Gavin Liddiard

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the MP1 point motor. I found them very easy to fit and adjust. I found that the ideal mounting screws and washers for these motors to be self tapping pan head 3/8" x 4gauge (Toolstation product code: 54859) with M3 steel washers that spread the force evenly over the mounting slots. I found that on the side opposite to the electrical connections I needed to file a flat on one side of the washer so that it would lie flat (I was mounting onto a 9mm plywood baseboard).

I would avoid solenoid point motors. I replaced over 40 Peco solenoid motors and their clip on accessory switches on one of my club's layouts in 2019 due to their poor reliability. After looking at various options I found the MTB-MP1 point motor (sold by DCC Train Automation). I bought one to test and it worked really well. It's a slow acting motorised point motor with an accessory contact switch built in (perfect for switching frogs). Control is by 3 wires. On my club layout we used the Digikeijs DR4018 accessory decoder on dcc but they can easily be switched by a spdt switch with a 12v supply. If you are building a conventional control panel and want led feedback on the point position, that is possible with this point motor. I found the blog posting of a Czeh modeller that has utilised the motor's wiring design to create led feedback without the need for an extra accessory switch: http://www.modulybrno.cz/ohlas-mp1 I have fitted five on a small n gauge test track and they work fine on their 3mm travel setting. Like other motorised point motors you need to remove the detent spring from the Peco points as the point motor holds the point blades in the chosen direction. I'm currently planning a large American N layout and I will be using these point motors. They might be more expensive than a solenoid motor and switch but they are much easier to fit and adjust and work so much better.

Does it live in the box with the transformer and does it get hot during operation? On Mauch Chunk, one of my club's layouts, the Lenz LZV100 lives in a Really Useful Box along with three transformers and other control circuitry. I had just put this control box together when we went to Glasgow exhibition at the SEC last year. During the show we experienced intermittant loss of power which I finally diagnosed as overheating Lenz controls. Removing the lid temporarily solved the problem. For the next show at the NEC last year I re-organised the internal layout of the box and fitted a 12v computer case fan at one end and drilled holes at the other to create a through draught that successfully controlled the temperature inside the box resulting in no control failures. For our P4 layout Mostyn we had to fit two case fans in the control panel to control the heat.

If you liked the Lenz Set 100 in the past why not find a second hand set (make sure it is version 3.6), or If you know someone with a German address see if Lenz still has any reconditioned LH100s and LZV100s for sale https://www.lenz-elektronik.de/lenz-online-shop#werksverkauf (I used Google to translate the page). I'm biased as I have a lot of Lenz kit, but apart from the handset cables on the LH100 (that my team members treat as consumables), it all just works. Proof of this is the number of exhibition layouts still using it. The user interface of the LH100 is brilliantly simple which is important when you are trying to operate multiple trains at speed. It might not have the latest screen based UI but I like to spend my time watching trains when operating, not looking at the controller. On Mostyn we run 11 SLW class 24s and a few sound equipped 47s and have crib sheets pinned around the layout for those that want to use the sound functions. I have spent some time with the new LH101 (owned by a fellow BMRG goup member) and don't think its an improvement on the LH100. Whereas the menu on the LH100 is logical and simple to navigate, the same cannot be said of the LH101. It has a knob for speed control but I found it to be harder to rapidly raise or lower the speed and, one handed, it required greater thumb movements to achieve the same task. The Set 101 has some new features but they don't make me want to upgrade my kit.

This is the scenic control panel on Mosyn, built in 2013 to replace the original panel and integrate various upgrades. The panel is made from 9mm ply with a laser cut 1mm steel sheet, overlaid with a printed and laminated layout diagram, into which all the switches and leds are mounted. This construction method is similar to the fiddle yard panel and allows us to keep tabs on all the trains with magnetic strip markers. The shelf that the panel is sitting on is bolted to the layout legs and also doubles as it's transport case as it slots over the panel and is held in place by a bolt at each end. The main panel is basically a mirror of the Mostyn signal box panel as it was in 1977. The two rows of switches at the top of the panel are additional to this and allow panel control of the points in the exchange sidings (these were hand thrown on the prototype). There is also a toggle switch to transfer control of these points to DCC (handset) control. The white section on the left of the panel incorporates a Rramp Meter that displays output voltage and current load on the layout and two lines of red and green leds that show the state of each power district (clear or short circuit). On the front of the box there are four Xpressnet sockets for handsets (5 pin din sockets) and the front of the Lenz LZV 100 command station. On the top of the box is a length of track used as the programming track. The upper compartment is accessed by opening the hinged steel panel and contains the wiring for points and signals and the 9x PSX circuit breakers that split the track power to the various power districts on the layout. The lower compartment is a sliding tray that houses the mains power and three power supplies that feed the tortoise point motors, DCC and signals. The incomming mains socket (kettle type) also incorporates an isolating switch. Part of this power is rectified down to 12v dc to power two computer case fans in the rear of this compartment (unseen in the pic). The fans were a necessary addition after we started using the panel as the lower compartment was getting very hot from the three power supplies. the two holes in this shelf front allow hot air to exit the compartment and also give access to hidden switches that isolate two of the power supplies. The key switch on the front isolates the DCC output to the layout. I designed the woodwork with Sketchup although now I use Fusion 360 as it is more advanced with much better options for outputting drawings etc. Here is the working drawing for the scenic panel: The fiddle yard panel has two angled faces, one for each fiddle yard (there are two).

