southern42

Info and photos of 517s and 3571 " http://www.gwr.org.uk/no4-coup-tanks.html I knew I had seen a 517 on a passenger service! This one on a run from Southall down the Brentford branch, 1900s. I have one of those (Southall numbered) steam rail motors on order! Couldn't resist! Looks like I need a 517 to go with it! Now, see where travelling beyond your own thread leads to! One of the delights of this parish! Info @ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Trumpers_Crossing_Halte_(postcard).jpg Another search of early vehicles has led me back to Riley, Great Western Album no. 2 with info & pics of 0-6-0T Wolverhampton 1016 class built between 1867 and 1871, and 517 class 541, both at Cheltenham, though. Also, some reference pictures for our O gauge layout in the pipeline - to confirm a suggestion from Castle of this parish (and Didcot Railway Centre), that we could use a Siphon G to carry milk churns behind an 0-4-2T (14xx in this instance) in the early 50s. So, never a bother to look up something for someone else. They always show up something of delight, whether relevant or not! And when it is for someone else, it is not only intuitive it is also most rewarding. Guess that is why I ended up in the sort of jobs that I did, and still do as a volunteer! Polly

Right. Here we go! Allocations Corwen 1st January 1901 Total 13 (Lyons, p.76) Class 3571 0-4-2T: 3572, 3574, 3575, 3578, 3579, 3580 Class 654 0-6-0ST: 654, 758, 768, 775, Class 1501 0-6-0 ST: 1501, 1560 Glad to be of help, Chris. Polly

Glad the info was useful, Chris. I hope you will not be disappointed with the book. 517s were indeed 0-4-2Ts. At Southall, they were used on passenger trains, "presumably for branch work." (Hawkins, Great Western Engine Sheds, London Division, 1987, p.130) 1st January 1901, Corwen is noted as having six of the 3571 class, a continuation of the 517s. (Lyons, Great Western Engine Sheds, 1837-1947) Polly

As you do not have the book I have extracted the details from the historical section, 4th-5th pages. As you see, not a lot, although he does go into mid line workings for the class F freight (I will post these if you think they will be of help/interest). Ruabon to Barmouth details from the GWR Service book of May 1907. Down direction. W G Rear highlights the first through working Ruabon to Dolgellau as a class F freight leaving Ruabon yard at 4.20am arriving at Dolgellau at 9.45. It also ran on Sundays. The first down passenger train was the 7.50am from Ruabon arriving Dolgellau at 9.45am. Up direction. Four passenger workings ran between Dolgellau and Ruabon, the last through working being the 7.35pm Mail train arriving at Ruabon at 9.45pm. Three goods trains left Dolgellau for Corwen with no through goods workings. Rear also states that most of the duties were worked by Corwen locomotive dept. Polly

Do you have Railways of North Wales: The Llangollen Line Ruabon to Barmouth by W. G. Rear & N. Jones? Pub 1990, 2012. Although most of it, understandably, centres around the 1950s-60s. [edit] The Llangollen Line, Ruabon to Barmouth: Historical section [close edit] (first page, in the book), gives an outline, based on the GWR Service book for May 1907, of the train workings on the line with times on the 4th & 5th pages (the pages themselves are not numbered). Working through the Stations, and I mean work, you can find snippets of information that might be helpful for how things were done along the line although, I find, you have to work even harder to determine what period / date the info refers to (but that might just be me!). The text can seem vague at times, e.g. On LLandrillo: "...Specific instructions were set down in the Sectional Appendix to the Working Timetables..." with no dates/periods when the specific practice began/ended but one could possibly conjecture that some of the workings had already been in force. Some bits of early info and practices can be picked out from the coverage but specific dates can be lacking. I love the book, mainly because of our interest in the Llangollen Railway, but I do find it hard to determine, sometimes, which period the author(s) are referring to. The illustrations are well captioned and informative, although, as with any caption, it might not mention the bit in the illustration you are interested in. Most of the photos are 1950s-60s so there is a distinct lack of early locos and trains, but landscapes in these parts were slow to change, and changes to track and T&T, etc is covered in places. So, if it points out that a line was doubled in 1924, say, you would know it was single before then, but it may have been double then singled before that. As I said, you have to work at it! Interesting, nonetheless, and a lovely colour Cover picture of Llangollen Station, 22nd August 1953 with a track layout that is distinctly different to today's preservation one! I probably would not have noticed that ten years ago! If you have the book yourself, I hope that bit of info is of interest to someone. _________ Best wishes Polly

