Engineer

A little while ago, I met a retired colleague who has an interest in transport. He mentioned a railway feature not far from his home territory that might be of interest, and I felt it justified a detour in a walk to make a 'boots on the ground' visit. It's in Kent, and I can't find a direct reference in other posts around here. It's not exactly 'abandoned rails in the road', but is relevant in spirit. There's not much to see when on foot and perhaps a better view might be from the top of a bus. It's a length of railway track, about 150m of neatly ballasted flat-bottom line, on a curve, laid beneath a roundabout. Without trespass, I took a picture that shows one end of the line and the absence of earthworks to continue it. As I understand it, the 'diorama' was installed in modern times to ensure there was space beneath the roundabout for a rail connection between the nearby BR line and an area where there might be a resumption of chalk extraction in the future. It looks better from an aerial map view, perhaps this could inspire an alternative interpretation of 'roundy-roundy'? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3421488,0.4452191,115m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e2?hl=en-GB

Following on from the previous note on the Darwen depot ... On my way to Darwen via a circuitous and interesting route, I'd entered Hoddlesden and just turned the corner from Johnson New Road into Queen Street. inside this corner there was a tree-covered, deeply-shaded inclined road, not much used, and there were rails, cut short. The rails continued up the slope of the road and curved to the left into the foliage. I knew there had been a tram terminus at Hoddlesden but it had been at a higher level and on a different alignment. No tram rails remain at the terminus but the tram shelter is still standing after renovation and improvement works, with roof restored in 2009: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4339640.historic-hoddlesden-tram-shelter-given-new-lease-life/ As an aside, with the depot, the reversing triangle in the south of the town, and several shelters in the area perhaps Darwen is among those few towns that have a good collection of surviving tramway artefacts mostly accessible to the public. http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=33446 Returning to the rails in the road, subsequent checking has shown that Hoddlesden, long ago, was quite industrial with a cotton mills, collieries, brickworks and pipe manufacture. It's clear that the track in question was an extension along the Goods Station yard access road, and across the street to serve the colliery, pipe works and brickworks areas. https://web.archive.org/web/20110615061850/http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageID=1259 The OS map confirms this and shows the track to the tram terminus entering to the left and the shelter alongside. At the top is the Goods Station, terminus of the standard gauge branch. Descending from the yard is the approach road with the single line that crosses Queen Street to the collieries and works. https://maps.nls.uk/view/126518627#zoom=5&lat=9485&lon=10711&layers=BT

At fairly short notice I discovered an 'Open House' series of visits this week to a factory in Darwen, Lancashire. The details are here: http:// http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=46244 There are some visit sessions remaining - and probably there will be a repeat 'Open House' next year as well. The relevance here is that the Company, Ritherdon, is housed in the former Darwen Corporation Tramways sheds, and rails remain in the floor. Of course, the factory and its products are of interest, too - a great variety of steel cabinets and enclosures and other derivatives that use all the cutting, stamping, folding, fabrication, finishing and electrical fit-out capabilities. Many of the cabinets produced are seen around the nation's highways and industry, and the company's present and future activities sound good. The company has an interesting history, too, with some connections to magic and motorcycle sidecars. The visit was well organised and the company team were very hospitable and well-informed. Pictures here were taken with permission of managers and employees and relevant safety precautions, and the visit was on a working day. The ex-depot is formed of three sheds, and from the OS map, there were three entry tracks from a single line in a short side street: https://maps.nls.uk/view/126518495#zoom=6&lat=3808&lon=6691&layers=BT Perhaps each entry line had a fan of two or three roads. Much of the floor is occupied by factory production but there are some rails to be seen. Generally, the grooves have been filled with steel sections, tack welded to retain them. Track gauge in Darwen and the other connected tramways in the area was 4'. Mezzanine floors have been added in the sheds and these make it easier to see the structure and roof steelwork. There are some surviving components of the overhead wiring. At the top of structural uprights, several mountings, links, and insulators survive, together with the tightly-bound eyes formed at the ends of span wires. The span wires were cut away and removed, together with the contact wires above every track, and the metal ears that suspended the contact wire from the span wires. As with several other outings, there were other unexpected, different finds in the area. To avoid confusion I'll do a separate message.

