Crewlisle

wombatofludham Posted Thursday at 12:45 All this talk about the pantograph, I wonder if those who have spoken to Bachmann about the servo fitted jobby know if it is possible to fix the pan in one position permanently? I'm planning scenic OHLE and most definitely don't want the pan rubbing the wires otherwise it'll snag when transitioning from the fiddle yard, so was planning to fix the pan just below contact wire height. Obviously that is doable with dummy pans, but this servo powered one is a different mackerel filled steam loco altogether. If an "approved" DCC sound chip is fitted and the servo function is maintained, is the height adjustable or does it keep going until it reaches it's full height? I wonder how much force the pantograph will exert on any catenary? I have had portable scratchbuilt catenary on the 'WCML' of my 00 gauge layout Crewlisle for the last 30 years. The continuous run mainline enters tunnels at each end of the viewing section. The pantographs are touching the catenary wire and where they enter the tunnels under the high level section, the wire has to rise about 10mm as in the tunnels the catenary wire is just 1.5mm steel wire secured to the underside of the high level for the pantograph to scrape against. All I have done is made special end sections for the wire to gently rise up. You should have no problem doing something similar over the last 200mm of your fiddle yard as my electrics are doing a scale speed of about 80 - 100 mph when entering the tunnels. I have never had any problems over the last 30 years. See attachments. .Catenary Wires.pdf CATENARY INSIDE TUNNELS.docx

One thing I have asked Andy about is the numbering of each post within a forum. He has said that it cannot be added to the new set up. It was so easy to refer to the comment number when, for example, you sometimes have over 300 comments on the Warley NEC or Ally Pally exhibitions. Peter

Nice model. I would have bought a Swallow liveried one; shame that they did not do it with a sprung metal Brecknell-Willis pantograph to run in contact with the catenary. Peter

Many thanks for all your helpful replies. I will contact my friend & tell him to log into RMWeb. From all your suggestions I am sure he will find one that suits his requirements. Peter

Can anyone give me some ideas on how to go about constructing a traverser for 00 gauge stock or direct me to a site? I personally have never built one but a friend of mine asked if I could help. Thanks. Peter

Expensive as in Command Station, Controllers & decoders. Peter

Summing up all the previous comments, you can make DCC as simple or complicated as you like. I converted my 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' from DC to DCC in 2008 when it was 40 years old using a Lenz LZV100 command/power station, two LH90 handsets & a LKl00 reversing module for my reversing loop. I retained my 30 Peco solenoid motors (20 of which are of the old original cylindrical design) operated via a CDU & 'stud' operation on mini track diagram panels. Besides the basic requirements for DCC operation, the only additional 'extras' I have fitted are two PSX-1 circuit breakers - one for the high level & one for the low level. If a short occurs in one, the other half is still operational. All track is Peco Code 100 together with Electrofrog Points & the last of my Insulfrog points I had converted to live frogs. The only polarity switch on the layout is for the live diamond. All points rely on blade contact as when I fitted most of them there was no such thing as 'frog polarity switching'. Over the last 10 years the number of point shorts/stalling I can count on one hand both at home & at exhibitions. My 50 locos still have their original capacitors connected & apart from the 10 sound decoder fitted locos, all decoders are a mixture of Bachmann, Hornby, Lenz or TCS. I have only managed to 'fry' two decoders! By today's standards, my set up is prehistoric! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I posted the above comment on 24 February in the forum 'To DCC or not to DCC?'. One further comment I would like to make is that articles I had read in modelling magazines before I took the 'plunge', gave the impression you required a degree in electronics! It is no more difficult than wiring up a DC layout, but a lot more expensive. Peter

Summing up all the previous comments, you can make DCC as simple or complicated as you like. I converted my 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' from DC to DCC in 2008 when it was 40 years old using a Lenz LZV100 command/power station, two LH90 handsets & a LKl00 reversing module for my reversing loop. I retained my 30 Peco solenoid motors (20 of which are of the old original cylindrical design) operated via a CDU & 'stud' operation on mini track diagram panels. Besides the basic requirements for DCC operation, the only additional 'extras' I have fitted are two PSX-1 circuit breakers - one for the high level & one for the low level. If a short occurs in one, the other half is still operational. All track is Peco Code 100 together with Electrofrog Points & the last of my Insulfrog points I had converted to live frogs. The only polarity switch on the layout is for the live diamond. All points rely on blade contact as when I fitted most of them there was no such thing as 'frog polarity switching'. Over the last 10 years the number of point shorts/stalling I can count on one hand both at home & at exhibitions. My 50 locos still have their original capacitors connected & apart from the 10 sound decoder fitted locos, all decoders are a mixture of Bachmann, Hornby, Lenz or TCS. I have only managed to 'fry' two decoders! By today's standards, my set up is prehistoric! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

