Engineer

Going back to the post on Metropolitan coaches, a clarification. The driving trailer third in the photograph was a 1929 conversion of a 3rd class Bogie Stock coach, enabling the electric 'W' Stock to run in four-coach formations with a motor coach at the other end. The Driving trailer of the 1900s era was a conversion from a steam-hauled brake, soon converted again to electric motor coach, with a style as shown here, : https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-89135 This type of coach ended up on the non-driving end of the push-pull sets, so features in the LRM coach set. The snag with the LRM sets, if turning the clock back, is that they don't include a First coach, only a Composite. An alternative is the 3D print range of these Bogie Stock vehicles, which includes the steam-era variants necessary for a full 1900s train: http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-lt/3d_printed_metropolitan_railway_ashbury-bogie_coaches.htm

Continuing activity at West Ruislip today - looking roughly North-West.

An image relevant to earlier discussion of steam engines: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kindredspirituk/14952721924/in/album-72157613931186050/

Possibly of use? https://narrowgaugeandindustrial.co.uk/pages/review-extras-finescale-7mm-narrow-gauge-trackwork https://groups.io/g/o14/wiki/4871

https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-87703 Just to complement the KS 0-4-2T, another loco for relatively confined spaces.

Just a sideways thought on the 14th October image of the station exit, poster panel and a stack of boxes. I've worked out that it's an LTM image that they have dated as 1925. The Exit built into the original structure is closed off with rough and well-used gates, suggesting non-operational use for storage or access, which is not an unusual scenario. It could be that the area is in use by private tenants, of course, in which case the possibilities are quite wide. Assuming non-operational use by the railway, there aren't any strong clues from the boxes themselves, other than appearing stout and made of wood with rope handles, so could be crates for moving items of equipment. In the more easy-going times, long ago, it could be that the boxes are stacked either to be taken away, or they are a delivery to be taken in. Night maintenance activities could be the reason why the boxes are there with associated daytime deliveries or collections.

In a different life, quite a long time ago, I researched in advance of modelling the vehicles. I have a few notes of modelling dimensions, 4mm scale: 9mm wheels; equal-wheel trucks 18mm wheelbase; bogie centres 75.5mm; overall vehicle length 180mm Can't lay my hands on much more than this at the moment. There was a good general article, with bibliography, in Tramway Review, March 2019.

Have seen Class 503 3D prints available: http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-lms/3d_printed_LMS-cl-503.htm I'm not familiar with these though I'm experimenting with other stock and trams from the same manufacturer and others.

"automated lines on the Underground, sustained operation at 36tph is possible" Indeed, and it's achieved pretty consistently on the Victoria Line. Working timetable: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/ttn-225-20-vic.pdf

Starting points for a Road Machines monorail in 1:32 or 1:24: https://www.shapeways.com/product/RWYQ7RGEQ/1-32-road-machines-monorail-basic-frame?optionId=59800634&li=shops https://www.shapeways.com/product/2T886X6E6/monorail-unpowered-basic-frame?optionId=58132081&li=shops Some track parts also listed.

It's outside my areas of research and expertise, but I think there may have been a number of analogous places around the early Metropolitan and MDR, the Circle and elsewhere for steam loco changeovers and layovers. These were maybe just a single siding. water supply and a place for a few baskets of coal. St James's Park in steam days is one example, I think. Mansion House was a more substantial location for the MDR almost on a par to Edgware Road.

On Bouverie Street shed, I would only have been looking for Metropolitan drawings, and the date was probably too early for a District presence, though that might have happened later in the Century. I've no information on the shed's operational and engineerng role, or when the shed ceased to be active, but it may have been well-placed for loco layovers and very light maintenance, being close to Edgware Road and to Bishop's Road where changeovers would be taking place. The Metropolitan's substantial Edgware Road Works was quite close, too, so that must be part of the story..

Fair points. One partlculary element of the Broad Street site that doesn't get much attention is the large two-level Broad Street Goods Depot, to the West of the passenger station. I'm slightly aware of this establishment because a Grandfather and a Great-Grandfather worked in and around that depot for about 50 years each. There is much more to dscover, I'm sure, for both the depot and the passenger stations' internal layouts, wagon turntables and lateral connections at lower level. https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313324

An overdue observation on the January 2016 discussion of the alignment of route in the vicinity of Praed Street junction, with what used to be a space and an arched entrance to the south-east of teh runnin glines. I believe there are present day LT engineering premises within that site, with street access. Long ago I saw early site plans for the railway including detail of a short two-road engine shed with shallow pits. Looking at the online Ordnance Survey 25" plan, publication date 1869, an engine shed is shown: https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313018 This map show the Paddington area generally, so may be relevant to the continuing discussion here on GWR premises.

