mjkerr

37152 was complete, apart from the INTERCITY logos, it even had the swallows It was only planned for their to be five Class 37 in INTERCITY livery, but they had to be split into two sets of three Hence why 37152 did not have the INTERCITY logos (as only five sets had been supplied) Sadly someone didn't realise they were the same logos as used on Class 86 locos, but approval was not given for their use! There were only three Class 37/0 and three Class 37/5 in INTERCITY livery, used by InterCity : 37152 37221 37251 37505 37510 37685 Others were painted, but that was long after their use on the sleepers had ended (preservation)

I worked on the InterCity sleepers between 1992 and 1994 Pairs of Class 37 locos were used between : Edinburgh - Inverness Edinburgh - Aberdeen Initially there were two Class 37/0 (although the other two were nearing completion) in INTERCITY livery : 37221 and 37251 37221 had miniature snowploughs and round buffers 37251 did not have miniature snowploughs 37251 was named shortly after being painted into this livery Due to these being the only two Class 37/0, a third had to be repainted : 37152 Initially there were two Class 37/5 in INTERCITY livery : 37505 and 37510 Due to these being the only two Class 37/5, a third had to be repainted (to prevent snatching) : 37685 Now some history about how their use came about Prior to this a small fleet of Inverness based modified 47/6 had been in use However, they were to be transferred away and replaced by a general pool of pairs of Motherwell based Class 37 locos, and it was planned to replace these with Class 60 locos This would leave five Class 37 locos (later changed to three Class 37/0 and three Class 37/5) dedicated for InterCity sleepers, but Class 60 locos could also be used The majority of these locos were used on WCML freight On the sleepers Class 37 reliability became an issue Initially a spare Class 37 was held at Edinburgh (Millerhill) to resolve the issue, but even this became a struggle With enough notice a spare Class 37 was supplied from Motherwell, but any issue was usually only noticed as the northbound service was being prepared at Edinburgh and so no spare was supplied In the event one of the four Class 37 locos failed, then the Aberdeen would leave with one Class 37 to ensure the Inverness had two Class 37 Later Class 60 locos were used on WCML freight, but due to poor reliability of both Class 37 locos and Generator Vans (see below), they never saw their planned use on the sleepers There were also issues with the use of Class 37/0 and 37/5 locos together Due to the ballast on the Class 37/5 locos this resulted in snatching and complaints from passengers due to the poor starts from station stops This issue had been overlooked, as it was not an issue on freight trains, and as a result every effort was made to ensure they were not mixed which resulted in a third Class 37/5 loco carrying INTERCITY livery For the sleepers three Generator Vans were modified : 6311, 6312, and 6313 However, they were extremely unreliable and 6311 was dumped at Inverness after catching fire, while a decision was made whether to repair or replace it No sooner had this issue occured than 6313 developed a fault, and as a result it spent a lot of time on the Aberdeen service However, a few weeks later it too failed but was sent for repair Ironically on that service the sole Class 37 also failed (at Dundee) and so a Class 47/4 was summoned, the nearest being in Carlisle (arriving into Edinburgh nearly six hours late) With no ETH, this Class 47/4 was used for two weeks while this Generator Van was repaired At the end of 1994 it was decided to end the use of pairs of Class 37 locos, and Class 47/6 briefly returned from the 1995 timetable

As discussed in another topic, it's not actually that accurate (when compared to reference photos) I was considering it, not strictly correct for my layout, but for these reasons did not purchase one Equally, I have considered the standard version but couldn't find a suitable candidate for renumbering

The must-have modeller, will typically pay the premium price I can't quite remember how long the premium price discount has to be applied, from memory it is 10 weeks, thereafter the retailer can then sell the stock at any price they want This presents an issue for the modeller on what are expected to be high demand items, such as the Mark 2A TSO With respect to the Class 37/4, I don't expect there to be much too demand for 37406 (Triple Grey Distribution), but retailers may run out of 37407 (Large Logo Blue), and so prices may reflect that in 3 months time