OnTheBranchline, I am the owner of the 00 gauge DCC exhibition layout 'Crewlisle'. I operate a three level 2.6M x 2.3M 'roundy-roundy' layout with the high level having a 4 platform terminus for 6 coach expresses, diesel shed, steam shed with tiurntable & goods yard; the middle level is the WCML with OLE; the lower level is the reversing loop which goes under the main baseboards. I use 2ft or 5ft radius Peco Code 100 points. All my second radius curves are in the mid level tunnels with a 7ft radius curve on the visible section. All other visible track radii are plus 20 inches. If you want a lot of railway in a relatively small area, you have to be prepared to compromise against your ideal layout. Select 'Crewlisle' in Google & you will see what I mean. I have 50 locos, 65 parcel/carriages & over 100 wagons stored on cassettes which are 'slotted' in as required in the cassette exchange system on the reversing loop in the operating well. Peter

When I converted my 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' to DCC 10 years ago, I had a couple of problems to solve. I was exhibiting on average of once a year so I had to convey to my three other exhibition operators how to access each loco & other functions now I had gone DCC using a Lenz LZV100 Command Station & two LH90 handsets. I could not expect them to operate at an exhibition with only a one evening's 'refresher' course without a 'condensed' card guide on how the system works as I had 40+ locos at the time; now it is 52! See the two attached pdfs. I also find it useful if I have not used the layout for a while! I created the cards (see attachments) with a mixture of using Word & Excel on my laptop. This is the way to do it: 1. Decide what information you want to use & use your own abridged version from the official user guide/manual. 2. With trial & error enter the details in Excel (loco codes & sound functions) & Word (operating instructions) to all fit on an A4 page. 3. Print out your instructions for the front side, cut out & stick them with a couple of blobs of Pritstik or other paper glue on a blank A4 sheet in the format you want. 4. Repeat 3. for the other side. 5. On your printer, reduce each side down to the size you want & print or get a Copy Shop to do it for you. My card is 185mm x 105mm. 6. Stick them back to back making sure that everything lines up (ie the margins are the same each side). 7. Depending what other info you want with your loco codes (mine are F3 Shunting Mode), hi light them on the final size print. 8. Get your local Copy Shop to laminate them & cut to size. You only have to make new ones when you get additional locos. Peter DCC Operating Card (Front).pdf DCC Operating Card (Back).pdf

You may have problems with sections that use current detection if you use an RC snubber in those sections,otherwise no. If you have twisted the cable pairs of your bus at least 4 turns to the foot your are unlikely to need them at all though, even with a bus beyond 30ft. However for a bus over 30 ft, voltage drop maybe an issue, dependent on starting voltage, number and type of joins and the guage of the wire used. Further to my Comment No. 4, I have just read the above comment by Kal on 'DCC Bus Terminators' on 1/6/12. Both my 5 amp bus wires & all my droppers are twisted together as originally recommended to me. Could that be one reason I have been 'lucky' with no hardware failures? Peter

The cheaper option would be to either add extra lines to the existing WCML, adjust signalling, lengthen platforms or all three. I remember trainspotting at Rugby in the 1950s when Duchess Pacifics would regularly pass through with 16 coaches or Royal Scots or Jubilees with 12 to 14 coaches. Problem solved! Peter

Why does everyone want to over complicate DCC & frighten off potential users? I converted my 45 year old layout Crewlisle to DCC 10 years ago, useing Lenz & the only things on my bus wire are the 4mm banana plugs which connect the bus wire across the baseboard joints. Over the last 10 years I have never had problems with any of my DCC hardware. Peter

Geoff, Don't forget the thick 10" high cabside numbers if the locos were repaired at St Rollox as most of them were! Peter

