Brassey

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Nice to see the old Finecast Metro again. Or the box at least!

 

This adds a whole new dimension to the philosophical discussion of the fisherman's knife/old broom: If you replace all the parts and then use the replaced parts to make a second identical object, then which is which and what is still the same? I need to lie down 

Surely Mikkel the old broom handle was never discarded but used for something else!  And so it continues - In these days of austerity/lockdown/80% salary furlough, I have become even more mean than usual and have looked to reusing things that I once discarded but never actually got rid of.  OK I'm a hoarder.  So this Wills Metro kit may have a London Road Models gearbox which I abandoned some time ago in favour of High Level boxes.   I've so many of the LRM versions, I thought I'd put them to use.  This Frankenstein's monster will also have the bunker from an M&L 633 kit that I decided long ago was surplus to requirements (the front sandboxes of that are on my Beyer Goods, the chimney went elsewhere long ago).

The jury is still out on the EM Ultrascale wheels and whether they will run on my dodgy P4 track.  If that fails, I do have a couple of axles of Gibson 5' 2" P4 wheels left over after I broke a set trying to get them off a Dean Goods!

Anyway I seem to enjoy trying to make silk purses out of these pigs ears rather than attacking the pristine newer kits in their boxes.  I must build some carriages though!

11 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

On the Beyer Goods, yes, but not on the Armstrong Goods.

Possibly right.  I might be mistaking the front lamp for the bufferbeam.  Eitherway, I'm not changing it now.

No 453 at Craven Arms circa 1910:

I've only recently noticed, but on all these loco pictured here, (from the same era) the front buffer beam extends above the running plate.  None of the kits I have provide for this option unless I am mistaken.

Does anyone know?

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Hmmm - I'm suddenly noticing a lot of Armstrong smokebox doors on 850s and 2101s (the latter not being Armstrong at all). The difference in size between the Armstrong door and a dinky Dean one is remarkable.

 

my No. 334 will also have an Armstrong door (I bought two from the Broad Gauge Society stand a few years back at Scaleforum ostensibly for the Dean door which is on the same casting).  I also have in my stash probably dating back to the 70's, a number of turned brass doors that are labelled Armstrong.  That's how I became aware there was  a difference.

12 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Yep, a British Petroleum Goods  

Hey, no oily diesels here. 

42 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

 +       ?

 

 

 

Correct initials

This one at Craven Arms on the LNWR/GWR North to South joint Line:

Very nice sir.  I do like an S4 boiler and the old OSF and impressive in 7mm.  You can't get an etched brass tender like that in 4mm but I have another solution.  I thought you would be all Broad Gauge bgman.  Thanks for posting.

My Jidenco Standard Goods was acquired so long ago, I got a set of Mike Sharman wheels for it directly from the man himself at a show.

The other loco was a more recent acquisition as a wreck of parts on eBay.  It came with a tender that I am using elsewhere.  That has a set of Gibson drivers waiting.

The rods too are old Gibson stock that I got donkey's years ago.  I don't know if they still do 7' 4" x 8' 4" but he did then.  They are earmarked for a couple of Buffalo tanks.  The fixed rods that came with the original M&L kits were very slender so those might be recycled for the Armstrong Goods.  Not decided yet.  I've had most of this stash since the 70's/80's so they are finally getting addresses during lockdown.

2 hours ago, Coal Tank said:

Hi Peter Thats a slip coach behind the engine isnt it

John 

Hi John,  It could well be.  The Clerestorey seems to disappear behind the dome!

5 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Thanks for pointing out the style of the Armstrong smokebox door - I hadn't noticed that before. It seems the locos, or most of them, got Dean doors at a very early stage.

 

I only became aware because the Broad Gauge Society sell a casting which is on same sprue as a Dean smoke box door.  They were obviously more prevalent in broad gauge days.

I can't remember where I get every pictures but that one has some Photoshop work.  Here's another roundtop; 406 from the same lot but with an S2 boiler.  Loverly tender:

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Coincidentally, http://www.gwr.org.uk/armstrong-goods.html

 

Thanks Miss P. A lot of belpaires there.  I prefer a roundtop myself on these.  Note the Armstrong smokebox door.  Bigger and less dished than the Dean:

14 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Just in case you have not spotted this topic elsewhere on RM Web there is a new range of kit turnouts in EM under development. 

 

These aren’t available for P4 if anyone was wondering 

2 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I still have issues with AGW wobbly wheels, that's still work in progress. 

