Dungrange

Andrew, The bottling plant that Arran linked to is at Culburnie, near Kiltarlity to the south of Beauly and therefore road transport must have been used to transport the water from the bottling plant to sidings at Millburn Yard, Inverness. This is the only local railhead, since the station at Beauly is no more than a very short passenger halt. I've no idea what type of road vehicles were used.

I think that you are correct that many of the BP logos were probably removed from the BP Oils wagon fleet as a result of the sale of the refinery and chemical works to Ineos (which probably means I need to remove the BP logos from most of the green TEA and TTA wagons that I own). However, I don't think that the rail logistics business was ever sold to Ineos and the VTG newsletter that I linked to in my previous post specifically states that the deal was with BP Oils. Although BP decided to divest its worldwide olefins and derivatives business in 2005: the sale included the Refinery and connected petrochemicals complex; the sale did not include the Kinneil Crude Oil stabilisation terminal, which BP retained and continues to operate. The Kinneil terminal is where the pipeline system from the Forties field comes ashore and this crude oil is either export to third parties via pipeline to the Dalmeny tank farm, and subsequently shipped out from the Hound Point marine terminal or it is fed into the refinery (now owned by Ineos). Since BP Oil retained ownership of the Forties pipeline system, the Kinniel terminal, Dalmeny tank farm and pipeline and the Hound Point terminal (ie the logistics side of the business), I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that the rail logistics part of the business was also retained rather than sold to Ineos. However, I'm sure once BP realised the capital cost of a wagon replacement programme, they decided that they would switch to a contract with VTG. Anyway, we seem to be deviating from the type of wagon that Revolution Trains are actually producing: the 2006 built wagons, which it appears didn't actually appear on Grangemouth services until 2015. :-(

The answer would appear to be sometime after 2010 (which explains why in my time period I have only seen the BP green tanks). The VTG website has a newsletter archive and newsletter number 15 (summer 2010) has an article on the front cover about VTG's acquisition of the BP Oil wagon fleet. This deal in March 2010 was for the purchase and leaseback of 124 tank wagons operating out of the Grangemouth refinery. It would appear that this removed the need for BP Oil to renew their wagon fleet and they became eligible for VTG’s wagon replacement programme, with the newest wagons being assigned to the highest mileage contracts. I assume that the BPO prefix started to be replaced with VTG from this time and as the ex-BPO wagons were inspected or maintained, some were taken out of service and replaced with the 2006 built versions that Revolution Trains are producing. This would therefore suggest that there may be photographic evidence of these wagons on flows out of Grangemouth as early as 2010, although I have yet to find a photograph this early.

Thanks - I can see that now. Clearly my wagon spotting skills are not up to scratch. It seems that I also missed the fact that there is another VTG TEA further back in that same rake that I missed (the fifth wagon)! I continue to see if I can find anything regarding when these wagons first appeared in Scotland, but I remain tempted. That said, I'm now tempted by a Colas Class 60 as well!!

The Revolution trains website (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/category/tea/) states: "23 of VTG’s red tankers have been moved to Scotland for use on Grangemouth traffic. The wagons involved are VTG88115-37. These were formerly used for Murco traffic from South Wales, and are in all-over red livery with blue VTG lettering. The wagons were built in 2006 and are of the same type being offered by Revolution. This is believed to be the first time the red VTG tankers have been seen north of the border. They were moved north on Friday June 11th 2015. 60011 took the train as far as Carlisle, where 66170 took over". I note that transfer was just over 12 months ago as you have stated, which explains why all of the red VTG tankers I have seen photographs of seem to be behind a Colas locomotive. I haven't come across any photographs of the grey ones on Grangemouth trains within my time period (I agree that they all look like 1960s wagons), but as you say, there could be several plausible imaginary scenarios. After all, if the location is fictitious, the flows definitely are too. What does appear to be the case is that they don't operate in uniform block trains and since I have a couple of BP Green Bachmann TEAs, a mixed rake should look okay.

I'm happy with my Bachmann Class 170 and don't have any specific negatives to highlight, although with the lighting being incandescent bulbs rather than LEDs I find they are much less bright that other DMUs and diesel locomotives. It's something that I may look to change at a later date with a lighting kit from Express Models, but as others have said, it is not DCC ready and therefore I doubt I'll do anything about the lighting until I decide to go DCC (the plan for the next layout). As JohnR has highlighted, some layouts simply need a Class 170. Class 158 and 170 are critical to a layout representing central Scotland, so I agree that you need to simply decide what you want. If you need a Class 170 model then the Bachmann model is the best on offer and as far as I am concerned the model looks like the prototype that it is meant to represent. Apart from not being DCC ready, I'm not aware of other negative comments.

