Keith Turbutt

Hi again Robert Further to my recent post, I would recommend reference to the 'Blood and Custard' web site Blood and Custard - 4 BEP & 4 CEP https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-4BEP-4CEP.html This will have all the information you require - and much more! Acccording to the table, phase 1 units (7003 - 7012) had the TRB next to the even number DMBS. The Bachmann 4BEPs are 7005 (green) and 7010 (Blue Grey)' The phase 2 units (7013 - 7022) the TRB appears to be next to the odd number DMBS.

Hi Robert, Can't help with odd/even DMBSs but first class end of TCK next to TRB. TRB seated end (3 windows) nearest to TCK. See colour photo on Colour Rail. I've tried too zoom in on leading DMBS but can't read the coach number. I think this photo was used in Bachmans or Hattons promotion of the 4 BEP. If anyone has bought a Bachman 4 BEP the instructions may have the information you need. I was not prepared to pay the prices being asked and settled for a TRB from Bachman Spares and was lucky enough to get one of their last green ones. Personally I'm not bothered about unit numbers or coach numbers as they are so small they cannot be read on a moving train at normal viewing distance. I have inserted a TRB into a 4 CEP, replacing the TSK (all second) and shan't bother to do any renumbering.

Yes,Paul, please hurry up and build that crane as once you have done that Oxford are bound to issue theirs! Then we can all have one. Keith

Hi SRman, Thanks for your message. Yes you are quite right and I will do that but I find that the research is half the fun in this hobby. I was surprised how few colour photos I could find of green EMUs. I guess as it was still in the steam period people saved their precious film for steam - as I did. Unlike today's digital scene when anything that moves gets photographed or videod! My primary interest is LNER/GER in BR late 50s mainly through nostalgia when I started train spotting so my SR units will not even run on 3rd rail track!

Hi Steve, Nothing to loose by asking Bachmann if you could return your Commonwealth bogies and swap for the correct ones. I don't know how long you have had these bogies but under the distance selling regulations I believe you can legitimately return them for a refund as long as you are not out of time. I think it may be 2 weeks. Looking through photos yesterday I couldn't find one in green livery as an 8 car (CEP+BEP) with an MLV. There is a Colour Rail photo of a green 8 car (CEP+BEP) but without an MLV. This photo has been used in some of the BEP advertising. I think Hattons used it Yesterday I came across a website called 'Blood and Custard' which includes a very comprehensive article on CEPs,BEPs and MLVs which you may find interesting if you haven't already found it. Strange since they were never in blood and custard! - although I did like the short lived Jaffa cake livery but this is very much out of my time period.

My order was delivered today - I think I must have had one of the last green bodies as they are now showing 'out of stock' although they still have the blue-grey version available. I doubt if there will be any more as I guess these are left over from the production runs. I would just mention for any intended future puchasers that instead of buying separately you can buy the PCB board and underframe as a combined item - listed a bit further down the parts list. This has the advantage that the clips are already provided. I think the price is the same as buying them individually. I came across this thread purely by chance when I was searching the internet in the hope that there might be some seriously discounted Bachmann 4BEPs (but to no avail!) as, although I would have liked one, I was not prepared to pay the +£400ish that was being offered by model shops. After all, the only new tooling was the buffet car. Your RM thread, Steve, was listed in the browsing options which lead to this happy result. Like you and others I had some while ago purchased the Moussa brass buffet car sides/overlays but these have laid in the 'to do' pile for some while as a conversion seemed rather daunting, not least to match the paint shade and silver window frames as has already been mentioned earlier in this thread. The underframe would also needed altering on the donor coach. I already have 2 4CEP units, one of which will now be converted to a 4BEP, and an MLV. I will not bother to renumber the donor 4CEP unit as I don't think anyone will notice and I wouldn't make a good job of it anyway. All I need to do now is decide whether or not to buy a cheap second hand 4CEP. I wonder if any services just ran as 4CEP+4BEP+MLV. Does anyone have any photos of such a formation as a 13 car train would be rather long on my track. Thanks again Steve for bringing this to our attention.

Thanks - found it! No more details with the photo itself other than August 1959 and 'a local service'. .... but one of the contributors comments said "As this is a Saturday and the BSE to Liverpool Street stock can be seen stabled on the Thetford branch this is almost certainly the SO 07.45 BSE to Marks Tey. The LS train departed at 07.58. The train should have been a dmu. BSE depot closed at the turn of 1958/9. On M-F the 07.45 was a through train to Norwich via Colchester! The tender certainly seems well filled." This is an amazing Sherlock Holmes style deduction resulting from spotting the Liverpool St. stock stabled in the far distance and can just be seen to the right of the J15. That seems to confirm my hope that it was a Marks Tey service via Long Melford - very usefull as I am with a group modelling Lavenham in P4. Wonderful photos on the Robert Gadson/ Flickr site. I particularly liked the photo of the 309 electric unit passiing Colchester diesel depot as after electrification, I travelled to school on them in the 60s. We just referred to them as 'red electrics' in those days when all the other EMUs were green. Thanks again Keith

Hi, Where did you find this photo. Are there any more details such as date and what service it is on. Could it be a Colchester service via Long Melford and Marks tey perhaps? Thanks Keith

Time is running out. Have you contacted the police for advice yet? Nothing to loose by doing so. Also you could Google "report stolen goods on eBay" if you haven't already done so. It comes back with some useful links including eBay itself.