All the raspberry ripple livery versions (InterCity, INTERCITY, and ScotRail) have these larger numbers and in what appear to be an incorrect font The same issue exists on their Class 156 in the original Sprinter / SuperSprinter livery The initial batch were delivered with SC prefixes and Inter-City logos They next batch were delivered with M prefixes and Inter-City logos, and later replaced with SC prefixes The final batch were delivered with M prefixes and Inter-City logos, and then transferred away These were the first coaches painted into the new ScotRail livery, so the logos were not changed It was only the Mark 3A sleepers that had their Inter-City logos either removed, painted over or adjusted For some reason they were all amended differently Equally, one of the sleepers 10680 was painted along with the TSO in the trial livery, but was not transferred out of West Coast duties as it was not a SLEP (no Pantry) and was subsequently repainted That just leaves the final phase of Mark 3A use, which was a variety of INTERCITY and those which had their logos painted over (along with some Mark 2F FO and Mark 2E TSO)

Collected my four Dapol Mark 3A ScotRail coach sets today, increased from the original three Amended my outstanding items with one additional Farish DBSO That just leaves me requiring the Farish 47/7 locos, which Mike advised should be available by the end of this year I can then use my current Electra modified DBSO, until the Farish DBSO arrive in early 2015 Roll on the autumn when I can start finishing off the layout... Too much to do between now, the summer and autumn During the summer I can then send 10 of the 47/4 locos for repainting, as I am out of the country for 3 months, so should all be completed when I get back As discussed with Mike, with only two Farish 47/4 locos and no new liveries on the horizon this is my only other option The only other item missing is the new Farish 37/4, which in effect completes the rolling stock

Scotland was full of mixed liveries in the mid to late 1980s, following the fire at Ayr depot Every attempt was made to keep the blue / grey and Strathclyde separate, but eventually they gave in as having units in service became a priority The only main exception was the Class 107, where such a mix was very rare

Equally, shame about the update on the Farish 47/7 and DBSO, and looking like a complete rake won't be possible until late 2015 Looks like my older 47/7s and Electra concerted DBSO will need to soldier on for a further year Equally, my two HSTs are still sitting incomplete, awaiting TGS and TRFM / TRSB Looks like one of these rakes will have to compromise with a TRSB instead of TRFM, and hopefully at some point the TGS I had hoped to have all this in place ready for the winter of 2014 On the plus side this will release the planned funds (sorry C&M Models) for immediate repainting of the other locos until the Farish items arrive That just leaves the revised Farish 37/4, which should arrive around the same time as these Dapol ScotRail coaches...

I too am impressed The Dark Executive Grey looks to be correct, as the earlier (darker) shade was used None of the ScotRail livery coaches ever had the later (lighter) falcon grey that was applied to those in INTERCITY livery An easier comparison would be with the Dapol InterCity 125 HST power car or InterCity125 coach As for the cantrail stripe, I have checked numerous photos and it is only slightly visible when coaches were clean However, most were not clearly visible due to the levels of dirt My only concern is the ScotRail map in the toilet windows It is too plain and as a result is more noticeable as missing the map Equally, these were applied as stickers on the outside of the windows Perhaps this would be a better option as a transfer

I wouldn't consider interest if the cost wa £10 per roof However, I myself currently require 30 such roofs for my loco hauled Mark 3A TSO, FO and CO coaches \ When you consider that is 1% of the minimum order required by Dapol...