This was my reply to a similar question back in September: My 8ft 6ins x 7ft 6ins DCC 00 gauge layout Crewlisle is on three inter connected levels with the mid level continuous run representing the WCML with OLE. To get all my design in such a relatively small area, all my track is curved where it passes over the baseboard joints so it would have been unwise to use the standard method of soldering track to copper clad Paxolin at the baseboard edges due to the track having to be cut at very shallow angles ‑ especially running trains at realistic speeds on the WCML! The slightest misalignment would be disastrous. The track & foam underlay (2mm polystyrene wall insulation) were laid over the joint, but the foam was not stuck 80mm either side of the baseboard joint. The track was cut 80mm each side of the baseboard joint with a razor saw and the short section lifted out and reinforced with thin card on the underside & ballasted. The rail ends of this section were carefully filed, rail connectors soldered to one end and sleeper chairs cut at the other end to allow the fitting of sliding fish plates. This allowed accurate and reliable track alignment & electrical continuity every time by having the track continuously joined with normal rail connectors. I have been exhibiting for over 30 years & have had no trouble with this method of connection. I even have three points on the high level & a pair of crossover points (not cut) on the mid level WCML fitted across baseboard joints in the same way. The baseboards themselves are aligned with cast brass hinges with their hinge pins replaced by 50mm x 1.5mm steel pins bent at one end to make them easy to remove. Peter

Pete, I am sorry my article came across the wrong way. I accept that the basis of our hobby is that everyone has their own preferences about their preferred scales, settings & eras. I apologise if I have upset anyone. With reference to my own layout 'Crewlisle', of the 30 points quoted in my Comment No.14 half of them are on the high level where the 6 coach expresses & freight trains are assembled, shunted & light engine movements take place - all obviously at slow speeds. . Phil, Thanks for that extract from Zimo. It is the first simple quote I have seen as to why it is a good idea to fit stay alive capacitors. However, because I have not had any real problems, I am certainly not going to retro fit my 52 locos with stay alive capacitors. Peter

I respect all you modellers who have a lot more knowledge of electronics & the technicalities of DCC than I do, but all this technical talk is what put me off DCC in the first place. When I sat down about 10 years ago & thought about what was required to convert my DC layout to DCC there was not much difference. Reading some of the articles in the model magazines gave the the impression you needed a degree in electronics! It seems we are going back to repeating this impression. If your layout is laid correctly with live frog points with polarity switching point motors (with which I vehemently disagree!), why do you need stay alive capacitors? It is another expense & complication which can put people off DCC. My layout is more or less the same design as I built 45 years ago. Over the years I have improved the scenery & added to my stock of which the latest addition (curtesy of Father Christmas) is Hornby's Duchess Sir William Stanier. I now have 52 locos (including Thomas the Tank Engine), 12 with sound decoders & the others with Hornby, Bachmann, Lenz or TCS decoders. Can someone tell me why do I have to spend lots of money & time to add 'stay alive' capacitors to all my locos? I have a total of 30 points. They were all initially Peco Code 100 Insulfrogs which I converted to Live Frogs & recently replaced some of them with new Peco Code 100 Livefrogs as the originals had worn out! The only polarity switch of any kind that I have on my layout is for my converted live diamond. Over the years of operating 'Crewlisle' & attending numerous exhibitions, in all that time the number of point failures or stalls on points I have had I can count on one hand. So why should anyone fit 'stay alive’ capacitors if they follow my layout principles? Peter

Furthermore, he was the best thing to come out of Swindon! Peter

When I converted my 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' to DCC 10 years ago I wrote an article 'To DCC or not to DCC' about how I converted my DC layout & locos to DCC which was published in Model Rail. This is the extract from the article of how I converted my Wrenn/HD Duchess to DCC: The real labour of love and challenge came from my Wrenn Duchess. Contrary to some so called ‘experts’, Hornby Dublo/Wrenn locos can be converted. I used a ZTC 4007 decoder together with a female-wired socket soldered to the appropriate wires. Eventually I hope to replace it with a sound decoder when available. This loco has a cast chassis, cast body and driven by a powerful, quiet motor in the firebox. It easily starts six coach expresses on my 1 in 38 approach to the high level terminus without slipping so it was worth the effort to convert it to DCC. To convert Wrenn or Hornby Dublo locos to DCC both brush holders, which pass through the chassis, have to have a plastic insulating sleeve fitted. The rear wheels were removed and after the old brush holders were carefully removed, the armature could just be moved enough to allow the existing brush holders to be drilled out. This has to be done with a hand drill and very carefully to avoid any damage to the armature. Keep the motor brushes, end plugs and brush springs. For the insulated brush holders I used ‘Evergreen Strip Styrene’ No. 226 which has an internal diameter equal to the diameter of the motor brushes and brush springs. The external diameter is 4.76mm and when drilled to this diameter is a push fit through the chassis. The insulated brush holders were cut so that one end was about 2 to 3mm from the armature and projected out of the chassis the other end by about the same. The orange and grey wires from the decoder were each soldered to one of the original brush holder plugs and the brushes, springs and plugs were inserted into the brush holders. The end of the plugs can be opened out so they are a tight fit to keep the springs and brushes in the holders. The track supply from the insulated wheels was soldered to the black decoder lead and a hole drilled and tapped 8BA into the chassis to pick up the red supply, ie the supply from the non insulated set of wheels which make the chassis live. Two things to remember when converting Wrenn or Hornby Dublo locos: If you dismantle the two arms of the magnet, it will probably require re-magnetising. After I had finished and was running the loco I noticed that I had to apply about 75% power to start and then throttle back to control the loco. I tried various settings on the CVs to improve the starting characteristics without success. I rang ZTC, told them the symptoms and they diagnosed that the magnet required re-magnetising. The last time I had this done was about 20 years ago but was told by ZTC that they naturally lose their magnetism. I ordered one of the new NE magnets from Tony Cooper in Accrington and the improvement in performance is excellent. 2. To assist the brushes to bed in, carefully file the ends of the brushes to the approximate diameter of the armature. As they bed in, control and power will improve. Peter

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction (no pun intended!). After a few attempts to get the headcode light working, I managed one end but the other end refused to light up, After using a powerful magnifying glass & light, I spotted a 1mm diameter plastic spigot, used to secure the black plastic light & central housing for the tail lights to the short stub upstand, protruding through the back. . When the body was replaced, the protruding plastic spigot was forcing the back of the cab away from one of the contacts, therefore no electrical contact for the headcode box. I carefully prised the plastic light housing for the tail lights forward so there was just enough space to cut off the spigot. I did not remove the light housing completely as I may have broken the soldered connection for the light, I then replaced the body ,head code worked, problem solved! Peter

I have a sound fitted Class 50 with all functions working OK except the light behind the headcode box. The red rear lights both work OK but the headcode box does not light up at the opposite end. Is there a simple fix? Peter

I never thought I would say this, but as a lifelong LMS/LMR 1950's trainspotter & current modeller I thought that overall the Southern Region Thornbury Hill (Stand D64) was better value for money than Liverpool Lime Street (Stand D65) for the following reasons: Thornbury Hill: Overall presentation was excellent. It was easy to talk to the operators. Scenery was excellent & operation was perfect. The imaginary timetable was obviously compressed with frequent stopping & non-stop express electric units. There were also steam & diesel secondary services & freight trains. Plenty for the serious modellers to admire & the visitors who just like to see moving trains. Liverpool Lime Street: I first saw Liverpool Lime Street when it first went to Warley about 20 years ago & it was just bare boards. With reference to this year's show, locos & stock were superb. Construction & detail of the station itself was in a higher class than Thornbury Hill but it lacked entertainment value. When the viewing public were three or four deep (as they were most of the time), all those near the back could see of the station itself was the frontage & roof detail, unless you were in the front row. As regards to the loco movements, all you could see was the station throat (just!), the sector plate & the run down to the station. May I suggest (as someone has in a previous comment) that you use a 'speeded up' timetable for big shows like Warley because visitors do not like waiting around for the 'Red Rose' departure in 10 minutes time as there is so much more to see in the rest of the hall! Also, to improve the view of the inside of the station for large shows, make the station wall on the viewing side portable & made of Perspex. For smaller shows use the proper brick wall because the crowds will not be as big & people can bend down to see inside. By making this wall interchangeable, visitors can watch all movements from the sector plate/rest of BR/carriage sidings right up to the platform buffer stops. Peter

This does not help you this year but as I have said before, buy a guide in advance, hi-lite your 'must see' layouts & in a different colour hi-lite the traders you want to visit. Add your shopping list to the edge of the floor plan. Simples! Peter

Don't be too hasty! I have a Lima HST & Lima Class 87 & have replaced their armatures with ones from Diesel Trains Ltd for about £12 each. It can easily be replaced so long as you can solder the new wires to the old pick ups iaw the detailed instructions. These new armatures give much smoother running & control on my DCC layout. So just using DC should be OK. Avoid Hornby track & points like the plague. They do great locos & stock but stick to Code 100 Peco track & points. If you are just starting out you will probably find that Peco Code 75 track & points are a bit too fragile. It is more realistic than Code 100 but you can disguise the height of the Code 100 rail by painting the sides of the rails, Peter

Karl, I have visited Warley ever since the first one both as an exhibitor & visitor. Before going as a visitor I buy a guide in advance, carefully hi-lite my must-see layouts on the floor plan in one colour & any traders I must-visit in another colour with my shopping list around the edge of the floor plan. Doing both of these will ensure you see what you really want to see.& any time left you can see all the rest of the show. Peter