' morning all from red dragon land. HAPPY MAYDAY to all ( the traditional Mayday that is!) Hope you have all got your Maypoles set for social distance Maypole Dancing... HAPPY BIRTHDAY KZ and have a great day. Our family calendar photos for APRIL, which I created for the kids in their various locations, had one granddaughter sitting in a yellow car, and the other with her head through the hole of a big yellow sunflower on standup board with the added words: You are may SUNSHINE! Today, turn the page to MAY, and one of the granddaughters is up under the umbrella with her other Grandma (at the zoo) and the words: I'm singing in the RAIN! I got that one right then! After all the glorious weather we have had, I am delighted to have the garden watered by Mother Nature this month! Even so, the overcast and wet weather yesterday dampened my spirit a bit. I was also waiting for Ray to bring back the scissors from the shed so I could cut up a piece of cloth from an old t-shirt to oil the old fife and, more especially, the new fife so that I could try it out. And when I did, wow, I was not expecting such a rich sound for such a high instrument. I was expecting a pretty good sound because of Instrument descriptions and also from a few YouTube videos, which are not the best sound sources, anyway, but when you hear and feel the sound, and I do not pretend to be other than a mediocre player, you know you have a good one! So, the excitement did me the world of good. First tune? Brian Boru's March... but not to this standard! I wish! Just goes to show what you can do with a tube of timber! Fitt and Elfie inspired. Play safe. _________ Best wishes Polly

If this helps. In E.Lyons 'Great Western Engine Sheds 1837-1947' p.156 Ruabon, the diagram shows turntable (35ft) and engine shed (90ft x 20ft) though the track is assumed. Date 1846 (opened) - 1854 (closed), so a coaling stage looks likely. No allocations give (unknown). Polly

' afternoon all. Good news from yesterday. I managed to order some bufferbeam numbers for the Thames Valley Rail Tour pannier tank 9773: Modelmaster Decals OO LMS Locomotive Lettering and Numbers 1928-1947 Serif Style Straw Colour LM004 from AnticsOnline. Few and far between it seems at the moment, but I found one - the last in stock, at that! Expensive for just four characters but if I had it done professionally it would cost me even more so this lady has decided to take the plunge and have a go herself: no brainer, really, on this occasion! Now, for some photos of a very possible set of coaches for the Thames Valley Rail Tour. A set of three coaches, namely Bulleid Set 968, being from the same era, area and still in service in 1965, is a realistic proposition for GWRd in the absence of a RTR Set from series 770-793, and an acceptable visual substitute for the actual set, Bulleid Set 770. Set 968 coaches, below, being shorter at 59ft, as against 64ft of Set 770, would be better for a small layout. It is just a pity it was only made up of Brake coaches so no Opens (SO) to be more representative of Set 770. But they look Southern, don't they? And we have them so no extra cost here! Of course, we will have to have them full of passengers rail enthusiasts with their heads sticking out of the windows. BSK CK BSK When it is finished, I shall have to add GWR 9773 to the rake to complete the train in the Southern cabinet or get my own cabinet (GWR!) and put the train in that! Do I see a hands off sign across the room?! Friends really. Er...hum...social distancing please! Keep safe. _________ Best wishes Polly

The 645 is looking good. It is helpful see how others accomplish things, both enlightening and encouraging. On the topic of posting...I had almost stopped. One GWRd page covered at least to Merry Christmases and Happy New Years with not much in between but uninterrupted time available in Lockdown has given me the motivation to start something knowing I can keep going on a more or less daily basis. That has given me purpose to restart posting and posting gives me the impetus to keep the modelling going and view the modelling of at least a few others. I just hope I can keep up the momentum when life goes back to being a bit more erratic. _________ Best wishes Polly

This is coming on a treat, Neal. I do admire those who model pre their own era - Brave, is what I call it - I have trouble enough modelling own times! The buildings, with all their different facets are so intriguing. Brave, also to remodel. It must be devastating, at times, to see something that you have already put a lot of energy into and now needs a lot of work and so much more time spent it, but then you will probably achieve a higher standard of finish due to experience, knowledge and other things modellers seem to develop. ________ Best wishes Polly

Writing this while listening to that composer new to John (and me). Thanks John for posting the videos. My bit of creativity took all afternoon, my knees getting more exercise than they would have had I been able to get out on the bike. A lot of cutting up of foam insert on the cutting mat down on the floor - more space and you should have seen the mess - all cleared up while dinner was cooking! And I shall not mention my knees - I may not be able to get out of bed or down the stairs tomorrow! Anyway, I got thus far with the fife case. Cut base layer to size and put in place. Play around with foam and intruments and decide that the outer inserts of 10mm and the inner ones of 20mm would be the better arrangement. Once laid out, the foam inserts on the lefthand side were not going to house the small bottle of oil satisfactorily so the bottle will go in the accessory compartment in front and I will rearrange the instruments and corresponding foam inserts, tomorrow. Then another stint putting the foam in the lid to make sure all goes to plan. Finally, start glueing everything in place, tomorrow, with a bit of luck. ' night all and nos. Fitt and Elfie are wondering what I am up to... __________ Best wishes Polly

' evening all. Interlopers A bit more digging as I noticed that Ex-LMS 46509 (1A Willesden) was photographed not with the Midland four figure train reporting number, as I had assumed, but with SR Steam Locomotive Headsignals 1944 - white discs - for Route 21 'Waterloo to Clapham Junction' (among other routes),* the first two names listed on the Itinerary of the Thames Valley Rail Tour as listed at https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/650725lc.html. The discs carry the duty number '1' preceded by two small letters or letter and number which are too blurred to be certain. * http://www.semgonline.com/headcodes/sheadcodes/04.html So, since ex-LMS 46509 is not carrying a Midland route number, why was the pannier tank 9773 doing so? Because that was all that was available? I have not come across a photo of BR 80154 on the Southern return section of the tour so I can only assume it carried Southern route discs though it is only of interest as it will not be portrayed, but a photo of 80154 for the record would be good. Hopefully, there will be some progress on the brassy bits tomorrow. Take care, be safe. _______ Best wishes Polly

' morning all. RMweb minute silence: NHS and care workers who have lost their lives. May they rest in peace and comfort come to those who mourn. Mother Nature has kindly watered the grass seed and plants and everything else, besides. That is one job I will not have to do this afternoon. It is drying up so it looks like I may get my bike ride on the spot outside after all. Sorry knees if you thought you were getting the day off! Plans for today: fitting foam into the fife case and thinking about fitting some 4mm brassy lamp irons. Take care, be safe, and saveasmuchspaceasyoucan. BUT NOT WHERE SOCIAL DISTANCING IS CONCERNED . _________ Best wishes Polly

Sohowmanymorehappyhipposinthemuddypondcanyougetifyoudeleteanyspacearoundthem,then?

Then, has Word done the same, with a wider space between sentences than words? Hat...coat... I use Mac Pages...

' morning all. Hornby Bulleid 3 Set 968* Livery: Malachite to Crimson Lake and Cream December 1953 then to BR(S) Green July 1957 R4886 – BR(s) Bulleid 59′ Diagram 2316 corridor composite No. S5714S from Set 968 in BR(s) green livery R4888 – BR(s) Bulleid 59′ Diagram 2121 corridor brake 3rd No. S2851S from Set 968 in BR(s) green livery R4888A – BR(s) Bulleid 59′ Diagram 2121 corridor brake 3rd No. S2852S from Set 968 in BR(s) green livery 1963 Set 968 Bournemouth West – Bath** BSK 2851 SK 51 SK 52 CK 5714 CK 5885 SK 53 SK 55 BSK 2852 Strengthened Mar-63 disbanded c.1965 * This and other sets: https://grahammuz.com/tag/bulleid-59ft-coaches/ ** https://www.bloodandcustard.net/Bulleid59ft01.html Off to think about those lamp irons, now! Take care, be safe. _________ Best wishes Polly

' afternoon evening all, Well the sun IS WAS shining today - THREE parcels. First to arrive this morning was some pick n pluck foam to convert my old artist's box into a case for my fifes and tin whistle - job in progress. Test with packaging material but a bit on the thin side. Test with some strips of spare foam we use in our exhibition storage boxes. And the 1"x 1" foam that came today. I want to put down a base sheet next then space the rows to suit the instruments. It will not be the sheet underneath on the left as this is too thick. I have a thinner sheet of the dark grey stuff which will do nicely. The two pale sheets came as a pair. I will find a use for it! There is plenty of the 1"x1" squares to do the lid. Perfect! Next to arrive were the Brassmasters GWR head & tail l*c* lamp brackets and the bore oil for the fifes. So no toot on the flute but I did fit in a bike ride on the spot out in the sun. Thankfully, the wind, a chilly north easterly, was coming from behind me so, the warmth from the sun on my knees enabled me to keep going the whole 20mins. Late posting, as earlier in the day my laptop informed me halfway through both this post and my own thread that a certain website, mentioning no names, was not playing ball, then the evening was spent catching up on the final exhibits (pages) @ the (virtual) SWAG show. So good that I now have that horrible show's-all-over feeling...Don't worry, it will pass. I have some catching up on here to do now. Fitt and Elfie keeping going... Stay safe. Be happy. ' night all and nos da. _________ Best wishes Polly

And these arrived, today.