Tonight I noticed that one of the H spoke wheels on a Coal Tank was not concentric.  Another common AGW problem in addition to the wobble.  As the chassis is compensated, I can live with it as it does not affect the running.  

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Very nice Duncan, many thanks for taking the trouble to de-mystify this!

 

Mikkel are you considering going over to EM/P4?  That and black loco frames, Crimson Lake carriages and grey wagons with 25" lettering; it's all too much.  

My brother is currently converting a RTR OO chassis to fit a whitemetal body and I find the half round bearings held in by a keeper plate a very strange concept.

I've been P4 for as long as I can remember and have not been tempted by any RTR conversions thus far though many must find it a good route into those scales.

18 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Peter,

 

They are massive - and we’ll meet some of the joys this can through up later after I’ve gone through the delights of getting the wheels in some sort of order!

 

D

I'd be temped to bush them maybe using pointed axle wagon bearings if they fit.

The holes on those Hornby J15 rods look massive!  AG crankpins are 1.5mm; I think Ultrascale are the same.

I not aware that the S4Society do conversion sheets though articles do appear in the magazine and forum.  This is probably because received wisdom is to compensate everything.

Peter

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Batch produced tenders, not something we see every day. Really brings home that this is no laid-back branchline!

 

I suppose you could build the tender first next time, to save the best for last. But then there's a risk that the project never gets going because the tender bores you! Dilemmas, dilemmas. Funny how this hobby involves a lot of management. Of space, time, energy, motivation. Not sure I like that, but I suppose it's inevitable if we want to make something happen.

 

I do like the DX Goods. Very workmanlike. A hopelessly Swindonesque question: Why the square cabsides? 

 

Thanks Mikkel.  I meant to have said that I have now resolved to build the tender first! One of the three tenders is for a small Jumbo/Whitworth yet to be started.  The other tender is for a Coal Engine.  I also have 3 uncomplete Coal Tanks one of which is lined and is now just missing its plates!

For me there is a challenge in maintaining the discipline in this "hobby".  A couple of years back my new year's resolution was not to build things on a whim but to stick to a plan to stop having unfinished projects.  I am STILL trying to complete the stalled projects in my cabinet of shame!  It was always tempting to build the latest kit or respond to something that was in vogue on a forum.  A lot of what I have half completed was to test techniques such as springing.  Others have stalled whilst I get to grips with the art of lining.  I only finished the Dean Goods when I realised goods engines were no longer lined at my period.  I built an outside cylinder County to test clearances.

The PLAN is to build the trains in the order as they appear in the timetable.  My hope is to eventually replicate a day's timetable from 1912.  This might sound over ambitious but there were 90 train movements through the station of which most went and came back.  So that's 45 trains.  Some shuttled up and down all day and some formations were identical so the actual number will be fewer.  I think I can get by with 30 locos.  That is a lot less than some peoples RTR collections!  But being pre-grouping and LNWR/GWR all mine have to be built.

The starting point is a branch line train which was the first through the station in the morning and is quite simple.  The loco and carriages for this are all built and almost ready.  The next train was a GWR fast goods for which I have a choice of 3 Dean Goods but only one break van.

The problem with his approach is that managing it does become more like a job.  There is always the temptation for me to start something new and I have erred now and then with a few more new projects but otherwise the mojo might completely disappear.  I am hopelessly behind in carriage building.  The truth is I need the stock to test the locos.

However, the Special DX was the first LNWR loco I attempted.  I thought an 0-6-0 goods engine would be quite simple; how wrong I was.  When the instructions have a sheet of "special instrucions for P4" you are in for a challenge.  I won't bore readers with all the details but last night it ran superbly with a tender attached.  I had to raise the body slightly to match the tender which Im think has helped with the clearances which are TIGHT in P4 on such a slight loco.

The cab sides were quite a feature of Webb and pre-Webb locos.  Unlike a GWR engine like a Dean Goods, there are no internal springs in the cab.  The internal cab box shaped splashers form seats for both the driver and fireman.  On the left hand side of these was installed the screw reverser of which quite a lot of the associated workings were the other side of the spectacle plate which is why that was boxed in.  On the fireman's side there was other pipe work.   Anyway that's what it looks like on the GA drawings.  I have modelled the screw reverser (which casting comes with the kit) and you can see the reversing lever in the picture coming out of the box in front of the spectacle plate.  Pic of cab interior to follow showing reverser.  I have also since put on the cab roof and the buffer housings.

