RailWest

Practices varied and changed over the years :-) In cases where the engine release point/crossover was beyond the end of the platform, then the stretch of track from the buffer-stop end of the platform to the actual buffer-stop might be regarded as being beyond the limit of passenger train working and hence not restricted to the rules for signalling passenger lines. This often resulted in a different arrangement of the point-work and ground signals, see examples such as Princetown or Helston for GWR practice.

Compensation is a tricky subject best left to those who understand it more than I do :-) To some extent compensators can be eliminated by the careful use and positioning of any cranks, but that may not happen here. However I would suggest that:- In the long run to the pointwork at the LH end you will need one compensator roughly midway between the signal-box and the trap, and another somewhere between the crank which feeds the rod across to the trap and the point at the LH end At the RH end, one comp in the run from the box to the facing point and another in the run from the box to the trap One in the run from the box to the FPL. Although practice did differ, in principle the rod from the box to the FPL should feed the end of the lock bar further from the toe of the point, the FPL plunger itself being driven off the end of the lock bar nearer to the toe. This ensures that the plunger can't be moved if the lock bar is broken! As drawn, at the LH end both the trap and point will move in the same direction, but if you study what will then happen at their switch blades you will realise that actually they need to move in opposite directions, so one of the cranks will have to be reversed.

Not quite correct - points 14 (into the goods yard) are still mechanical. IIRC points 14 are the channel rodding. AIUI this exists 'cos in BR days the sidings were taken OOU and then BR removed the rodding, only to decide later that they needed the sidings for Eng Dept usage, so had to re-install rodding hence the use of channel.

The WR introduced two sections of TS&T working Barnstaple Jcn 'B' - Instow - Torrington in 1968 :-)

AIUI the signalman would have to 'Block Black' to the next box up the line whenever he wanted to occupy the single line outside of the Down Home, regardless of whether there was an Up Advanced Starting or not. So really it make no difference.

>>>Some ground signals apply to more than one track (coming out of a group of sidings), and in that case it would commonly be placed between them. ... True, but....equally, it was not unknown to place the ground-signal outside of (say) a pair of converging sidings and make it apply to both. >>>Also, to avoid ambiguity where it may not be obvious which track a signal applies to, ground signals often have a little arrow pointing to the applicable line..... IIRC the LB&SCR used to have a nifty-looking 'pointing finger' symbol for such purposes. On the other hand, if the L&SWR ever used pointers then IMHO it would have been a rare exception. I suspect the 'RailSigns' version is too modern for the OP's layout, but I may be wrong....

Signals are usually put on the LHS, but where necessary because of sighting or lack of clearance etc then often on the RHS instead. Much the same with ground signals, although I think - but can't find any confirmation - that at one time there was some sort of rule relating to which side was most likely to be visible to the driver when needing to watch the signal during shuntind. Hand points would be simple levers, one next to each point. No locking or connection to the SB.

As regards style of ground-signal, it all depends really upon (a) what was the preference of your chosen pre-Grouping company and (b) to what extent, if at all, your feel the S Rly would have upgraded them. As regards placement:- One at the toe of the trailing point at the LH end of the platform, reading into the loop/sidings only One at the toe of the trap(s) at the LH end of the loop. If you have traps in both the loop and ES road as suggested,then simply put it outside of the ES road to apply to both. One at the toe of the facing point at the RH end of the platform, reading into the loop only. NB: if you put the Home there also, then probably it would be next to the base of that post. One at the toe of the trap at the RH end of the loop. None needed for moves to/from any individual siding.

I remember that, always a pain when the CMOS battery went flat and you lost the BIOS settings :-( I remember also working the EDS60(?) disk packs with ICL 2900 mainframe computers, where - for maximum access efficiency - you tried to get related data in IDMS databases stored in the same 'cylinder' of the various platters, so that there was no need to move the heads between reading the index on one platter and finding the data on another. It was all theoretical, in that there was no way to tell what was actually happening once the discs were spinning - but the concept impressed the boss :-)

Further down the line at Blue Anchor, when points 6 were converted to motor-working that handle was cut-down. At the same time lever 5, previously the FPL, was kept as a spare 'worked to maintain locking' - to avoid all the hastle of having to dismantle and alter so much of the 'stud' locking - and so painted white/blue and its handle was cut down also. Ironically IMHO that frame is far more 'heritage' in being the original 1904 frame in that box, whereas the one at Williton is the 3rd frame there and dates 'only' from 1937. Incidentally, as an aside, IMHO Blue Anchor is unique (at least at the moment) in being the only - and oldest - GWR box with its original 'stud' frame in its original box structure in its original location and operational. The example at Buckfastleigh is about 2 years younger and of course not (currently) operational.

>>>>Why don't 12 and 16 have shortened handles? Unless the situation has changed since I took that photo in 2017, AIUI it was a reluctance to 'damage' a heritage frame. Instead they adopted the GWR practice of marking '[Electric Switch]' on the lever-leads :-) In the case of lever 1, I suspect that the original full-length lever there (for the once-working Up Distant) was moved into the previous Space 2 and a 'handy' cut-down lever from elsewhere put in its place.

Although I never experienced them 'in the flesh', it became apparent recently when researching something about the S&DJR that they had examples of NA and RE locks on Stevens-pattern frames and I was lead to believe from further enquiries that this was quite common on the SR. AFAIK the contacts were closed by the movement of the actual lever, rather than the catch-handle.

The L&SWR used a lot of foot-plungers, whereas the GWR plungers were shelf-mounted.

Yes, the 'B' and 'D' positions of the lever. The idea is that, by moving the lever from N to D, but NOT all the way to R, you move the locking sufficient to prevent conflicting moves, but not enough to release other moves until it has been proven that the point has moved fully over to the reverse position. Once that has been detected at the point, then the electric lock on the lever is freed to enable you to move the lever from D to R, at which stage the locking for the signal(s) for the new route becomes free. Conversely, when putting back, you go from R to B, wait for the points to be motored back and proven normal, then you can move from B to N. Indicator in the signal-box could be a typical circular one like an arm repeater or similar, but with three indications NORMAL / - / REVERSE for the point position. If you look at the picture here (Williton on the WSR) levers 12 and 16 are for motor points. The round white-faced point indicators are above them on the front of the shelf. Look closely at the lever quadrants and you will see the B and D position notches close to each other near the mid-stroke.

>>>>>I don't think ANY trap points are necessarily required. With respect, trap point ARE needed - whether they are just trap-points, or also serve to access another siding is simply a matter of implementation. In the case of the point on the loop leading to the creamery, then IMHO there is too big a gap between that and the point in the main line, with the risk therefore that a small wagon could be left between the two and foul the main-line. >>>As incoming passenger trains would stop with the front coach clear of the left-most point (otherwise the engine could not run round), then any trap points that end would not be necessary. Where the train would stop is irrelevant - the important location is the defined limit of passenger train working (LPTW). If an incoming passenger can pull up all the way to the buffer stop if necessary, then you need a trap point at the LH loop end in order to protect that movement. The only way to avoid that would be if the trailing point at the LH end were some distance to the left of the platform, in which case you could define the end of the platform as the LPTW and have the normal position of that point set for the loop, thereby acting as the trap to protect the platform road (the GWR did this quite often, eg Helston or Princetown etc). >>>As for the signalling, a starter on the right-hand end of the platform, with an assumed advance starter AND an assumed incoming home signal (for the platform line) and a small arm or ground signal (for the loop/yard). To complete the picture, a YELLOW ground signal at the toe-end of the right-hand point on the loop. As I've said before, ideally the Up Starting should be on the platform in rear of the loop point. You could assume an up Advanced Starting if you want, but it would not really be necessary. Definitely a Down Home, which IMHO ought to be 'in view' just to the right of the loop entry point. Almost certainly a ground signal rather than small arm for entry into the loop (if at all). If there is a discrete trap-point at the RH end of the loop, as opposed to using the creamery siding point, then a RED ground signal for exit. If you do use the siding point instead as a trap-point, then whether the ground signal would be yellow rather than red would depend upon whether or not you think the Southern would have got around to upgrading it by the time of your layout period. Of course, as HM might say "..views may differ.." :-)

