Jub45565

I'm not quite sure this fits with the thoughts of the OP, but 00-SF at 16.2mm would be even closer to 4'. The principle behind it being that RTR mechanisms will still run through it, but obviously means building the track. Most (all?) 4' railways would need some degree of kit/scratchbuilding of stock, but going 16.2mm does allow for interoperability with other peoples stock if that is the incentive. Obviously if the idea is to use RTR trackwork then this idea is irrelevant :-)

Yes, does anyone have a photo of one on the Brassmasters underframe specifically for it? Horses for courses, I'm mulling over the Bachmann/Oxford/Parkside/Slaters approach.

Yes, does anyone have a photo of one on the Brassmasters underframe specifically for it? Horses for courses, I'm mulling over the Bachmann/Oxford/Parkside/Slaters approach.

Apologies for the delay... it was Blackgates who do drawings for the Ivatt 2 tank,but it does have the shorter chimney. I also can't see anything in the NRM drawing list for the standard 2, but that doesn't mean I haven't missed it! http://www.blackgates.co.uk/drawings.html#Locomotive%20Drawings. Edited to add: HMRS do have one listed, but no details as to which of the three chimney options it refers to! Also the lack of price makes me assume it isnt currently available, but may be an avenue worth pursuing. https://hmrs.org.uk/drawings/chimney-for-class-2-2-6-2-tank-locomotive-designed-by-h-ivatt.html Also see this blog entry, which confirms a general lack of availability (4 years ago) but he may have the sketch/dimensions still? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/27/entry-14868-ivatt-2mt/

Yeah they are crying out for a book in the wild swan series, but there isn't one... There is a large scale set of drawings for the tank available online, I'll dig it out and see whether it would be of use to you.

The drill press discussion has been of use to me - I discounted the idea of a mini drill stand as I want to be able to use smaller drills than 1mm, and this has been backed up in the discussion. Therefore, for me, it clarifies that one of those wouldn't be up to the job, and thus isn't a bargain (to me). To add a potential bargain for someone, Lidl have ultrasonic cleaners from 20/12. I have a larger one which I wouldn't be without, but wanted it to be a suitable size for a 4mm coach... Doesn't appear to have made it onto their website yet, but is on the app:

I have a feeling Shawplan have in mind bogie frames and detailing for these in mind, for some time. Looking good for the interim though!

I have a feeling Shawplan have in mind bogie frames and detailing for these in mind, for some time. Looking good for the interim though!

Which appears to only be available in 7mm?

For the extended sleepers the point lever sits on. Presumably separate as they could be fragile

Lidl from Sunday have their display cabinets. Not sure if it's a bargain as such but I know they have their following when available. Also are the tressle.

The society can sell to the public at their own shows as everyone visiting effectively becomes a day member. This isn't the case at other shows. Of course they could have a society stand at the show and allow members to collect things to save postage, but that becomes a faff for the sales team - and I suspect the angle aimed at isn't from a member saving postage, but another none member who wants access to the products... just join! (apologies if I am wrong, but judging by the flow of this topic and the wording of the question I added 2+2 to get..?)

No it isn't- the Scalefour Society & EM Gauge Society are stocking them, for sales to members (which includes 'day members - ie those who visit the shows they run).

Another take on a High Level/Hattons hybrid, and the mods required to do it, is over on the Scalefour forum. Nothing to do with me, but thought it may be of interest here: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6127 Meanwhile, yours is looking really good Tom! & good luck with the venture.

Looking good! I like curved layouts, so looks worth it to my eye. It may be a good idea to reduce the length of the excursion trains? Not only to help fiddle yard requirements, but also that they might dwarf the layout? I seem to remember reading somewhere that trains about 1/3rd of the layout length look about right, but obviously it would be nice thing to be able to model them properly if you can work out a fiddleyard system to suit! The other thing to consider is the ballast traffic. Are you planning on using the same wagons with removable loads, or do you need to be able to swap the full and empty rakes? Same I guess for coal traffic in the other direction...

It depends what prototype is being looked at. Looking around some of the Penrhyn Quarry yard curves were incredibly tight. The Welsh Highland Railway (1923) was built with a 298ft minimum radius, so could look ok at 2' but would look tight below that to my eyes at least. Horses for courses!