Having to build my locos in P4 helps to concentrate the mind.  Analysis of the working timetable shows that approx 90 trains passed through the station I am building on a week day.  So a max of 45 loco would cover all uses though some made the trip more than once so I am planning to build fewer.  I acquired a DCC system a couple of years ago and all locos thus far are chipped but DC enabled.  I have a couple of sound chips but have come to the conclusion that here is little point in sound on an express that does not stop;  for me the benefit of sound is in the starting and stopping.  For the record you don't need to programme the sound decoder to do this - it does it straight out the box.  So my investment in sound decoders will be limited.

Yes; I just need to finish some more wagons!

Edit PS: not to mention the missing dummy chairs on all the track!

Thanks Mikkel I would agree and the difference in colour is apparent in the flesh.

I have different versions of PP loco green, pre 1906 both dull and gloss and the later pre 1928 both dull and gloss.  I always plan to use the gloss on locos that are to be lined as it makes lining easier.  However for me the best shade comes from a couple of very old tins of pre 1928 dull that I have.  The paint looks almost black in the tin and goes on darkest and almost matt.  For me this looks the best shade and looks "right" to me.  Whether it is historically authentic is another matter.

The paint in these old tins is like jelly and needs careful stirring and mixing before applying via an airbrush.  Here is an example on 2524:

PS:  At one point in the past I briefly worked on the marketing for Barbour waxed jackets and spent the whole day once in a meeting discussing the shade of green on a shoe polish tin!  Those were the days...

My first kit was a K's Dean Goods.  That rapidly got converted to EM at which point I abruptly moved to P4.  During the period when career, marriage and family took over, I seem to have acquired 4 Dean Goods chassis and a load of Mallard etches.  I now have 3 completed Dean Goods and a Martin Finney kit still to build.  Bits of the original K's Dean Goods have been incorporated in most of them.

I have recently replaced a 1024 with a High Level coreless 1219 in a Wills Saddle tank mainly because I needed a shorter motor to make room for the DCC decoder.  I am quite happy with it.

2 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

I hope you get it sorted. Mine uses a rigid Comet chassis and their own gearbox and Mashima motor, with Markits wheels. I had a real struggle getting it to run well until I went up one motor size compared to what was recommended (there was just enough room under the Airfix body), and now it's easily one of my favorite runners, smooth, silent, stall-proof and able to shift a 30 wagon train without slipping. But it was a trial to get there and for most of the time it lived in the tupperware box of doom.

 

Good to hear you sorted it.  Which motor did you have.  As a naive newby when I returned to the hobby, the guy from Comet, alas no longer with us, sold me a Mashima 1015 with the DG chassis!  That's despite me telling him I modelled in P4 and so I had much more room for a bigger motor between the frames.  Mine has a 1224 underslung which was my motor of choice.  I'm yet to build 30 wagons and the current fiddleyard wouldn't' hold that many anyway.  We'll see what it can do when I get that far.

57 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Looks good to me. In what respect is not a good runner?

Despite using a GW wheel press and a B2B gauge, I find that the Gibson wheels can go on a bit tight if you are a bit over zealous with squeezing the wheelset together.  Apart from being undergauge, the wheels are tight against the bearings.  The first set wouldn't move and I broke the spokes trying to get them off with a wheel puller.  The key to Gibson wheels, according to Colin Seymour,  is to twist them off apparently.  However, the Comet chassis is curved behind the wheels so the are a bu66er to get hold of, particularly in P4 with razor sharp flanges.  I resorted to knocking the axle out with a centre punch.  The next set went on almost as tight but would just about move.  Still undergauge, it does run and I guess with a bit more running in it might improve.

There are benefits in making all the wheelsets removable but I built this with a fixed driven axle.  2478 above has a High Level Dean Goods chassis whereby all the wheelsets can drop out.  (It also has Ultrascale wheels which is another bonus and runs fine.)

28 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

A nice green.

 

Which one; the loco or tender?  Both are from the same tin of PP pre-1928 great western loco dull but the tender has come out gloss and lighter.

When all else fails, read the instructions.  I read on the Phoenix website that Precision Paints should be diluted 80:20 and sprayed with 20 psi.  I had always used a weaker 50:50 solution with less pressure but got runs and sags.  So I tried the new spec with a different, less fine airbrush on something else and it worked!  Have now changed the needle in my Iawata.

I also think the pre-1906 PP comes out even lighter but should be darker: