Keith Turbutt

Hi Tony, Very nice weathering but I think I would have painted out the boiler lining. I attach a couple of my prototype photos for comparison. The first two are of a loco cleaned up for the LCGB GC Farewell tour in September 1966. Despite being cleaned up for the special the boiler lining is hardly noticeable. The next photo was taken at Dunfermline shed August 1965. The loco is quite dirty and the boiler lining is just about visible. Most models, both RTR and kits, have boiler bands which are much too thick and should only be barely the thickness of the transfers. Looking through some of my other photos, this one of A2 60530 shows the most prominent boiler lining. Also taken in August 65 at Dundee Tay Bridge.

John, Have a look at LNER Encyclopedia "Original Chime Whistle Drawings - The LNER Encyclopedia" https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12988 and https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8897 These are quite old discussion threads but someone (Eightpot) on there seems to have access to drawings. It's a long shot but worth a try. I think one of the railway magazines did an article on A4 chime whistles a few years ago but I can't remember which or when. The history is interesting. It seems that these whistles were introduced to Gresley by Capt.Howey who bought 2, one he gave to Gresley and the other for an RHDR loco - currently on Winston Churchill. Gresley liked it and adopted it for his A4s. I shall always remember the sound of a chime whistle at KingsX just before a train emerged from Gasworks Tunnel giving away the fact that it was a 'Streak' arriving. Some or all of the original US made Crosby whistles were removed during WW2 and new ones made in the UK were fitted as replacements. I believe the Britannias also had chime whistles. Good luck with your search. Keith

ISTR Claud Butlers were the bees knees when I was a schoolboy. All I had was my uncle's Hercules Pullman with bar brakes. I used it for my Saturday job which involved a 5 mile ride to the shop where I worked.

And since we've also mentioned the 77xxxs one of those, 77014, famously made it down to the Southern and was used on a number of railtours. It never returned to the LMR but stayed on the Southern right to the end of steam. I saw it on the LCGB Hampshire Branch lines railtour in Jan 67. Unfortunately it came onto the tour on one of the later legs when the light was fading so this is the best shot I could get.

I was sorry to have lost out on the DJH 84xxx that Tony had for sale. It would have been a nice addition to my 'collection' of BR Standards. I only need an 84xxx and 77xxx to have an example of each one - I do however have both DJH kits to build! It's strange that Bachmann did not capitalised on their existing products . For example they produced an Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 but did not take the opportunity to produce the equivalent Standard 78xxx which would have only required new loco and tender bodies. It was left to Hornby to produce it. Similarly Bachmann's Ivatt 2-6-2T could, with a new body become an 84xxx and their BR Std 4 2-6-0 could, again with a new body, become a Std 3 2-6-0 77xxx. While on the subject of the 84xxx class, I believe in the 60s they were being considered for use on the IOW as replacements for the ageing 02s. I saw this one at Eastleigh in Jan 66 on the occasion of the LCGB S15 farewell railtour, which included an Eastleigh shed and works visit. This never happened however, the IOW Steam Railway in preservation now run the similar Ivatt on their line - I think they may even have two?

Ditch the motor and gearbox. Suggest you consider a two stage gearbox, with a coreless motor, which could work on the rear axle at a lower level and be less intrusive in the cab. Of course this would mean more expense. High Level models do a range of motors/gearboxes. Also Branchlines.

Slightly OT, but while on the subject of sounds, one memorable occasion quite a few years ago was at a show in Sudbury, Suffolk. Our club, Witham, had been invited to bring along our layout to the show which was held in a de-concecrated church right in the centre of the town used for community purposes. Although de-concecrated the organ was still working and one of the traders at the show happened to be an organist. While 'playing trains' we were treated to a number of stirring tunes on the organ. As already said, a very memorable occasion.

I'm pleased to hear that Squires will be taking over the O and OO DJH ranges. Specifically concerning the OO range, DJH did not in recent times include the wheel sets but I believe they could be supplied separately (Markits). Will Squires also be offering the wheel sets or will a kit purchaser have to source his own wheels? If so, given the recent concerns about the availability of Markits wheels will this discourage DJH sales. There are alternatives such as Gibson but not everyone likes 'pushon' wheels. Ultrascale deliveries take months and have a limited range. Some RTR manufacturers offer wheel sets separately but axle diameters differ. Among my stash of kits I have some older DJH kits that were supplied with Romford wheels. I understand that Markits wheels are an improvement on the older Romfords. What is the general view on going to the expense of replacing the Romford wheels with Markits. Presumably the Romfords could be sold through eBay to offset some of the expense.

Hi Tony The number is 44911 - was that what you meant to type? Keith

........ meanwhile a distraction from railway matters. 16 week old Norwegian Forest cats

As usual I'm having trouble keeping up with WW but this caught my eye and jogged a memory of a comment in PN Townend's Top Shed where he mentioned the allocation of Std 5s. So I looked it up again and was surprised to find on page 109 (1975 edition) a mention of an LMS Black 5, 44911, also being allocated on loan to 34A which I had forgotten about. Apparently it was used for AWS testing. There was also some suggestion in the text that along with the Std 5s it may have been used sometime on the Kings X - Hull service although the B1s were generally preferred by the enginemen - larger locos not being permitted between Doncaster and Hull. So could it be possible that this LMS Black 5 would have passed through LB. It would be a little early for Tony's time period for LB (1958?) but close enough for Rule1. BRDatabase records 44911 transferred from Chester w/e 25/2/56 on loan to KingsX until w/e 18/5/57 when it returned to Chester. Given the Chester connection Tony may well have seen it there. With the wide ranging of LMS Black 5s on specials etc I guess they may not have been that rare on the ECML north of Peterborough. In connection with nicknames, also discussed earlier, I think I read somewhere that 'Black' 5s was used to distinguish them from Jubilees which were called 'Reduns'.