A relatively low-importance one-off steam example. In my collection - though can't find it right now - is a print of City of Truro on a special train, which I believe is traversing the Greenford Loop. Six Bells Junction suggests this was the Stephenson Locomotive Society (Midland Area) 'City of Truro' Swindon Works Tour train on 4 September, 1960. The outbound route from Birmingham Snow Hill passed through High Wycombe to reach Greenford then returned via Reading to Swindon.

In a recent visit to Wateringbury [Kent] I thought there might have been more abandoned rails. It turned out to be another instance of buried rail, but clearly and logically not part of a former track layout. Still a feature of interest, perhaps for modelling. Seen from the footbridge, the single rail top surface can be seen from the mid-left side of the image and sweeping in a curve to the right. It encloses the apron between the station entrance and the approach road. The rail continues towards the station building, now re-purposed, and runs in a straight section across the former entrance then turns, with a tight radius, towards the station building.

Thanks to a recent visit to Burntisland, more rails, along the dockside and across an access road: Rails continue along the dock; bufferstops remain: Rails emerge from under a storage area, and disappear under grass: Remains of another bufferstop beside the former station building:

Mention of films reminded me of finding a number of film clips [b/w, silent] from 1930s to 1950s on the internet showing railway scenes, some London Midland, some Southern, some relevant to the Underground. I apologise if these have appeared here before. I was hunting film of trolleybuses, then found pre- and post-war London trams and then noticed quite a lot of railway material. In the context of this thread, two specific clips relevant to Paddington. Departure platform(s) filmed from train moving out, and concluding a little way past Westbourne Park. https://lolaclips.com/footage-archive/studiocanal/SC-01-1213/train_ride_15 View from Suburban side showing loco movement and Addison Road train formed of H&C Stock [probably 3M and 3DT] which allows me to date it [from timetable and train formation clues] to a short spell around 1936. https://lolaclips.com/footage-archive/studiocanal/SC-01-0836/view_of_paddington_station Lots of wonderful atmosphere in both sequences. Spot the member of staff setting light to rubbish in a bin. Not relevant to question but for interest there are other clips of GW trains, some on secondary lines and a couple taken at night at Ealing Broadway: https://lolaclips.com/footage-archive/studiocanal/SC-01-0321/trains_passing_through_station_at_night_ealing_broadway_london_england_1 https://lolaclips.com/footage-archive/studiocanal/SC-01-0320/trains_passing_through_station_at_night_ealing_broadway_london_england

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/60-plus-london-free-travel-national-rail-map.pdf London over-60 ticket validity

West Ruislip this evening. Large crane in place.

Again, stretching definitions of abandoned rails in the road, this time from a visit to Prestongrange Mining Museum, just east of Musselburgh. Many years ago, the B1348 used to pass through the former colliery and industrial site but was shifted to a new and better alignment further north. The old road remains to give site access at the west end while the eastern end of the road is truncated, and now has a railway line laid on top of the former road surface. Further into the site, an isolated section of track has a path and a roadway laid across it. Behind the 'engine house' there is a short section of embedded narrow gauge line.

Recent evening view of West Ruislip site, always changing.