>>>>...in situations were there was more than one pair of points, would that require another hand generator or could that be switched... By coincidence, I've been looking at photos of a 1930s installation which probably had Westinghouse 'Style C' machines. There is one example of a point leading into a goods line, with an associated trailing trap-point; there was just a single motor attached to the former with normal mechanical rodding from it to work the latter.

Not quite...:-) One trap in the ES siding and one in the loop roughly in line with it. Both worked by a rod coming straight across from the rod by the platform under the loop. I've done a very rough edit of your photo which hopefully (!) will make this clearer. The orange lines are the diverging parts of the trap points. The pink lines are the rodding (I've omitted any cranks etc). There are others on here who may have different ideas...:-) You might perhaps want to move the traps a little bit further to the right to the other side of the crossing nose IMHO no needs for any subsidiary 'shunt ahead' arm or similar, just a hand-signal from the signal-man would suffice.

>>>.... the point at the centre of the loop which serves the two sidings. Where would the operating lever be placed for this point? I assume it cannot be between the main and loop lines. Can it be situated across the engine shed siding? Agreed on both counts. Many instances where hand levers were separated from their point by another line for just such a reason.

1. The signal is a Starter. 'Home Starter' is a tautological nonsense description, it can not be both :) 2. The facing point at the RH end of the loop requires one rod for the point and one rod for the FPL (unless you assume an 'economic' FPL, which seems unlikely but not impossible if you imagine any HF Stevens influence !) 3. No FPL needed at the LH end. 4 The rod from the trap at the LH end would go straight across under the platform line and 'drop off' from under the main rod run, not go the long way around as drawn. 5 You can't use the ES road point as a trap 'cos it faces the wrong way :-) Given the proximity of that point to the main line, then most likely there would be two single-blade traps - both worked from the same lever + rod - somewhere in the vicinity of the point crossing nose, one in the outer rail of the ES siding and the other in the outer rail of the loop. 6. A single-rail trap in the outer rail of the RH end of the loop as marked.

Far too many unnecessary rods ! 1. The only points which need to be operated by the signal-box would be those at each end of the run-round loop, including the trap-points at the ends of the loop which you have omitted :-) All other (siding) points would be worked by adjacent hand-levers. 2. One rod from the SB alongside the platform to serve the point + trap at the LH end. 3. One rod out of the SB dividing into to two going in different directions to work the point and trap at the RH end. 4. Another rod from the SB to the FPL on the facing point at the RH end. 5 As regards ground-signals, at most one into and one out of the loop at the RH end and similar at the LH end. 6 Ideally your starting signal should be on the platform in rear of the point at the RH, otherwise any train standing at it fouls any moves in/out of the loop, but with your short layout that might look a bit odd. It might be easier to deal with compensators after you've redrawn the rods :-)

The toilet was at the other end, at the top of the stairs in the porch. I may be wrong, but I think this was done to avoid overlooking an adjacent house.

Now available here .... http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/railco/sdjr/sigmisc.html#detector ...although still fairly basic.

Thanks for the tip, I hadn't got that far along my bookshelf yet! Quite a nice image if you know what you are looking at, but rather too cluttered IMHO for explaining to the uninitiated. I'm still looking.... There are a few examples of 'weighted' detectors that can be seen in odd places (eg Glastonbury), but again mostly too far away to give a clear image.

Sadly not, as it dates from a period after all the signals - and hence also the detectors - were removed :-( As an aside, hopefully a new page about Henstridge will appear later this year....

I was told that this was done to avoid expensive claims from the owners of visiting engines at the head of Up trains if they shot off the end and down the side of a 30-odd foot embankment :-)