The roofs are slightly different too, as in the BCK the toilet is next to the Guards area, whilst in the BSO it as the other end

I completely agree, using a UV marker pen is pointless now I use microdots They are intended for vehicles, but the batch all have the same unique code They can very easily be applied to N gauge stock For some items you need to apply one to the chassis and another to the body, as they can be separated Equally, unlike a UV marker, where you usually put the house number and postcode, the microdots do not need to be changed when moving house A bottle is about £15 and can easily be applied to anything and everything in your home The same with a TV, it is advisable to apply several microdots, as such items can be stripped and/or broken Once applied the microdot can be made easier to identify by covering in UV paint (also included in the larger pack)

Due to the lack of spare seats only half were converted from CO to FO 11908, 11909, 11910, 11922 went straight from CO to TSO As a result the existing First Class seat covers were not changed

Clearly I need to obtain a rolling stock list for 1984, as I had assumed the rolling stock list I have for 1985 was the original EC batch It looks as if the original batch was 12004 to 12031 (6 sets plus 1 spare), and these are the specific ones to carry SC abbreviations before the coach number Due to the Polmont accident 12050, 12051, 12058, 12061, 12094, and 12136 were presumably then hired-in, all except 12051 were then returned which in turn replaced 12010, and the later 12006) I agree, the ScotRail Mark 3 TSO coaches had refurbished seat covers only fitted, as they were overdue overhaul and their interiors were very grubby Equally, many of these seat covers were very poor fitting The seats in First Class did not receive new seat covers (as these seats were to be removed on return to InterCity) I am currently working on a list of the INTERCITY coaches that were hired-in in the final few months of Class 47 use So far I only have : 12010, 12066, 12067, 12069, 12121, 12126 (for some reason I missed 12010 in my original formation, but it is listed) There were eventually enough coaches for four rakes, and towards the end they got quite mixed up, some of the others : 3290, 5929, 6013, and 6103 Intially they were hired-in without any changes The Mark 2 coaches had the red stripes painted blue, and eventually the INTERCITY logos were painted over The Mark 3 coaches had the INTERCITY logos painted over This process was then changed to painting the red stripe blue and applying a ScotRail vinyl (to be removed) Some of the INTERCITY coaches when they were returned clearly showed where the vinyl or previous paint had been removed In some cases the coaches were repainted!

Found the issue, this was my complete list of all Mark 3A which had been allocated to Scotland I have now revised the list to show those from 1985 The above 5 coaches were allocated to PC in 1990 12050, 12058, 12094 and 12136 were transferred away from EC in 1985 after the final sets and formations, with one spare, were compiled following the FO to CO conversions The following year 12061 was transferred away, leaving no spares

My 1985 book and records match, all as listed at EC

Yet another DBSO (number unknown) : http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/682.jpg This one has the guard and driver text on the grey (rather than the others which have this text on the blue) From above, 9706 : http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7154/6742064019_8a8744dfa6_b.jpg The other side of 9706 : http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8288/7772033030_4da6326dbb_b.jpg This also confirms that some of the Mark 3A FO and TSO also had the "Scotrail" text applied, which was then replaced by the blue stripe and later "ScotRail" text version

In effect all those that were allocated to Craigentinny did Are you planning on releasing a set in Blue / Grey with SCottish numbers? As at 1985 : 11005 11006 11007 11008 11009 11010 12004 12005 12006 12007 12008 12009 12011 12012 12013 12014 12015 12016 12017 12019 12020 12021 12022 12023 12024 12025 12026 12027 12028 12029 12030 12031 12050 12051 12058 12061 12094 12136

See post #66, confirms that only one in Blue Grey livery carried "Inter-City Scotrail" Still not found any with "Inter-City ScotRail"

Given all the DBSO were painted into ScotRail livery by 1986 this was probably taken a few years earlier, as I found to be quite common for such books As yet I have still not found a photo with the "Inter-City ScotRail" text, just one with "Scotrail" on a DBSO in Blue Grey livery What year are you looking for? The main issue is such consists would change on a daily basis 1986 : EC601 9701 + 3295 + 6605 + 5716 + 5694 + 5673 + (PC601) 92061 EC602 9702 + 11905 + 12030 + 12014 + 12004 EC604 9704 + 11907 + 12015 + 12027 + 12051 EC605 9705 + 11910 + 12023 + 12025 + 12017 EC611 9711 + 11908 + 12012 + 12005 + 12021

