LNER4479

Excellent! It's time for the OO vs P4 argument ... er, friendly exchange of views. Not had that one for a while😁 I know one thing - I couldn't attempt what I'm attempting layout-wise in P4. It's madness in OO as it is 🤪

Perhaps Squires should go the whole hog and acquire Markits as well? Maybe those discussions are already taking place?! Maybe there are lots of other secret negotiations going on we no nothing about?!! Whatever - stay tuned for the next exciting episode of: 'Railway Modelling - a hobby in decline?'

Evening Tony. Have you not yet heard the latest news re Squires acquiring all the DJH tooling etc, with stated intent to recommence kit manufacture? Don't go hunting for the thread elsewhere on this forum, however ... (bit of an argument broke out!)

Hopefully you charge accordingly?(!)

Yep - seen it Peter; just about to respond. I've had quite a few PMs overnight, so it looks as if the sale of the ex-LMS locos will get off to a good start. I'm still cataloguing but if you want to get in there before they get passed on to Tony for general sale then feel free to PM me with anything you might be interested in. It's generally medium to small stuff so no pacifics etc; more the characterful stuff that was the real bread n butter of the railway.

Meanwhile ... The LMS are coming! Whereas almost all GWR types have a RTR equivalent, there's some in this little lot with no such competitor. I should give due notice however that not all of these will make it to open sale. I'm a lot more in my comfort zone with locos like this and, aside from myself, there's a few other preliminary expressions of interest that may account for some of these. The good BarryO called in today for a cuppa and can vouch for the consistent build quality and running characteristics of these. There's more where these came from, including some RTR. Once it's all catalogued, I'll make the full list available. Feel free to PM me in advance however if you're in the market for these and other similar loco types. As always with Tony finding new homes for locos, 10% of proceeds to CRUK.

As the instigator of these current locos for sale, may I say that I wouldn't disagree with any of the above. Whereas Tony has got a good feel for what a kit built BR/LNER loco - and to a large extent LMS - loco will actually sell for, we were less certain for the GWR locos (hence the earlier post). So I simply did a quick internet search on typical selling prices for RTR equivalents and we've used that as a starting point or at least guidance. The point about DCC conversion is well made (MikeParkin65) and this has already crossed my mind. Some of the locos use open frame motors (typically Anchoridge) and these are earthed to the chassis, so I suspect that might be an issue. Others are can (Mashima) or Portescaps so not as bad as there's two motor leads to play with. If anyone needs to know details for any specific loco, please just ask - I am logging details for each as I go along. For what it's worth, the guy (Peter) seemed to have 'cracked the nut' in terms of getting Anchoridge motors to mesh and run smoothly. Loco after loco thus shod we put on the tracks just moves off beautifully steady and smooth. I could never get on with the things! I was glad when Mashima can motors became widely available.

Correct. But thanks, anyway(!) Besides, I thought identification of different GWR loco types was merely about how far, far away they were ... 😆

Salivating ... 🤤🤪

Well, true to my word (on this occasion) ... Here is the said flat crossing, cleared for work to begin. Plain track has been temporarily laid previously to get us up and running, with a template beneath. Everything on a min six foot radius curve, about the most you can curve the Peco pointwork to. And, after a session of cutting and tweaking, the first two part modified. The temporarily laid tracks can stay for now as they're actually quite useful during the marking and cutting exercise.

Funnily enough, was planning to make a start this evening! So - no - you won't have to wait long! Wiring it all up might take a bit longer, mind ... It'll be a mix of 3-link and tension lock. In case that sounds scary, then the idea is that wagons are coupled up in rafts, ie 3-links with a converter wagon at either end (converter - different couplers each end). The rafts can be coupled and uncoupled, to reform trains, without troubling the 3-links. Although if someone did fancy playing around with 3-links then Dentonholme will be a good place to do it. I'll probably need as many converters as 3-links, if you think about it? A three wagon raft needs 2 converters but just one 3-link. Suitable RTR wagons are ideal as converters; just need to fit a hook one end.

Meanwhile, either side of Donny, tracklaying work has been undertaken ... Whilst waiting for next consignment of points to arrive, decided to tackle some plain line work. Courtesy of Nicktoix of this parish, I took delivery of some used Code 75 and this is seen here being sorted into suitable lengths (cascading ex-mainline track for siding use, just like the real railway😁) With track cut to length, and sprayed, the ever therapeutic task of fixing it down for keeps proceeds. And there we have it. 3 long dead-end sidings at Dentonholme, constituting the representation of the West Yard. On the layout, this'll be where northbound trains for the CR and GSWR routes are made up, as well as handling the trip traffic - north to Canal and south to Upperby. And from the other end, showing the buffer stops ending the roads as so, leaving space for the Goods Depot roads to fan out bottom left. The completed sidings now laid have capacity for approx 90 wagons but that's only part of the total capacity of the yard which should be nearer 200. Plenty of wagon fun to be had 🤓

Like this you mean? (since weathered)

Thanks, John We've actually got an article in preparation, so I don't want to steal its thunder (although I don't claim to understand how it works, in any case!) In essence, however, it achieves two things. Firstly, it controls the advancing of the next Down (uphill!) train into one of two departure positions (one for unbanned; one for banked) Secondly (and this is the really snazzy bit), it passes the info on round the layout as to which FY road the train came out of such that, when Shap summit clears his starter signal, the road is automatically set for that road and the train safely returns from whence it came. 99.5% of the time (!) It pays for the Shap signalman just to do a confirming check.

In theory yes ... but I think it was more of a long headshunt for the quarry as much as a refuge. Also, even if such a train has ailed up the bank, it has nevertheless made it to the summit(!) and it's all downhill from there. It would cause even more delay stopping and (steadily) propelling back into the siding. Looking at the signalling diagrams for the following locations, if it was in real trouble it would probably be better diving into the loop at Harrison Sidings or - more likely - one of the two designated good loops on the approach to Penrith. On the layout, the trailing crossover concerned is more or less at the scenic break so the train would have to be driven into the fiddle yard, only to propel back out of it again. And as most of the goods trains are 3-links ... likely to disrupt the (generally!) free running of the layout? As I say, it's a nice idea but I'm not convinced it's worth the effort 🤔

The crossovers to the down siding are currently inoperative. Together with associated signals, that would use up the remaining levers. In truth, only one train (the down pick-up goods) would use it, recessing for the following train to pass. A nice move but quite a lot of effort for one move per sequence! We'll see ...

The quote I'm convinced I've read - but, frustratingly, couldn't put my hands on just now - went something like: 'The Black 'uns are alright*; but the Red 'uns won't steam!' [1930s LMS enginemen] (*if I've got that right, then one of the classic understatements of all (railway) time) The statement would have been 1935-ish when both the new Stanier mixed traffic and express passenger 4-6-0s were coming on stream in numbers. As is well-known, they had markedly different introductions, the 5MTs making an immediate (positive) impact, whereas the 5XPs suffered from indifferent steaming and were soon being compared unfavourably with the 'Patriots', a type they were supposed to be an improvement on. A J Powell in 'Stanier 4-6-0s at Work' records 17 different boiler configurations in an attempt to get them right! Not that they didn't tinker with the Black 5 boilers, mind ... The 1937 exploits of 5660 'Rooke' over the Settle & Carlisle proved what a good inherent design the 5XPs ('Jubilee) were, with the draughting and superheating optimised.

A dedicated follower of PN, perhaps?

Have you checked out this thread?: Unfortunately, like most of us, pictures pre-2023 were lost in the great server crash which includes everything on the previous version of his layout including the turntable. Mr 92220 of this parish (Iain Henderson) is a smashing chap and I'm sure would be able to either furnish you or point you in the direction of any source material you might require. You might want to add your request onto Iain's thread, as his followers might not necessarily pick it up in this area of the forum.

Does this answer your question?(!) The operator at Shap summit does indeed have a lever frame - unseen by the viewers - and operates the signals him (or her) self. They're all interlocked (electrically) and some of them also do clever things as part of Andrew's control system. The signalling arrangements at Shap summit included 'station limits' on both up and down lines, between respective Home and Starter signals, allowing the signalman to control shunt movements locally. This is replicated on the model. If we take a close up look at the signalling diagram on the model, it should be relatively easy to follow. Having banked a train up the hill, the banker (pilot) comes to a halt at signal 3, the Down Starter. Crossover 4 is then reversed (locking both Up and Down Home signals) and Ground Signal 5 is pulled off (locking Crossover 4), allowing the loco to cross over to the Up line. If it's straight back down the hill, then Up starter 17 is pulled off and away she goes. If no path available, Crossover 9 is reversed (locking the Up Home signal), Ground Signal 8 pulled off and loco berths in the Loco Siding. It's based on the signalling diagram as published in the John Swift series by the Signalling Record Society, Volume 6. The real Shap summit was a 36 lever frame (twice ours), the main difference being that it also controlled the Shap Quarry sidings, which aren't included on the model. The lever numbers are correct up to No.10 Glad you enjoyed your visit to the Westmorland fells 😀

DMU image is here: https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p324083191/h46601703#h46601703 (can't post image on here directly - copyrighted) The 4-coach local set we run is actually three Gresley teaks and a Thompson. It's based on several images of this working which made use of a NER region set that was otherwise idle during the middle of the day at Carlisle, having worked a morning service in from Newcastle and subsequently an evening return. The LMR used it for a Carlisle-Oxenholme and return working. Several pictures of it - always with one of Carlisle's Stanier tanks - by Erics Bruton and Treacy(!) As it runs in 'early BR' era, I make use of a couple of old PC teak coaches, supposedly awaiting repaint into the new corporate image. So it was not a 'one off' but a regular, booked working.

Thanks Tony, for taking on the initial batch of locos to be found new homes, on the usual 10% to CRUK basis. For info to any who might be interested, Peter is a friend of my Dad's and has asked me to help find new homes for his collection. Sadly, he has become too frail to model any more and enjoy his models. It's a very credible decision and I feel honoured to be doing what I can to help out. The kit sales last year were from the same source. He is greatly heartened by the interest shown so far. I estimate about 150 locos in total, a mixture of RTR and kit-built. Largely ex-GWR and ex-LMS types, with some BR standard types making up the numbers. All in 1950s/60s BR condition. It's going to take most of the year (I suspect) to recover, catalogue and package (not all have their original boxes) before passing on to Tony. A steady stream is probably better than all in one go in any case, to avoid overwhelming Tony & Mo. I've agreed with Tony that I'll look after the RTR items but I plan to provide a list on Tony's thread. Oh - and there's coaches and wagons as well. Lots of coaches and wagons. Rob - that's very kind of you. Neither Tony nor I claim much expertise where it comes to GWR types! Graham

See you at Bristol, then 😉

Criticism happily accepted. On the list ... along with corridor connections, better / closer coupling arrangement, weathering underframes scraping off over-size roof ribs, passengers in the interiors ... 🤔 At least most locos now have lamps, crews and coal in the tender 🤗

Just a bit: https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/shows No doubt including 'The BBQ Challenge' and demonstrators showing how to tie a sheet bend knot properly ...