The MP1 uses a microswitch to switch contacts at the end of travel, killing power to the motor and making the second contact live and ready for the return move. It also requires 130mA to drive the point motor. When I replaced 40 Peco solenoid point motors with MP1s last year the original MERG solenoid decoders wouldn't work and after much consultation we concluded that the best option was the DR4018. At a price of just over £4 per MP1 output, good value too. Any spare outputs can be programmed for a multitude of other things apparently.

Followed closely by the Peco solenoid point motor which is also a reliability nightmare. After an eventful show at Glasgow 2019 with Mauch Chunk where we had no confidence that the fiddle yard points would switch as desired, we replaced all the peco solenoid point motors (approx 40) with MTB-MP1 which also required the change of accessory decoders from MERG to Digikeijs DR4018. At its next show, Warley 2019, the new point motors worked perfectly although one operator complained that he couldn't hear them.... 20190715_202422 by Gavin Liddiard, on Flickr This pic shows one of the fiddle yard boards on Mauch Chunk showing the dropper arrangement with two droppers per rail for redundancy. The yellow droppers go to the frog rails and are fed from the accessory switch on the MTB-MP1 point motors. There are two main track buses on this board as we use PSX circuit breakers to split the layout into 4 power districts with 2 on the scenic and 2 on the fiddle yard. This minimises down time when there are shorts on one part of the layout.

The pic attached shows the control box I built for Mauch chunk. 20190316_143208 by Gavin Liddiard, on Flickr The Lenz LZV100 command station feeds 4 x Tonys train Exchange PSX circuit breakers which in-turn feed the four "power districts" on the layout. These are supplied by the Lenz TR150 5A transformer which handles all track power requirements on the layout (red & black wires). The PSX breakers trip at a lower current than the command station and we configure them to self reset after the short is cleared. A separate feed is taken from the command station's track bus that is used as a control bus for all the point and signal accessory decoders (orange & purple wires). Power for all the point motors is supplied by the Lenz TR100 3A transformer, signals are fed from a 12v DC transformer (thick blue & brown wires). The benefit of this solution is you can still control the points and signals during a shorting event (useful for fixing mistakes). Handsets are connected via a 4 wire control bus that Lenz call Xpressnet. this is a daisy chained line of 5 pin din sockets dotted around the layout that all handsets and the computer interface connect to. The Xpressnet has bi-directional communication so all handsets have access to the states of all locos and the position of points and signals as set by the command station. To receive actual feedback from accessories more proprietry electronics are required depending on your system. I have no experience using feedback systems so cannot comment on such. Other manufacturers may do things in different ways but the basic architecture is the same. In General: Controllers are connected by an independant low power data bus. Track power and control signals are supplied by the command station's main 2 wire track bus. Accessory decoders can take control and power from the track bus, or control from track bus and power from separate transformer. I hope this helps...

I have attached a modified pic of the OPs plan showing where I would fit droppers. You have to assume that rail joiners provide alignment allowing for expansion gaps, but not conductivity. It makes sense when laying new track to eliminate future problems that can be avoided at this stage. I have omitted the droppers from the frogs that would be fed from the accessory switch on the point motor. Insulating rail joiners would be fitted to the frog rails on each point. If you are planning on exhibiting the layout then I would recommend you fit two droppers per rail section for redundancy. This policy has saved us many times at exhibitions with Mostyn when droppers have failed over the years. I would suggest you look at the MTB-MP1 point motor. I fitted 40 of these last summer to Mauch Chunk to replace unreliable Peco solenoid motors. They are very easy to fit and adjust and have a built in accessory switch: linky

Rail is not a good conductor. If you are laying new track, you might as well do the job properly.

Yes, the turntable needs to switch polarity of the tracks at roughly 90° to the main direction of travel so that there is no chance of a short circuit when turning locos. There are also some lengths of track on your plan which do not have droppers. The best practice is to fit droppers to eacch individual length of track so you don't have to rely on rail joiners for conductivity.

I suggest you look at the MTB-MP1 point motor found here: link I fitted 40 of these last summer to replace unreliable Peco PL10 solenoid motors on my club's layout Mauch Chunk. They are a slow acting motorised point motors that incorporate an accessory switch that can be used to change frog polarity if needed. They are very easy to fit as they have plenty of adjustment including the actuator rod that can slide up and down so there's no need to cut it above the point, as is needed with many other point motors. You do need to remove the detent spring from the point as it's not needed with this point motor. To fit route leds on a control panel you should look at the post of a Czech blogger who shows how to add lights into the switching circuit of these motors: link.

On BMRGs "Mostyn" we have a fleet of twin motored Hornby based Class 25s (3 pole pancake), a Hornby based twin 5 pole Class 24 and some Lima based twin pancake Class 40s. They are all wired in parallel to either Lenz or Zimo decoders. They don't draw a lot of current so just the standard decoders at the time were sufficient. To match the motor bogies we temporarily rigged them to run alone and ran them all on a circuit of track for some time to see which made the best pairs. For the Hornby type 2 we wrote an article when we fitted twin 5 pole motor boies to our 24047. In it we discussed the fitting of the bogies, wiring for DCC and also fitting all wheel pick-ups which is a must for reliable running. The article is now on our website in PDF format and can be found here: http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/mostyn_projects/MorePowerForYour24v2.pdf

It's not unheard of for multiple LH100s to have bad leads. At Bristol show last year with Mostyn I had 6 handsets on the maintenance table and all needed cable repairs (some of the operators are Neandertals). That said I hadn't noticed the OPs "multiple handset" comment. The command station/LA152 sockets can fail by getting sloppy over time and I have replaced two, one on a LZ100 and one on LA152. I found some of the correct panel mount sockets here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIRSCHMANN-MAB-5-SH-SOCKET-DIN-PCB-5PIN/181886050894?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649. You do need a good solder sucker to remove the old sockets but its not difficult to do.

LH100 showing on the handset means it can't communicate with the command station. The usual fault is a break in one or more of the wire cores in the handset lead, usually close to the base of the handset. If you wiggle the lead around the base of the handset and the display changes this indicates a break in the wire. I normally just shorten the lead by a couple of inches at the handset end and the fault is sorted. Over the years the hansets BMRG use on Mostyn have taken a beating at exhibitions. Between us we have 16 LH100s and each has needed lead repairs many times. Early on I concluded that the original lead was not good enough, especially the early ones without the moulded plugs. I found that MIDI leads, used to connect musical equipment, use the same 5 pin DIN plugs as the LH100s and can be bought cheaply. I have used this seller for a few years: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Pin-Din-Midi-Cable-2m-3m-5m-6m-Keyboard-Synth-Effects-Quality-Audio-Lead/281743944669?hash=item41993f6bdd:g:TvQAAOSw8bpcSG7j. They are well made with a nice moulded plug. I buy 6 metre MIDI leads and cut them in half, giving 2x 3 metre handset leads. You need to check with a multimeter to verify the pin assignments, then tin the wires and solder the new lead to the handset pcb in the following way: A similar diagram can be found in the LZV100 user manual. The midi leads I use are slightly thicker than the originals so, to stop the case pinching the lead, I use a small round file to enlarge the hole slightly . I also add a small zip tie just inside the case to limit movement.

I would highly reccommend the MTB-MP1 point motor that can be bought here: https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/mp1-point-switch.html. I fitted 40 of these point motors to Mauch Chunk last summer to replace unreliable solenoid point motors in the fiddle yard. I also have five on my n gauge test track. They are really easy to install and adjust and and have a built in spdt switch suitable for frog polarity. We control them with the Digikeijs DR4018 accessory decoder but they can also be switched with a simple spdt toggle switch. I found a Czech blogger who shows how to add led direction indicators for a control panel using these motors here: http://www.modulybrno.cz/ohlas-mp1 the video also shows the point motor action. My club's other two layouts use Tortoise point motors but any future layouy will probably feature the MP1 as they are much easier to fit and are a lot smaller.

I currently use "MATE-N-LOK" connectors which are available from 2 to 15 ways. The use latching plastic connectors into which crimped pin terminals are inserted (they can also be soldered to the wires).

Option one works fine. This is the underside of a fiddle yard board from Mauch Chunk, the most recent layout built by Barrowmore Model Railway Group: We use the main conductors from 2.5mm² domestic mains cable for the track bus and thinner stranded wire for the droppers. The droppers are soldered to the underside of each individual rail before the rail is laid and then wrapped around and soldered to the track bus. The pic shows two track buses as we use PSX circuit breakers to protect the two halves of the fiddle yard and also two on the scenic section. Our P4 layout Mostyn is wired in a similar way although each rail has two droppers for redundancy and the layout, being much larger, utilises nine PSX circuit breakers to protect the separate power districts.