I think you are on weak ground if it was not reported at the time - presumably the exhibition organisers have no record of the theft either. Then I would suggest that you explain the situation to the dealer and if the model has some sentimental value to you and you would like it returned it might be worth offering to reimburse the seller for what he paid for it ( it's currently listed for only £25 + postage) and appeal to his better nature. At least that way he will not be out of pocket. Either way you have 5 days to decide before the auction closes Keith

The seller is a dealer and probably bought it in good faith from the thief or one of his relatives. I would contact him and explain the situation and ask him to withdraw it from sale while the matter is resolved. Although it is of relatively small value I would nevertheless contact the police for advice. They may want to know if the original theft was reported at the time. It may also help if you have photographic evidence of the model enabling it to be identified. Hope that is of help and good luck in retrieving it. Keith

Don't think we have seen one of these on WW before. It is a CDC Design resin body of an NLR Tank on a proprietary Electroten chassis. It belongs to a friend and I added transfers and glazing for him as I had a steadier hand! I'm rather pleased how it has turned out.

For anyone who might be interested, Vol II of Steve Banks' LNER Passenger Trains and Formations is listed on Crecy's website as due for publication on Ist July - this year !! I spoke to the book man, Bob Pearman, who had spoken to the Crecy rep and he has confirmed that information. It deals with 'Secondary, Branch Lines and Non-passenger. If correct, it's been a long time coming. I bet Tony can't wait to get his hands on it.

Reminds me of the children's game 'Guess Who' that I used to play with my daughters!

I see the discussion has moved on a bit from this thread but the gauge O Guild have made a video, available on Youtube, of David Jenkinson discussing his layout which you might find interesting. In searching for this I also came across Youtube videos with Bob Symes with his 'Lineside look at Model Railways' which is also interesting with lots od familiar names appearing. Hope you enjoy it

For anyone who has not managed to get to the North Norfolk Railway to see the Quad-art they might enjoy this video and a couple of photos taken at Holt

Besides the use of quad-arts on the GN suburban services for many years after World War Two a special train for Servicemen continued at weekends between Hitchin and Henlow Camp station on the Bedford line using quad-art stock. Search online for Ben Brooksbank photos where a alphabetical search under 'Hitchin' will reveal a photo of a J15 with an 8 car set of quad-arts.

Further to my earlier email, on closer inspection of the illustrations with the Quad-art anouncements the B&W (cad?) illustrations do not show the recessed guards compartment but the teak coloured illustration (see below) does appear to show the recesse so hopefully Ellis Clarke have got it right and the B&W illustration is not the latest version.

Thanks Clive. The Kitchenside article says that the GN design was perpetuated into the early LNER so I think we are both correct depending on how you look at it. The article I've quoted also mentions the bogie changes. However this does not alter the fact that the sets with duckets, whether built by GN or early LNER, to the GN design should have recessed guards compartments - as does the preserved set on the M&GN which Ellis Clarke based their research on. I'm sure it will all get sorted before production begins.

There is an interesting article in Railway World Vol 27 No 312 dated May 1966 by G.M.Kitchenside entitled "End of the Quad Arts". It's a six page article with lots of information, photos and diagrams. There were two builds, first by the GN and later builds by the LNER. They differed in that the GN builds had duckets while the LNER builds did not. As the GN builds had duckets the guards compartment was recessed like other Gresley brake coaches. The LNER sets without duckets did not have recessed guards compartments. The Ellis Clarke illustrations show duckets but the guards compartments do not appear to be recessed.

There is an interesting article in Railway World Vol 27 No 312 dated May 1966 by G.M.Kitchenside entitled "End of the Quad Arts". In it he states "The two four-coach components were not identical, and, as they were close coupled with short buffers at the inner ends they could not work independently and ran as eight coach trains." It is a six page article with lots of information, diagrams and photos. Although the GN built sets had duckets, like the one shown in the Accurascale illustration, the LNER ones did not have duckets and therefore did not have the recess alongside the guards compartment. Kitchenside also mentions that it appeared that the brake thirds were designed with six compartments but the sixth compartment was never fitted out but became part of the guards compartment. However the bodyside beading matches what would have been a passenger compartment. In closing he says that the originall quad-arts were built for possible conversion to electric traction had the GN lines been converted by the GN or LNER. I wonder if any 'might have been" modellers will take this up?

A GE Quint would have been better as they could be run in single sets.

......like this one, unlined 70034 Thomas Hardy at Leeds Neville Hill July 1966

Oh dear. Are there also dimensional errors in the Gibson 7mm E4 kit. I bought a built one at auction a couple of years ago. Presumably one was scaled up or down from the other.

Clearly the Scalefour society do not share your opinion about drop in conversions as, at a pre COVID Scaleforum exhibition they themselves were selling RTR jinties ready converted with P4 wheels. I believe they sold out at the show. I accept that not all RTR steam locos lend themselves to be converted, particularly those with outside valve gear. However the buckjumper has no splashers and it should not be a problem to convert. For anyone wishing to try out P4 this is a quick way to get started. The problem with Ultrascale wheels, including the RTR conversions, is not the cost but the availability. With a full order book there is a wait of some months before delivery. I have not tried Gibson conversion sets but I believe they need to be assembled reusing the existing gear off the OO axle whereas the Ultrascale conversions come ready assembled with a new gear.