Les1952

To be fair to Gresley he had almost as many new locos cancelled due to the LNER not having the money to build them as he was able to have built in the later years. The O2 was a case in point with less than half of the planned locos actually built. Perhaps some of the O2s that were cancelled would have been used to replace GCR freight 4-6-0s. Looking at the streamliners, the first year of the Silver Jubilee gave a cost to income ratio of 18%- i.e the costs were only 18% of the money generated- or 550% operating profit- hence they money for A4s etc was very easy to find. Just a thought. Les

Moved and power nearly on... We have now moved into the new clubroom and the layout is standing on its end out of the way of the electrician. Following a long delay the electrician has arrived to install the ring main and fix the only one of the lights that club members hadn't been able to find a tube for. He also has to get two pairs of lamps that are currently on dodgy pull switches to work off the new wall switches by the door. Hopefully he'll be done before too long and we can get on with the layout.... Les Still no water in the loos yet....

Given that this was sent out to retailers at a time when couriers are ALL suffering the effects of Black Friday (and of everyone and their great aunt apparently buying more on line in one go than any of the postal services are able to cope with)- are we not expecting too much for Hornby's couriers to actually supply all of their retailers on the same day? Having said that it sounds as if the system to communicate with said retailers that a consignment has been dispatched needs looking at (to put it mildly). Just a thought Les Thinks- might exercise my bus pass early next week to see if my nearest shops have one in stock. edited to remove some of the effects of my dyslexic fingers....

To be fair to Hattons they aren't required to find the reason for a failure but as they have commissioned the model their job is to get it back to the manufacturer with a "sort and explain" rocket attached.... All the very best Les

My "Harry" gained a Geisl ejector and a name change to become one of Bickershaw's finest. How about a Geisl chimney or a Lambton cab on the Austerity? 2016-7 will do...... Les

For those wanting an excuse to buy one- two examples of Radial tanks getting a long way off track. The current Railway Mag describes four LSWR Radials being loaned to the Highland Railway during WW1 to work trains of anti-submarine mines from Kyle of Lochalsh to Digwall then to Alness and a nearby US Navy base (in trains of 11 wagons.) In addition before the LNER took over operation the Catterick Camp railway was worked by two Beyer Peacock tank locos, one of which was an ex-LSWR Adams radial. Apologies if this has been posted in this thread before. Les

In this month's Railway Magazine there is an article on the Highland railway's tribulations during World War 1. The Highland had Great Western steam railcar no.45 on hire from January 1818 to March 1924. It was used for shuttling Admiralty personnel between Dingwall and Invergordon. The other locos that surprised me were as follows- Anti-submarine mines were imported from North America at Kyle of Lochalsh. They were taken in 11-wagon trains to Dingwall, where the train reversed, then on to Alness where the train reversed again and to the US Navy sidings at Dalmore. Here they were assembled and taken by sea to Scapa Flow. What where used to haul these trains? Four loaned LSWR Adams Radial 4-4-2 tanks! Perhaps rule 1 needn't always stretch as far as we think...... All the very best Les

Not a lot going on... Been busy with Warley and changing the small car- the Punto needed parts costing a lot more than it is worth so it has made its last journey and been replaced. Progress with the crossing at the top of the bank. I've also decided that the bit I had to excavate down to board level might as well become a sludgy pond, so muddy grot and a small slice og box acetate did the trick. This still has to be edged in with slimy looking "grass" round the edges and perhaps a clump of evil weed..... Shows I need to get the vacuum cleaner out again before I do much more - and clean paint off the rails AGAIN before I try to run anything. The two painters were crying out for some kind of a cart. I spotted two of these in a box of random figures at Warley- unusual to find anything random like this at a big show. The other will go on the new German layout. More weeds needed at the wall bottom and the lane needs lightening a little. Plenty to do. Les

Still working at upgrades- intermittently. Cruel enlargement this- but it shows the attempts at disguising the line down the middle of the tram station. Not good enough so far- the next plan is to get or dig out some embossed pavement to make a reservation between the pillars and mount seats and shrub tubs on that..... All the very best les

Nice to have time today and just stand and gawp enthuse with no pressure to be somewhere else in the hall. Also good to finally put a face to a name..... Looking forward to seeing the whole layout at Grantham. All the best. Les

Answering a few of my own questions about Backworth No.4 I've found the relevant info spread across four different books... I've sent Dave a more detailed PM with scans of a couple of copyright pics I can't post here..... Backworth No.4 was converted to Gas Producer and Mechanical Stoker at Seaton Deleval by mid 1963 and ran in this condition until Backworth shed converted it back in mid 1967 retaining the air hole in the smokebox door. It was regarded as the strongest austerity Backworth had, having been well set up by the works and well maintained at the shed. They also had No.6 which had been converted at Ashington and wasn't as reliable. No.6 was converted back in 1966. The stoker projected below the frames at the back and there was a vertical plate to protect it from the swinging 3-link coupling. This would all be difficult to produce for a ready-to-run loco, but might make a 3D printing or lost wax opportunity for someone. There is only one stoker still in existence, apparently. This is at Statfold Barn and not attached to a loco. On lamp irons, Backworth removed lamp irons at some time between 1971 and 1973. No.4 would still have had a complete set when leaving Backworth in August 1967. Hope this lot is of use. Les

I can (just) fit a 13-coach train in the longest road of the Southbound fiddle yard, but prefer two shorter ones. I do have a simple rule on J26/27s Round spectacles- definitely J26 Balance weights to wheels - definitely J27 Otherwise could be either, look at the number. All the very best Les Does the tea pot make me a Tea-time Lord?

I've found another picture of the Backworth one, this time just before transfer away. By this time (spring 1967) it had had its original chimney restored. The IRS book on the class will give chapter and verse on its conversion, but my copy has gone into hiding. It did, however retain its gas valve smokebox door (which wasn't really clear in the other photo). Despite trying to thin out my showcase I've ordered a 71515 I don't really need just to clutter it up further........ All the very best Les BTW my pic of 71515 seems to show the tankside steps as red rather than black.....

Just to follow up the comment about cab shutters at Backworth- I've found a pic in a history (black and white) of No.4 with NATIONAL COAL BOARD on the side and a kylpoor chimney- and cab shutters. ID for this loco is Robert Stephenson & Hawthorn 7166 of 1944, new as WD 71512. Came to Backworth as 71512 in June 1961 from Newbattle Disposal Point. Transferred to Seaton Deleval in 9/62 and back to Backworth in 7/63. Renumbered No.4 before 9/1964- I don't have the date to hand. Transferred to Netherton Colliery 9/1967 following a month in Ashington works. Scrapped Sept 1969. I seem to remember a photo of it at Netherton with an ordinary chimney- did it regain this at Ashington works/ The other question is- did this loco also have a prominent mechanical stoker under the bunker? The undated photo is front-end and is clear enough to show only two lamp-irons on the front buffer beam- the middle one is missing. Hope this lot helps. BTW the pic I put up of 71515 (post #32) shows red wheel bosses..... Les

A couple of details- Backworth's wooden shutters- all locos ran with these. Backworth's cleanliness..... Note 71515 only had two lamp irons on the bunker! No.6 with WD/OE number showing through and showing Backworth didn't have bunker lamp irons at all, just a holder for an electric light- 6, 9, 48 and 49 were all the same in this respect, as were Stephensons 44 and 16- i.e. 6 out of 6 of the locos I photographed........ All the very best Les

It was 6 that had its WD number showing through- I think this one came via the Opencast Executive. Shame the Backworth loco is pristine black- they didn't get really strong on cleaning until the unlined blue period. BTW this one and the Cromford one really could do with wooden cab shutters (Backworth on one side only). Les PS- any chance of a couple of these (71515 and No.4) in N please? PPS - there were also two locos numbered 49 at Backworth at the same time (but not at the same time as the two numbered 48).

Hello. Again thanks, gents, for all the info. Firstly on Dawdon coal- it couldn't travel up the NCB line to South Hetton and Hawthorn Cokeworks as the two inclines were self-acting, which meant that wagons coming down had to be heavier than those going up as the weight difference was what made the incline work. These inclines were originally for coal coming down into Seaham Harbour but later for stone to be loaded into coasters for tipping at sea, rather like the stuff that was tipped from Sunderland pits. All that could go up the inclines were empties. One of the Marsden videos has some good footage of the inclines and of the South Hetton WDs working to the top. I've probably got a similar D20 photo on the coast line- though the trains were longer than I've room for. Through trains from Newcastle to Middlesbrough loaded to eight bogies. There are also records of occasional B1s finding their way onto these in the fifties but my B1s have enough options without taking on passenger. I suspect tender engines were rare as they had to be turned at each end where an A8, V1/3 or L1 (which were the usual power) would only need to run round and take water- or if a Teesside loco "drop back" to the next Southbound working without needing to go for turning first. One thing I did find out from reading through 1959 Trains Illustrateds- I picked up a very tatty bound set really cheaply- was that the Metrovick Co-Bos were run in from Middlesbrough to Newcastle via Sunderland and back on eight-coach trains said to be "Mark 1 stock". They also worked a Middlesbrough- Harrogate-Leeds-York-Middlesbrough turn, presumably with the same stock. I'd not really realised they were built at Stockton. I'd sold my Metrovick when planning this layout- I'll not replace it with another kit as there wasn't really enough room inside to chip it. If an r-t-r version appears then I have an excuse for buying one..... If there is an entry for Dawdon Colliery to Billingham ICI then the loco could well have been a Teesside J26, but how many can tell a J26 from a J27 on an N-gauge model? I can for some locos but I'm a bit of a geek..... My surviving pair are J27s- one isn't yet chipped. My J26 has died and donated its tender to another J25. Some pics- At the top of the slope from the coal drops the new smoother crossing by the new pointwork- makes it a bit more plausible that road wagons actually could have gone through the pit yard. Progress with bedding in the line into the screens where the point has been removed. The reason there are no pithead wheels at Hawthorn Dene- they've been taken down and are being scrapped- must get another welder and some more rust paint. It does look like a main line in front..... To whet the appetite for the new German layout- this weekend's purchases for that line running in on HD. You'll not find that opne in a working timetable (or out at exhibition.....) And finally.... Model railways are built on tea and coffee, in my case mostly tea. My teapot was more than a little past it so I've treated myself to a new one. It is of course bigger on the inside...... All the very best Les nore typos removed, but never all.