You might find it easier to standardise your point motors as they will potentially need different power supplies and accessory decoders. Solenoid point motors like the Peco PL10 and Gaugemaster Seep need, in my experience, a capacitor discharge unit to supply a high enough charge to reliably switch the points. Merg members can buy a decoder kit that includes a CDU and controls four points. It works well but the solenoid point motors are just nasty. Last summer I replaced ~ 40 Peco point motors due to unreliability and fitted MTB-MP1 motorised point motors with Digikeijs DR4018 accessory decoders and they worked perfectly at the layout's last show (Warley 2019). Note that I tested the DR4018 on my n gauge test track first. It had Seep point motors at the time and I couldn't get the solenoids to throw reliably. Apart from signals I have never used servos so I can't comment on them. As we found last year, the cheapest option won't necessessarily be the best and you may end up getting very frustrated with your choice and then spending more money to do the job properly. That said the MERG boards are cheap and they do throw the PECO solenoids reliably. The DR4018 are good value (8 points for ~£33) work well with motorised points but NOT solenoids.

Must be me Mike. I've been getting it wrong for seventeen years. Anybody who was at Stevenage (CMRA) exhibition last weekend might have seen Johnstown Road, our Cambrian 'O' gauge layout that uses automotive style connectors. The original half of the layout was first exhibited in 2003 and has been to at least 2 shows per year since then and the connectors have never failed. Our 'HO' layout Mauch Chunk will be at Alexandra Palace in March. It uses the automotive connectors I linked to in my first post. AP will be it's sixth show and, so far, it's had no problems with the wiring yet.

I disagree. They might not be designed for this use but do it very well. Our three large exhibition layouts :- Mostyn, Johnstown Road and Mauch Chunk all use automotive connectors for electrical connection and have survived as much as sixteen years of trouble free use.

Automotive connectors are what I use. They come in various sizes from 2 way to 15 way and are rated up to 10A. Link to product: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/39 They clip together easily and securely. You can see them in use on Mauch Chunk where we used 12 way connectors for all inter board connections.

For BMRG's Mauch Chunk I suggested we use a 'Really Useful Box" as it could hold all the layout control electrics and, being made from clear plastic we could easily monitor the relevant LEDs during operation. Also they stack well, so if you use RUBs with the same footprint for stock boxes, transport to shows would be a lot safer (we didn't go that far unfortunately). This box is their 33ltr version measuring 710mm Long x 440mm Wide x 165mm High. It stacks nicely with their 64 & 84 ltr boxes. In the box is the command station, computer interface, 4x PSX circuit breakers, DCC transformer, point motor transformer, a 4 gang maind extension and a 12v DC power supply for the signals on the layout and the case cooling fan. The coooling fan is extremely important as, during operation, it keeps the contents cooler than with no fan and the lid off (as was problematic at Glasgow 2019). I have since modified the layout to provide equal cooling to the two main Lenz transformers. The long tag strip in the middle sends all the power and control to the layout via a loom and a 36 way automotive connector. The plywood base in the box to which all the components are mounted sits on 20mm blocks which allows the leads from the transformers to be loosely coiled below out of the way. In use the box sits on a shelf between the legs of a baseboard. With the lid closed the 230v flex, usb for computer and layout loom exit the box via a cut-out in the lid at the back.

Those pluggable terminal blocks are not reliable enough for exhibition use. In the past we used the 'D' type computer connectors and the pluggable terminal blocks on various layouts and they were all eventually replaced due to poor connections. On most of our layouts we use 24 or 36 way automotive connectors with gold plated crimped connectors from RS. These have now become prohibitively expensive (2-3 pounds per pin) so for our newest layout, Mauch Chunk which was at Warley this year, we used Mate-N-Lok automotive connectors (12 way) for all power and control circuits around the layout. This link: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/39 shows the type we used (although I have no knowlege of the supplier). You would need a decent ratchet crimping tool but ,fitted properly, you know they will be 100% reliable and with with decent stranded wire for the inter-board link, they can easily handle the full 5A current output from our Lenz command stations. They might seem expensive but they will pay for themselves in the time you won't be spending under your baseboards at exhibitions.

Error 2 is "no decoder detected". In my experience this can be down to dirt on the rails/wheels/pick-ups or sometimes poor wiring in the loco. in the worst case it will mean the decoder has failed. The only way to be sure is to extract the decoder and test it on it's own. I have also spent ages trying to solve a similar fault to then realise that I haven't swiched the programming track over to the PQ terminals on the command station.....