An alternative, 1928, view from the air of tthe Liverpool Street territory in question: https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW024269

HS2 site West Ruislip 2020 08 20

Also, there are examples of light loco movements returning after the last outbound morning GWR trains and locos arriving to pick up the evening trains. Analysing 1919 timetables, however, it looks like two locomotives remained at Bishop's Road during the middle of the day and took over the two pm inbound trains.

In response to the previous observations, I don't have perfect answers to the matters raised - archives would be the best sources. I don't know of any hard source to clarify whether any of the GWR City trains were steam-hauled - maybe the archives of GWR or Metropolitan railways would clarify business policy. Metropolitan working timetables provide for electric haulage of all the inbound and outbound GWR trains. Referring to samples of timetables in 1919, 1930 and 1939 there were around seven GWR trains in and out, daily, mostlly reversing at Liverpool Street, one reversing at Aldgate in 1930 and two in 1939. Practically, however, locomotives would need to be tripcock-fitted, and would need to be able to lift their train in peak conditions to maintain performance within a 25-to-30-trains per hour peak service and the latter requirement was probablly best achieved with electric traction. Metropolitan terminus working relied on swift turnaround and an incoming electric loco on a GWR train would take over a subsequent train almost certainly to a different Metropolitan destination. Handling a GWR steam loco in the midst of Metropolitan terminus working would be impractical, although at Aldgate not impossible in extreme emergency. Early 1930s Metropolitan Working Timetables have a few examples of shortened 'Steam Stock' trains [3 coaches] working through to the City during middle day and evening off-peaks, but definitely not a very frequent occurrence given that City terminators were not numerous at those times of day. The 1930s off-peak Metropolitan and H&C services would run with 3- and 4- vehicle electric trains, too. I'd suggest one other source - Underground News, the journal of the London Underground Railway Society.

I apologise for diverting this live thread from its natural flow by going back to posts yesterday on BR 5MT models. I recognised a number on one model and I think it's worth sharing a copy of an image [watermarked] that I believe is the prototype, 73069. The orginal image is by my father on 29th July, 1961 using his Rolleiflex 3.5F. He was taking a few pictures in the closing era of the Metroplitan's electric locomotives and he had just enough time to form a reasonable composition. I was there, very small and with mother, probably sitting on the platform tailwall. Years later he made a 20" x 16" print and it was a favourite, though his hobby tended to concentrate on architecture photography. The print is one of my most treasured items. 1961 07 29 cal 73069 watermark.pdf Other than riding the DMUs to school, I took little note of the main line trains until recently, as an adjunct to my ongoing research on the electric locomotives, now almost at their centenary. Though slightly unclear in the image, the apparent number is consistent with shed allocations and other GC route pictures of the time - I am happy to withdraw if there's expert opinion that's different. I'm minded to create a 4mm diorama to replicate the scene, but only once I've completed the Met loco research and done some overdue tram modelling!

Discussion with a retired colleague has provided an additional early source that discusses H&C electrification and covers the power aspects in some detail: Railway Magazine December 1906. Haven't been able to see the article directly.

In response to the earlier note about illumination, I did some encouraging experiments many years ago. My tramway interests started when in single figures, having been told by parents about their tram journeys and I was taken around London to see relevant places and surviving evidence. My father and I agreed that the most interesting thing to create with a tram model was scenes to represent memorable locations [dioramas] with illumination at night, and if there was any movement, lights would have to go out at gaps in the conduit. We wanted to achieve this with the first kit we obtained, a Bec E/1 and workable illumination wasn't possible in those times, nor was there a satisfactory mechanism. The latter had to wait until I was able to do the development work many years later and, having achieved this, lighting development began but I had to stop practical work before reaching a satisfactory solution. Headlight using fibre Lighting experimentally fitted to part-built models but with filament lamps and diffusers, and trial of centre-rail pick-up on test track.

Just an aside, but reasonably relevant: In a Railway Modeller from the 1970s or thereabouts, C. J. Freezer included an article describing a portable layout for his son's university bedroom. I apologise for not knowing the specific issue.

Just an aside: I've now found where I first read about La Cour converters - 'Steam to Silver', J. G. Bruce, 1969ish first edition. There are only a few sentences on the machines. More relevant to this topic, there is a mention of the GWR's H&C line tracks and substations being vested with London Transport from Nationalisaton, 1 January, 1948.

To compare and contrast, both with a train in view: 2013 Autumn 12/6/2020, bit hazy, alas:

HS2 West Ruislip site 20 May 2020: 11 June 2020: