. Because the LK100 & the PSX-1 circuit breakers were both 'polarity changers', they were in fact fighting against each other to change the track polarity. I then ran a supply directly from the Command Station (bypassing the two PSX-1s) to the reversing loop. Since then it has worked perfectly. Peter