Can only speculate, no good answers. The plan in question was published in 1894. A Metropolitan Railway plan of the area dated 1927 shows no siding. The London Picture Archive gives a helpful interpolation, with a 1906 image looking down from Turnmill Street and showing the Clerkenwell Road bridge: https://www.londonpicturearchive.org.uk/view-item?key=SXsiUCI6eyJ2YWx1ZSI6ImZhcnJpbmdkb24iLCJvcGVyYXRvciI6MSwiZnV6enlQcmVmaXhMZW5ndGgiOjMsImZ1enp5TWluU2ltaWxhcml0eSI6MC43NSwibWF4U3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMiOjMsImFsd2F5c1N1Z2dlc3QiOm51bGx9LCJGIjoiZXlKMElqcGJNVjE5In0&pg=103&WINID=1651867064809#mf_fV1O141oAAAGAmvLtHw/63226 The electrified track of the Metropolitan is just visible to the lower right, the Widened Lines further left and below. The vacant space adjacent the electrified track is where the map's siding would have been. There is still some space there today. Speculation could be that the siding was present up to the electrification era, early 1900s. There isn't an obvious source or destination of traffic so perhaps it was a 'bolt hole' siding, handy for stowing a few vehicles or resting an engine for a short spell.

In the category of older EMUs, albeit on the brink of being out-of-topic, a sketchy note: The Metropolitan had two single Motor Coaches, rebuilt from damaged Saloon motor cars around 1910. A body style with Composite accommodation and luggage space was created for these rebuilds, and was a pilot for the Main Line Stock (aka Dreadnought) design. Scratch-aids or a kit are available. The traction equipments of each Motor Coach were different, therefore they were incompatible with one another. Each shuttle Motor Coach could be used to form in longer consists with equivalent-equipped Saloon Motor and Trailer cars. As well as being used as single coach shuttles (for example in the Uxbridge branch from Harrow) the formation was often strengthened with a compatible Driving Trailer car (typically one of the few with Composite accommodation) of Saloon Stock. There's an aerial image that shows the Rickmansworth 2-vehicle formation in Watford (Metropolitan) platform 2, albeit extremely tiny unless enlarged: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW019235 The shuttle stock served for a long time on the Edgware Road - Addison Road service and from the late 1920s to the early 1930s there was a Rickmansworth - Watford shuttle. By this time, there is evidence that there were two [specific and different] Composite Saloon Driving Trailers in use, each one compatible with one of the Motor Coaches. Final use of the Motor Coaches was on the Stanmore branch off-peak shuttles, one lasting until the late 1930s. I don't have any non-copyright images of the 2-vehicle formations to show but they exist in books and publications and on Facebook, and the nearest to hand is a video with a glimpse of one Motor Coach leading an off-peak 3-vehicle [i.e. mixed Coach and Car stock] train at about 40 seconds: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/film-video/item/2005-3467 Linked to the Metropolitan, in the mid-1930s the Edgware Road - Addison Road service was operated for a brief period by 2-car trains of 1906 H&C Saloon Stock [Motor+Driving Trailer]. Finally, although I'm not expert on Underground matters, there were various instances of 2-car operation on various lines for example the 2-car trains of District stock on their frequent shuttle to Uxbridge up the early 1930s and on services to South Acton, latterly including substitution for the single car shuttle. I think there were multiple instances of 2-car off-peak operations on the tube lines in earlier years and one last instance was a 2-car off-peak service on the Northern City line in the 1960s, using a 'Standard' Stock motor car and a control trailer.

Today, toured a small part of West Sussex by bus and on foot, and began with a familiar bus journey to Steyning. Looking out when passing the Old Cement Works near Upper Beeding, I noticed some rails. Note on general site history below. https://www.shorehambysea.com/chalk-history-shoreham-beeding-cement-works/ Only able to return and check at dusk so not good images. The now-derelict works had sites on both sides of the A283. There are rails visible in both sites. The best-lit image is on the eastern side, with the lines clearly obstructed. On the western side, it's clear where the lines passed under the road and curved to connect with the other yard with about three parallel tracks - not very visible in these images against the dusk light. The yard on the west side would have had the connection to the main line railway - now long gone.

Response to post Tuesday at 21:22: Farringdon image shows the Clerkenwell Road bridge and just behind it, the smaller Vine Street bridge. Trolleybuses, and trams before them, ran along Clerkenwell Road and also ran on Farringdon Road [famous for its kerbside book stalls], parallel to the railway on the left of the image. The picture must be dated from mid1970s-1980s and sometime in that era and before, I can recall a diesel shunting loco on the remaining siding in question. Below signal OH28 there is the unused and partly covered single aspect with its yellow cowl and diamond backplate, a relic of an early but never used platform emergency stop installation for one-person operation. There is a good article on the GNR-LNER goods depot in HMRS journal Volume 22-1 for 2015 January-March. This includes a layout plan published in The Engineer 1894/11/03 showing two parallel short sidings, the one closest to the retaining wall being longer, seeming to end just under the Clerkenwell Road bridge. There is a similar archived GNR plan from the 19th century [in LT's set of Metropolitan drawings] for an hydraulic pipe run across the area in question to GNR stables on the other side of the line. This shows two sidings also, but the siding nearest the wall is shorter, and the other goes into the pumping installation, under the bridge. Photographs in the Britain from Above collection show the area in 1920 and 1946-1948, potentially more useful when considering the need for 1930s information. Earlier images are not sufficiently clear but a 1940s view give clues on the sidings which appear to stop short of the Clerkenwell Road bridge. Image 1947/09/06: https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW010076 Good view looking along the railway, away from the City termini. The siding against the retaining wall has been truncated, and I'd speculate that this might have been done at some time in the 1930s or during war years. I believe that the building that rises between Clerkenwell Road and Vine Street bridges is part of the GNR hydraulic system pump station, maybe housing the accumulator. The nearer chimney and building at its base is also part of the hydraulic pump station. It could be that the sidings had served as a yard headshunt and to hold banking locos, also to service the pumping site, and maybe this latter function had changed or ended hence the truncation. There are useful images in the 'London Picture Archive' too.

Very brief visit to Bere Ferrers 2022 03 25, with a road containing rails that are polished by road vehicles that pass, but there doesn't seem to be any regular rail usage. Land around the station and former yard is partly converted to residential developments. Some of the yard is a railway heritage site with rolling stock, locomotives and equipment. Stepping outside the station on arrival there's a line of rails leading away, roughly perpendicular to the station alignment, along the centre of an access road. The rails seem to be worn bullhead, with some of the road surface around the rails given a topping of gravel. The line might not be part of the original yard layout. The distant end of the line is closed by a metal gate. The rails end just after. At the station end, the rails arrive at a siding alongside the rear of the platform, with a form of small turntable making the connection.

"Is Sarah Siddons still classed as a piece of departmental stock, rather than a 'preserved' loco?" Still owned by an operating organisation, TfL - successor to its original owners. Not sure it fits the 'normal' operation requirement of the original question, although it has an established role with occasional revenue-earning runs. No.12 is 100 this year.

The latest activity of this topic has stirred me at last to mention the Metropolitan's approach to Halts in the 20th Century, beginning with Ickenham. Initial internal correspondence talked about a 'halting place', and in later correspondence, documents and a poster for the opening, the word 'Halte' is used mostly but disappears after a year or two and wasn't used for other locations. The Jackson history of the Metropolitan suggests the spelling 'Halte' originated in Belgian Vicinal usage and was adopted by the GWR for a time. The Metropolitan definitely took note of the GWR approach and style, and there's mention of the GWR North Acton halt when they came to discussing platform shelters. The GWR's contractor for these, Taylor & Co. of Birmingham was suggested. Cost for the 'Halte' was estimated at £325 but shelters were omitted to cut the cost by £50. Even before opening, there was a note in the local press about the convenience of a rail service for the village with a wry aside referring to Ickenham Hall [still standing and in local authority stewardship] just across the road, and to its then owner, the Metropolitan Railway's Solicitor. The 'Halte' opened on 25th September 1905. There were early issues caused by the absence of shelter so, at a cost of £40 each, corrugated iron shelters were provided from July 1906. These did not have the pagoda roof style of the GWR version, but were otherwise quite similar in size, layout and features. The Ickenham shelters gave good service, disappearing only with building of a new station structure in 1970-1971. Subsequent Metropolitan Halts were opened at: Eastcote 27/5/1906 Rayner's Lane 27/5/1906 Ruislip Manor 5/8/1910 West Harrow 17/11/1913 North Harrow [Met and GC joint line] 22/3/1915 Other examples: Preston Road 21/5/1908 initially a request stop, to serve nearby shooting grounds Sandy Lodge 9/5/1910 initially to serve a Golf Course Ickenham, from the SWA Newton collection. Subsequent to July 1906. https://imageleicestershire.org.uk/view-item?i=7044&WINID=1645128714443 Similar date, different vehicle formation: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252305469420 Eastcote https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/2004-11767 Rayner's Lane https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-88719 West Harrow notes https://machorne.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/historic-november-a-monthly-digest-of-historic-dates-relating-to-the-london-underground/ Notes on Preston Road area https://wembleymatters.blogspot.com/2020/08/the-preston-story-part-2.html Sandy Lodge [later Moor Park] notes https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/moor-park-the-tube-station-in-a-private-estate-49621/

I don't think it's been mentioned already but there was a Model Railway Constructor Plans Page feature on these coaches in May 1962. I took an interest because of the Metropolitan Railway connection but can't vouch for the content. Drawings had some detail and dimensions. there are some notes on the vehicles, and two side photographs, seemingly as-built, of the Brake Coach and the Composite. These show some shadowy useful below-solebar detail such as battery boxes and dynamos.

Slightly relevant to topic: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rtw501/5902390619/in/album-72157626799933439/ GWR locomotive and train departing Paddington, suggested date 1930. In the background there's a tiny glimpse of Metropolitan Railway M-V Bo-Bo loco, possibly running round after bringing a GWR train from the City.

"... am I right in thinking that sets 2 & 3 would be suitable for the Metropolitian liveried locos and for the pre-war London Transport locos sets 3 & 4 would be suitable?" The set 1 GWR livery would broadly be compatible with the Metropolitan locos in their original livery pre-nameplates [so before 1928ish]. Since these coaches appeared in 1920 and 1921, they would be also around just in time for a brief overlap with the original Metropolitan BWE [camel-back] and BTH [box-cab] electric locomotives that were eliminated progressively from 1920 to 1922.

North of West Ruislip, this afternoon.

Yesterday I filled a gap in my travels. Back in the late 1960s and 1970s my father took me around as many surviving tramway features of London that we could find. One we didn't consider was a horse tram depot in Plumstead. The site and maybe some elements of original buildings remain. In my brief visit I noticed a pothole within which was a cast tramway switch, the point blade still in place. Further along, some track from the depot fan is visible.

Work continuing today at the portal just beyond West Ruislip:

Just a side note on a couple of items in the thread. Long ago, at a time when old signs were disappearing from the Underground, I visited and photographed in-situ as many old or unusual signs as I could. I remember that some signs were marked 'Chromo Wolverhampton'. These were probably station signs at places like North Ealing, Barons Court or St James's Park. http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/metalware/chromo.htm On the mention of Parsons Green [PG], this was the hub of London Transport's Works and Buildings Department from the 1930s until the 1980s or thereabouts. Each of the LT constituents had either contractors or its own staff for premises maintenance and these were drawn together after 1933 so there were a variety of cultures and talents involved, and a number of sub-offices around London each with workshops and offices. PG housed technical and managerial facilities, and various aspects of their work - joinery, fitting, construction and notably - concrete casting. PG produced and maintained all the specialist cast concrete posts for bus stops and station signs, as well as timber bus shelters. I remember being shown the massive array of files and card indexes for all the bus stops and shelters in London Transport territory. One family member had many years of service in the Department and I was lucky to have some spells with them in my early times including seeing the displays of all their work at the annual Apprentices' awards. Specifically on signs, they did not have the capability to produce their own vitreous enamel signs but did in most instances designed and produced the frames and mountings for the bought-in enamelled items, then installed them and did the subsequent maintenance.