Thanks Ben. I'm not trying to replicate a specific flow on a particular date, but a fictitious, somewhere in central Scotland circa 2007ish type of layout (ie the EWS rather than DB Schenker era). The VTG Blue with Enviro markings are therefore a little too modern (although they look nice) as is the Greenenergy livery. However, the others all seem to fit my time period, although the plain grey VTG branded tanks would probably be most appropriate from your response. Looking at Flickr there seems to be plenty of photographs with a Colas locomotive (most frequently a Class 60), but few from the EWS era. My wagon spotting skills are perhaps not up to scratch, but this photo on Flickr seems to show one of the VTG grey wagons immediately behind EWS 66200 at the head of a rake of otherwise green TEAs, so it would appear that an isolated wagon in a rake of older wagons is permissible. This photo on Flickr also seems to include a single VTG grey wagon in the rake behind DB branded 66080, although it is the second wagon in this case, while in this photo on Flickr, the first two wagons appear to be the VTG branded grey wagons heading up a train of otherwise green TEA . Unfortunately these are all 2015 photographs, so I guess even the VTG grey ones would have been rare in my time period. Interestingly, these wagons seem to make up the majority of trains headed by Colas motive power and the red ones seem to be particularly common. Looks like I need to keep searching for justification.

These look like being nice models, but I have a few dumb questions about the prototype before deciding on whether to order any of these, how many and in what liveries. I know that the first wagons entered service in 2006, but when did each of the different liveries being produced first appear on the network? I can't see this information on the website. I assume these liveries were not all running in the early years (which is the period I am most interested in). The flow map on the Revolution website (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TEA_map.jpg) implies that all of the flows out of Grangemouth would be in VTG grey livery, yet the sample consists (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/TEA-sample-consists.pdf) from 2015 show a mixture of VTG red and VTG grey (with a single VTG blue wagon in one consist). Have these only been 'mixed up' in recent years? I'm assuming that each livery was allocated to a specific flow when new, but have since moved around a little due to changes in demand for the wagons on particular flows, repairs etc. Also, when these wagons were introduced first, did they always operate as block trains of near identical wagons, or were they mixed with older types initially (ie wagons of the type produced by Bachmann). I already have a couple of the Bachmann TEAs.

Is he not the look-out carrying rolled up red and green flags?

I note that the Oxford version is now in stock at Hattons, but the images seem to have white handrails. Were they just black on a pre-production sample? See http://www.ehattons.com/151363/Oxford_Diecast_76KOM002_Stobart_Rail_Excavator/StockDetail.aspx

More likely a container has fallen off the deck into the sea.

D9502, If that is a recent S-Kits price list, can you let me know whether George still produces the resin bodies for the second batch of MHA wagons to fit on the Hornby HAA / MHA chassis? If so, what is the current price? Also, do S-Kits still produce etched walkways for Bachmann tank wagons? I've a couple of TEA and half a dozen TTA wagons that I would like to upgrade to etched walkways and I understand that S-kits used to do these. Again, what is the current price? Hopefully I'll be able to put together a first order, as I want one of the CAIB/VTG bogie well wagons, which according to the list above is wagon kit 14. I was never sure what the kit cost until now.

I know the feeling. I ordered Part 1 of the Stobart Trucks collection and the World of Stobart last July and I have still not seen the first truck from the Stobart Trucks collection more than 9 months later - I've now cancelled that collection. I am told that they have resent the first model and the response to my last e-mail was that I will receive it this month, but I will just wait and see. The first part of the World of Stobart collection did eventually arrive in, I think, December, after several e-mails. Since then I have received Parts 2 and 3 (albeit the coasters were missing from the last delivery, which they will apparently resend) and the Class 66 has also apparently been sent (ie an invoice has appeared on the website), although it has not as yet turned up. Consistency of delivery definitely seems to be a problem with Atlas Editions. I will however persevere for the road / rail plant and if I receive the Saro crash tender anytime soon, it will go on e-bay if people are willing to pay £200! It's not a model I particularly want.

The Exeter & Teign Valley Railway seem to own one of these and halfway down the page on restoration (http://www.teignrail.co.uk/production.php) is the following text. The trolley had a dowel beneath the driver’s seat and two aluminium cradles beneath the rear seat for stowage of the turntable. Original parts were measured up at Buckfastleigh and an “Improved Wickham Turntable” made at Christow. The turntable centre has a captive disc, floating on grease, on which the beam rests. The ends of the rails are articulated, so that when turning the clips are folded out of the way and when stowed the rails do not overhang. It has been tested up to 17 cwt.; the trolley weighs 16 cwt.

Yes, that's the one that I was referring to, but unfortunately I typed left instead of right. Doh!!!

Yes, it works for me. I assume you are referring to the building on the right of the image and the view is in almost exactly the opposite direction from the image in post #160. It is certainly a very cramped and busy site. Edited to change 'left' to 'right'.

Can you select the individual image first and then copy and paste the address bar URL? eg http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/London-Transport-Steam/i-LQ7rmQ2/A The part of the URL is individual to each photograph as I'm also not sure which image you are referring to.

I should be there with Edinburgh and Lothian MRC, probably on the Saturday. At least four of our club members regularly post on RMWeb, so I'm sure there will be a few more from the West of Scotland, who just haven't noticed this thread!

.... Has Challenge 2015 now become Challenge 2016?