Thanks for all this info- Now a teaser- I've got a picture of coal fulls at the South end of Dawdon with a J27 (or could be a J26) on the front and something (possibly No.60, a WD saddletank with a Lambton cab) giving it an almighty shove up the rear - seemingly working a bit harder than the J26/J27. So from this I deduce that not all Dawdon coal went out through Seaham staithes, and that odd loads at least went off to Teesside. Similarly there is a picture of another J27 arriving at Dawdon from the South with what looks like coal fulls- could this be a train of Easington, Horden or Blackhall stuff for shipping at Seaham? Certainly these trains weren't the normal run of the mill, but as the coastal pits didn't all work the same seam there would be differences in the quality of the coal produced. I also remember sitting on Seaham station for an hour after just missing a train (not long after the end of BR steam, I'd been trying and failing to get into Seaham Colliery) and two class 37s came through with coal empties, one Northbound and the other southbound........ There is a last week picture of one of West Hartlepool's WDs on the inland route. They also worked to Thrislington via Billingham, and there are a couple of good pics of them between West Hartlepool and Seaton Carew on Southbound coal, but this could have come down the inland route to Old Hartlepool. I do need an excuse to run coal trains as they were the staple diet of the line- if I've set the layout on the only stretch that didn't have any I'm going to have to bend reality a bit. the D20 is very much a flight of fancy as they seem to have been very irregular on the line since WW2, most passenger being V3 or L1 hauled up until the first DMUs in the mid-fifties- these were 8-car sets by the way! An 8-car DMU was a replacement for an L1 + 8 coach train. I lived at Darlington until 1970, then three years at Durham, five at (West) Hartlepool and two at Eston before moving to Notts at the start of 1980. Oddly enough there is a picture in the NERA Express, (no.215- the centre spread) with an aerial view of Faverdale works, and in the lower right is the house I grew up in drying out after building before the first owners moved in....... All the very best Les

Just a thought- I have 6 double sockets in the workshop and STILL have two multi-outlets and two extension bars........ Against that I'm not forever plugging and unplugging from hard-to-reach wall points. TWO double sockets in each corner? Les

Another six-coupled tank to whet the appetite. RSH 18 inch outside-cylindered job, one of the ten mopst powerful 0-6-0 tank types in the UK.... Pics of No.16 in service at Backworth and awaiting restoration at Tanfield, and of the restored No.38 at Tanfield. Just a thought.... Les

Still awaiting the move... Not a lot of point moving clubroom until the power is on (and for that matter the water in the loos....) Progress report shows the partition is up and mostly sealed both sides, and the floor is painted. Our area is at the far end. We still don't have our own light switches (or for that matter a complete set of lighhts, and the power points need adding to. Cleaning is continuing while we await the electrician. On the layout front, we've been trying out more of Trevor's buildings on site- ready to dig foundations once the move is done. This is one of trevor's competition pieces. The diorama will be cut in two and this end will be installed at track level with the fancy side of the tower facing the punters. This end of the same diorama will go next to it but with the PW trolley facing the track and thereby largely undeen by the punter. Meanwhile Geoff has almost completed the station cottages. Jim and I have been up at the new clubroom while all this has been going on, getting lungfuls of dust..... All the very best les

Many thanks for all the comments and compliments, gents. I'll try to deserve the latter... The roster for goods trains on Hawthorn Dene at Grantham show last September looks a bit like this (which includes "flights of fancy" and "might-have beens") Southbound loaded 21-tonners - coal (long train) with J27 usually Northbound empty 21-tonners (long train) with tender-first B1 Northbound steel girders (bogie bolsters) with Tyne Dock O1 - sets this as a Teesside to South Shields train Southbound empty bogie sulphate wagons with West Hartlepool WD - no idea if these ran on the Coast (probably not) but they all say "Empty to Haverton Hill" on the side so the back story is they're coming from Sunderland docks... Southbound fast goods, mainly vans, with B1/V2/pacific. Includes fish so probably started at South Shields and will pick up again at West Hartlepool Nothbound and Southbound slow freights with J25 etc Southbound 5-plank tarpaulins with Class 24 (25/0) and brake tender- thought of as limestone from Fulwell or Hawthorn quarry. Northbound coal fulls, Blackhall or Horden to Sunderland docks or Tyneside power station, Class 24- may become Q6 Northbound oil train (not really prototypical but local tankers from Robbies) with J39 Northbound and Southbound parcels- I was worried about the Northbound one being too short but have found a picture of a Sunderland to York parcels with three bogies and a brown van hauled by a V2, just as well as my V2s are weaklings.... There are also two Northbound and one Southbound expresses with Pacifics , a local with a D20 and celerestories including an NER brake, a DMU, 2MT with inspection saloon and a Class 37 with one or two brake vans. The list will change/develop as I get more exhibitions under my belt. The sound fitted locos are lemberg on Southbound express, the West Hartlepool WD and the 2MT on the inspection saloon. The two Southbound ones are stopped by the signal and the saloon stops to inspect the PW gang.... I do know that three expresses is one too many. Hope this helps. Les

Hopefully I'll get further North than Nottingham once the layout has appeared in Railway Modeller. All the A3s are Dapol and run very well, as do the A4s. One A3 lost its piston rod from its guide and had a warranty repair to fix it and a second had a broken pin on delivery casued by a transit bounce, again fixed underr warranty but there are 11 A3s and 5 A4s and all run very reliably- the only faults to manifest themselves are a couple of Bachmann decoders inside them losing their addresses after shorting out when derailed due to operator error- these chips will be replaced by Lenz or Zimo as and when I can afford it. Lemberg with sound is very impressive- I've had it reblown with a Pauliebanger sound file rather than the Youchoose one as the whistle is more impressive on Paul's. I'll have to try for another video of it. All the very best. Les

Hello- Thanks for the pics. I think I'll stick to the 5-plank wagons with tarps, as these were used elsewhere for stone and the only wagon photos I have at Fulwell Quarry are 5-planks (I've yet to find wagon pics from Hawthorn Quarry which would definitely have been routed along the coast). I've spent quite a look at the Chris Davies pics (and trawled through 806 of them) but couldn't find any "Hawthorn Colliery" (which I assume to be Hawthorn Combined Mine). One or two of the locations seem a little suspect- "Seabank Colliery" is most likely Seaham Colliery, and "NCB Loco Juno" was a seaham Harbour Dock Company machine. Can't fault the choice or quality of the photos, though! Some pics of mine from 1972 at Hawthorn Combined Mine and South Hetton Colliery. A couple of the steamers. Beta ex- Brandon Pit House. The Hawthorn Combined Mine was a bit further North and in No.2 Area- I've set Hawthorn Dene just over the border in No.3 Area. To finish with, one at Shotton in 1975 or so (I forget the exact year but it was the year before it closed) Having been a bit of a catalyst for the Q6 I wonder If I can persuade Dave Jones to follow his Hudswell (Boldon No.1513 was this type) with an outside-cylindered Hawthorn- the 16" would do nicely, No.63 at Philadelphia worked from South Hetton at one time...... All the very best Les unusually this time not edited for typos, but having started the post on the laptop I had to change computers when under Win8/IE it wouldn't manipulate the images. As a result I had to dash downstairs to use the machine on the desk....

Some more rebuilding Further testing of the colliery showed that the point from the loop to the pit itself is also shorting- it seems I have a point with duff insulation as this shorts when set to the yard and with no power supply beyond it. I've looked at the layout and I didn't need the point (which is just as well as I'd have had to remove the flight to get the new one in). I've replaced the point with plain track and the lines now all run. Just a little cleaning and removal of surplus ballast to make it run smoothly with all locos. A couple of test shots for the pictues I've used on UK Model Shops. the light area on the bank is sunlight shining over next door's roof (just) and onto that end of the layout.... Hawthorn Dene is now listed in the eLayouts section under 3mm or less Nottinghamshire. Hopefully it will attract an exhibition or two.... All the very best Les