They (or at least TSB, the only time I have had issues) refuse to help after 3 months... so much for protection. I like to give people benefit of the doubt, and in my mind the protection should only start after 3 months!

Interestingly (to me at least!) Hornby LMS bogies & Bachmann LNER bogies are a doddle to convert to P4. Conversely, Bachmann LMS (As per their portholes) and Hornby LNER (as per the suburbans) aren't as the frames are too narrow! Both these Bachmann types are new, with pickups. Theoretically EM wheels are inset a bit, but with wider tyres, so the overall distance over wheelfaces isn't too far apart between the 2 standards.

One thing that a lot of people seem to ignore/forget, is that you can gain from such Expos, AGMs & events without attending. For example, the fact this track is being developed is the result of various discussions, people asking 'what if' questions and tackling certain questions head on. Some of these discussions may happen anyway, but from what I see and overhear at various society (not necesarily EMGS, but the principle holds) based events they are a good breading ground for thoughts, ideas and developments which help the society members at large. In this day and age, the likes of RMWeb and exhibitions are a larger source of information for people who havent heard of EM/P4 than local modelshops, unfortunate as that is in some ways - and the EMGS are advertising the fact it is becoming available. Each to their own, but there seems a bit of cutting ones noses off to spite ones face (or as is often the case these days, taking offence on other people behalf).

Dart/MJT do LNER grab handles, and also sell the Frogmore GWR options, if any of these fit the bill? https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.php#CarriageComponents-LNERDetailingParts

August 65 is fine as they were at Skipton by then, so perfectly plausible. Before then it was 4Fs, Skipton had loads of them. There may have been interspersed with 3Fs and Ivatt 2 2-6-0s when the loads were light enough but they had left Skipton by 64. As well as Beast's comment that they might not be right, this is also an assumption on my part! Very few things are labelled, but several little squares on other locations are labelled GF for ground frame - so working with that, and knowing that the one by the crossing is a ground frame, it makes sense to me. There was a flow of animal feed to Rylstone, but I'm not sure when that traffic dried up (/transferred to road). If that was still going, I would guess the shed would be kept for it. The Carnforth 75xxxs were the Skipton ones, transferred there when Skipton shed closed and so worked the branch from there. I'm not sure what logic/evidence Donald Binn's had for saying they werent used for the first year or so of Skipton allocation, and as you have evidence to suggest otherwise then that's good enough for me!

Yes, Grassington box closed in 1962 at which point it became 1 engine in steam from Embsay junction. I usually share the link for photos on there, they are brilliant as you say!

In Donald Binn's later yellow and purple book (no ISBN that I can see) it is said that Rylstone level crossing was worked from a 6 lever ground frame protected in both directions by home and distant signals. No mention is made of other point operation. There is a second groundframe shown in the Signalling record society British Railways layout plans of the 1950s, volume 12: Ex-MR main line Carlisle to Leeds, associated branches and joint lines - but the groundframes aren't covered by the book (unlike boxes, where all the signals and points have the lever numbers annotated).

No 75xxxs were transferred to Skipton til March 65 - edited to add that there are several references (admittedly all in Donald Binns publications) that they werent used on the branch until 1966. There was a class 2, 78055 for a year up until 3/64. No Ivatt 4s after October 58. Some Wharfedale freight was worked by Holbeck locos but I don't think that included Grassington.

The only colour photo I've seen without a loco in the way is here, and very unhelpful. http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/images/pf-time-capsules/3507.jpg There are a few colour photos of fitted locos,which I'd agree suggest pale yellow (straw? It's s bit light, but won't be white as that would clash with through piped, unless staff were expected to know locos and coaching stock would be unlikely to have a through pipe - they knew what they were working with, just clarifying which pipe was which?). Photos I've looked at are in: - Midland lines in colour, Chris Gammell - The Last decade of British steam, Gavin Morrison (filthy loco pipes!) - London Midland region steam finale, Michael Welch Clearest photo, p18: - British railways in colour, volume 1: the London Midland region, Alan Earnshaw & Kevin Derrick That said, there are several photos including of stock in: - The changing railway scene: London Midland Region, Derek Huntress. These seem to suggest very pale colours,and the cleanest example has a red pipe on the train brake vac. Jumpers are red on this example, though in most photos they are just dirty... HTH,