Safety valves look taller than cab roof ? Some N2s had Ross Pop safety valves in LNER days but not sure about this one,

Yes, 61181 (dept 18) is reported in Modern Railways Feb'64, which I just happen to have, as being used for steam heating at March. It also mentions, but without detail, of some B1s being used for steam heating on the GN. Some Ian Allan Loco Shed books showed departmental allocations but I don't have any of the period. Meanwhile I attach a photo, dated 23rd May 1965, taken by a friend so please observe copyright, of the Parkeston (Harwich) BI, Dept 27 formerly 61105, which shows it with a draw hook and a shunters pole, suggesting it was coupling up at times. Also my earlier photo of Dept 19 at Norwich also still has a draw hook and interestingly a three link coupling rather than the screw link which it would originally had.

Hi Clive, Sorry no, film - only 36 photos on a roll in those days - had to be paid for out of pocket money earned from my Saturday job at Tescos and was mostly reserved for steam locos, not lowly diesel shunters. On this visit we had no travel expenses as the father of one of my school friends had a business meeting in Norwich and gave us all a lift. At school there were four of us 'enthusiasts' and when in the 60s it was popular to be part of the 'in set' we were known as the 'train set'! If I remember correctly, the Hunslet was moving around the yard between the loco shed and main running lines into Norwich Thorpe so would have been difficult to photograph easily. My records suggest it was D2558 as that number appears closest in my list to the B1. Two others were also recorded D2559/63 as well as 03s D2032/3/5 and 04 D2203. We also visited Kings, the Norwich scrap yard, where we saw steam locos not yet cut up, 60065, 33040. 61109, 32343, 3213, 3219 and 6133. I attach a cropped photo of the Hunslet to further frustrate you! Keef

Could the stretcher frame be for carrying barrels where it wasn't possible to roll them along? Keith

Yes, you are quite right. I misread my own notes ! Shed plates on locos also showed 6C. Original post now corrected.

There were also 2 B1s at Cambridge and 1 at Parkeston for steam heating I saw:- Dept 21 and 23 (ex 61233 and 61300 respectively) at Cambridge Dept 22 (ex 61252) at Ipswich Dept 17,19 and 20 ( ex 61059, 61204 and 61205 respectively) at Norwich The RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 2B lists 17 B1s being renumbered into departmental service and used for steam heating but not until November 1963. No allocations are mentioned. Perhaps Dr Allen's comment referred to when they were still in capital stock before being renumbered into departmental stock. 61264( Dept 29) is one of two preserved B1s Here is my photo of No19(61204) at Norwich in November1964

I'm having trouble keeping up with postings to WW which seems to move on ever faster, but I always was a slow reader. Anyway FWIW is saw 1628 at Croes Newydd, then 6C, in May '66 on a coach trip organised by our local LCGB Colchester branch and I didn't have much luck with my photo either ! However it does bring back the happy memories of the visit. I had better luck in the shed yard with other locos but the weather wasn't great for photography. At the time the shed was also home to the last of the GWR 0-6-2Ts also inside the shed but this photo of 9630,5605 & 75010, turned out a little better. I think the shed was part of the WR before it became 6C. Also reading recent posts about the future of the hobby, younger modellers will never have experienced the thrill of mainline steam or soaking up the atmosphere and excitement of visiting a steam depot -whether by permit or bunking ! As good as many preserved railways are they cannot recreate what we experienced - but we are still lucky to have them. However, it is clearly a generation thing, and while no doubt there will still be people modelling periods of which they have no first hand experience - they will have to rely on research - the hobby will move on to reflect more modern times.

Hi David, Looks like the one in Lavenham Goods shed. See also my PM

Hi Blandford1969, It would appear that the file of your workbook attached with your posting in 2020 got wiped in the RMweb server crash around that time. If you still have a copy of this file could you please repost it here as several of us would like to download it for our reference. Many thanks

York EE Type 4s got as far as Colchester on the Colchester - Glasgow service in the mid 60s - a bit late for Peterborough North perhaps. At the time a Scottish regiment was based at Colchester barracks and the service ran mainly for troops coming back from and going on leave. I think the Colchester departure was around 5.15pm as I used to see it when catching my train home after staying on after hours at school for orchestra practice. I don't know when this started or when it finished. Clive will no doubt know!

Not if you've watched 'Bangers for Cash', most are sitting in garages and barns all round the country! Apologies for going off topic.

Scalefour News issue 166 February 2010 included a list of Halfords equivalent paints for railway colours, Some colours may nolonger be available as it was a while ago.

Yes, you are correct, I had forgotten about 72009 being tested on the GE with a view to swapping Britannia's for Clans. However GE section management were having none of it. I believe the reason given was that although the clans were capable of keeping time they did not have the reserves to recover lost time if there were serious delays along the line. As the writing was already on the wall for steam I guess reboilering with Britannia boilers was ruled out. Keith

The 'small' S4 meeting was the AGM for 2019, hosted by NEEAG at Woodbridge.