Interlopers! So, details for the Thames Valley Rail Tour 1965 which ran along both Western AND Southern^ metals! Ex-LMS 46509* (1A Willesden): London Waterloo^-Kensington Olympia 6106: Kensington Olympia-Southall Brentford bay 9773: Southall- Windsor & Eton Central 6106: Windsor & Eton Central-Reading General BR Class 4 80154 (70A Nine Elms): Reading General-London Waterloo. * That would explain the train reporting number and shows the importance of being in possession of ALL the details! I should have known better! ^This would explain the use of Southern coaching stock: BSK, 2x SO, RB, SO, BSK (one BSK was 4302S)** including SR set 770.*** SR set 770 consists of Bulleid 64ft Semi open bk 3rd - Composite - Semi open bk 3rd**** ** 4302 Semi-open Brake Third in Mike King, An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches 2003, 2nd Revised Ed, 2008, p.137 ***. https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/650725lc.html **** bbishop @ https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126365-br-southern-region-coaches/&do=findComment&comment=2860274) According to Bulleid & BR Mk 1 Coaches, Southern Region Allocations, p.6 'Sets 770-793 were to be used only on services Waterloo-West of England and Waterloo-Bournemouth-Weymouth, and remained on these services for many years. The corridor sides of the CK and second BSK faced the same way, usually to the S. Sets also appeared facing the opposite way. Set 770 was the only set of the early series to be re-formed, in 1963, to a 6 RS set for Bournemouth services.' So, was the 6 car set of coaches on the Thames Valley Rail Tour the same 6 RS set from Bournemouth? It seems likely. Shall we add detective work to the list? As an appropriate RTR set (of 3 car, 6 car or otherwise) is not available, I have my eyes on these, on His shelf... but don't tell him! I am Dunin, now. Back again soon. Keep well. Stay safe. _________ Best wishes Polly

' morning all. I am back from yesterday's RMweb's (Virtual) SWAG Members Day and what an excellent and inspiring Show it has been. Indeed I got to bed quite late... and still have many exhibits (pages!) to view. But back to the job in hand. I had been wondering why the Midland train reporting number was over the smokebox door rather than on it. On a quick search, I see that it hangs on a straight grab rail mounted on the LMS door as opposed to the curved rail round the door as on GWR which might explain why the number is mounted above, presumably, on the lamp bracket. So, there we go, more LMS/Midland practice in place! More interlopers coming up... _________ Best wishes Polly

Happy Birthday Andy. Have a great day. Best wishes to MrsP And carry on with the Blast from the Past. I was certainly inspired by Trebudoc when I saw it. Polly

What a brilliant virtual show and it has taken from late afternoon - now (with doing evening meal in between) and I have only got to the start of page 11 and putting a few pennies in the charity box held out by this chap called Andy outside the door. I shall be back tomorrow see the rest of the show so please do not go away - just yet! Many thanks to all for the time and effort you people have put in, and chuffed to see our former layout, Camel Quay on page 3, now in Eltel's good hands. [Terry, I'm still waiting to see a picture of that china clay coaster 'Kay O'Lynn', by the way!] _________ Best wishes Polly

Just downed a mugadecacoffee so off for my bike ride on the spot. No sun but no chilly wind either so a good time to go. Stay safe and keep out of trouble in the meantime. _________ Best wishes Polly

' afternoon all. Now, did I say fun? Mention detail? How about making suppositions...? Like this is Western, right? Well, think again. I spent part of yesterday evening finding suppliers of detailing bits and pieces for 9773 and 6106. For the occasion, the Thames Valley Rail Tour, 9773 was dressed in GWR, supposedly. In other words, '9773' was on the bufferbeam rather than in BR fashion on the smokebox door BUT, look closely, the numbers are not in GWR lettering. Oh! No! More like LMS serif lettering in plain straw yellow which was applied to their goods and shunting engines. And to continue the LMS theme, the loco is sporting the Midland quadruple reporting number (1X06), unlike the Western triple reporting number (X06) carried by 6106! How things got mixed up in those days! No wonder BR rebranded itself! So, Sankey Scenics for the Midland train reporting set which I hope will weather down nicely, and Fox-Transfers, which does an "ornate" triple panel, for the Western set, as well as cab plates and power classification discs. Rail Tour 25/07/1965. At the time 9773 was allocated to Oxford and 6106 to Southall. 9773: 81F Oxford 08/11/1964 Withdrawn 12/1965 6106: 81C Southall 10/01/1965 81F Oxford 19/09/1965. Withdrawn 12/1965 (Preserved 81E Didcot) (brdatabase.info) Interestingly, going by photos, neither loco appear to carry a shed plate and 6106 carried neither smokebox number nor bufferbeam number, just the route number. (A bit of cash saved there, then!) In a later (November 65) Southall photo, 6106 is without them - common practice on shed at 81C at the end of steam with withdrawal imminent but preservation down the line for this one, at least. Happy to have a bit of variety! Keeps me on my toes! _________ Best wishes Polly

' afternoon all from red dragon land. Mountain behind us has disappeared in low cloud. Guess it might be a bit wet later. Lunch now though. _________ Best wishes Polly