It's easier to create a history of each loco which is what I have done As there were only 17 Class 47/7 RCH (HA/ED) locos it is quite easy However, I have simply listed what livery each loco was in at each year 1986 to 1996 (along with all the ScotRail based coaches as well) edit : I might add a sub-section on my website with details about each Class 47/7 loco, why I did or did not select them My details for Class 37 locos (based at Eastfield and Inverness) is much more detailed, thanks to the Class 37 group website It's a shame there isn't a similar website with such information for Class 47 locos (as class47.co.uk simply lists basic details) My original plan was for Glasgow Queen Street 1982 to 1996, however I noticed the track layout into Platform 1 changed twice between 1982 and 1986 Therefore to be strictly accurate Blue / Grey livery wouldn't exist However, I doubt anyone viewing the layout would actually be aware of the changes at Platform 1 Equally, by 1996 Class 158 units were operating the Express services, so having these two together really is pushing the limits I have now completed two Blue Grey Mark 3A sets, the final Blue Grey set of Mark 2 (air con) coaches will be completed when the latest Farish version is released The ScotRail livery Mark 2 and 3A sets I have will do for just now, until the Dapol version is available, along with the latest Farish DBSO I am hopeful Farish release the Mark 2 coaches (both 2A and air con) in ScotRail livery The rakes are looking rather redundant with a lack of 47/7 locos at the moment!

As far as I am aware only 47711 and 47712 carried Large Logo Blue, 15 April 1981 is the earliest I can find 47711 15 April 1981 to October 1984 (photo on 01 December 1984 in ScotRail livery) 47712 15 April 1981 to February 1985 Note that 47711 was repainted three times in ScotRail livery (many of the others were painted at least twice) Its second repainted was August 1986 (correcting the text on one side) and the third in 1990 (with no text and fully painted yellow headboards) Repainting of the ScotRail Express coaches commenced in late 1984 (with the Aberdeen based coaches and air-braked Mark 2) and was completed by the end of 1986 (I certainly don't remember any in 1987) By the start of 1985 half of the DBSO and Mark 3 had been repainted and all were completed by the end of the year Those that weren't completed by the end of 1986 remained in Blue Grey, such as 6607 and 6614 I have photos of one DBSO carrying additional ScotRail text, "Inter-City Scotrail" but I can't find any of Mark 3A coaches with this text in Blue Grey livery However two of the sleepers carried "ScotRail Sleeper" and "Sleeper" (with the Inter-City blanked out)

The CO had exactly the same seating arrangement as the other TSO However the seats were in better condition than the other TSO operated by ScotRail, as they were unrefurbished The CO was supposed to have high-density (76 seats in a TSO) but retained the traditional format (72 seats in a TSO) This difference became noticeable once all the WCML TSO were refurbished Although the seats were newer, they were to the revised 76 capacity, and the ScotRail unefurbished seats were starting to show their age albeit with the lower 72 capacity

Interesting, as I need to recreate a BSO(T) for one of my Oban / Fort William rakes I was considering modifying the BCK, replacing the roof and interior

The orientation does matter, as has previously been pointed out Reference photos have also been supplied to show the difference This orientation then determines the seating layout for the 1+2 at the First Class end, if the other end is used the orientation is incorrect and as a consequence the dividing door would not fit On a more positive note, I have now fitted the light bars to 11 of the 13 Mark 3 coaches I have I paid particular attention to the FO The end with the light bar socket is the half which need to be removed and declassified Equally, the underframe can be swapped round (if you accidently declassify the wrong) but this is extremely time consuming Externally : Therefore for a CO the yellow stripe and number 1 on the doors, is the opposite end from the light bar socket To represent a FO the yellow stripe and number 1 on the doors would need to applied at the same end as the light bar Internally : To modify the seating, half of the seats at the light bar socket end need to be removed with space between the two inserts for the dividing door I am currently looking for methods to recreate the dividing door Sadly I am having difficulty sourcing reference photos However, it was very basic and the frames were aligned with the edges of the First Class seats, ie off-set to one side