Rich Papper

Small, incredibly time consuming, but significant progress this evening: transfers. One of my favourite bits, but it really takes forever and hands are not quite as responsive as they used to be. Class 101 has become L207, and the 101/121DTS hybrid is L211. Transfers are a mixture of sources, some of which I've had a very long time. To the photos: Front ends. Admit I had underestimated what a gigantic pain that cantrail lining would be on the fronts of the 101s. Modelmaster transfers in this case. Much time spent fighting to get them straight and then look at the real thing and they've all been painted by hand and no two are alike. One of the best tips from 'The Art of Weathering' - 'model what you see, not what you think you see'. The real ones were often wonky, so are mine. Inner ends. 101 DMBS and DMBC have overhead flashes on the windows for some reason, so these will go on after a couple of coats of matt varnish to the rest. None of the pictures I can find of 101s in NSE have the 'C1' lettering on the inner ends, but 117s often do. Anyone know why? Have assumed it was something to do with shorter vehicles but may be wrong. Side detail of L207s DMBS. And yes, that Thames logo (Replica Railways transfer) really is shoehorned in at the end, but then the real ones were (see here). Painful closeup. In retrospect, if I had taken the moulded handrails off and fitted wire ones I might have bought myself another 0.5mm. Numbers. With all these repaints I was going to get one of the custom transfer people to knock me up some ready made sets to save time, but I've had difficulty getting in contact with one of them that I've used before (8 months no reply - I think I've found an alternative company now - fingers crossed). However, at Warley about 20 years ago I picked up a load of Fox NSE transfers in a bargain box at a stand (I think Howes) for about 50p each. Still using them all this time later - literally a number at a time in some cases. I think they look OK - most people won't be looking as closely as this picture and there's more varnish and weathering to go yet. Not sure if there is a shelf life for waterslide transfers or I've just been lucky. 121DTS has a couple of differences, most noticable it has the earlier version of NSE with the angled corners and the red double arrows. Did have a bit of a moment with this one. It is well documented that the door furniture (handles and bump stops) are in the wrong place on the Lima model. Yep, but time, patience and resilience to a nearly 2 year old meant I left them alone this time. Got the stripes in the right place, OK the bump stops are in the white, not the bottom of the blue, can live with it. Then came to put on the NSE logo and text. Oops. Ended up cutting this transfer into five pieces, nipping bits out of them with a scalpel and then applying with Micro Sol and Micro Set. Think I got away with it. Matt varnish next I think. Not sure after that. Progress might slow slightly as I am hoping to get back to work next week. Rich

Good Evening. While waiting for some transfers to arrive (still not the custom ones - a bit stuck there - bubble car is going to be 55031 looking like this, but need some very small unofficial names, unusual blue set number and smaller than usual NSE logo - any suggestions?), have decided to move on with 101 set since I was feeling buoyed up by L211 finally working (turns out it was the Hornby chip in the DTS), and all the bits were in front of me. So, it appeared painted on the Oxford Road thread a while ago and got as far as gloss varnish. This is the one that started me moving with a bit of DMU modelling after quite a while. I was at the DEMU show last year looking at Paul Wade's excellent display of NSE stock - most of which from Tonbridge West Yard. Much of it is Lima, and it all looks great. Then when the Bachmann 101 rocked in at £250 and baby number 2 spelled the end of disposable income, a £35 second hand Lima 101 was picked up at the Bristol show. Lima version of NSE livery was stripped off, picked up a very cheap Hornby 101 chassis from ebay for the DMBS and on with the paint job in the usual style. Following my teeth grinding with the 115 bogies mentioned above, I decided for the DMCL to use more traditional double pickups as below. The Hattons chip seems much happier with this. Slightly more friction, but the powered chassis I found for this is one of the ones without traction tyres so wasn't likely to be pulling anything other than this anyway so detailed both end bufferbeams so I wouldn't forget! There is just about space to get both wires through the centre of the Lima bogie mount. Then onto the lights. This 101 has the centre high intensity headlight. As yet, this isn't done by Black Cat so I took one of the circuit boards and glued an 0805 surface mount LED in the middle of it. Luckily these can be purchased pre-wired from Layouts4U as I would not have a prayer of wiring one of these. The only trick was to glue it (5 min epoxy from the poundshop - seriously good - get packs of 8 superglue and spray glue too) to a small fillet of plasticard first so as not to cause any shorts on the original circuit board. Picture probably explains better - original from Black Cat above, my modifications below. And attached. And with body on. Doesn't look so bright in this picture but it is, and I do need to paint the inside of the cab in black to avoid light bleed. The boards are actually designed for 117 or 121 and the 101's lights are slightly further apart, but I will add lenses using a short length of fibre optic (Layouts4U again) when they'e all painted and they will be clear enough. And with L211 for comparison. Some will have spotted that I opened up the destination blind on one of them. Still thinking about how to do this, and whether to do it to the others. There will be a DMU depot here at some point in the future, currently thinking of basing it on the old one at Marylebone. Will eventually get around to building it. If I did it now Thomas and Friends would move in anyway. Transfers next - my favourite bit - makes them look more real somehow. Rich PS I do paint other colours. Not often.

Thank you to all those who have responded - I think I have cracked it. Having tried every combination of different DMU vehicles and run over it countless times with the multimeter I concluded that I would have to unwise the chip. Did so and put in a basic Bachmann one and it ran no problems. Put the errant Hornby chip in something else temporarily and same problem, it would only run one way if paired with a Hattons decoder, shorting out the layout when reversed. No idea why this should be, have tried a reset on both but to no effect. I now have a functional DMU but with a chip I can't hide so will have to invest in something a bit smaller. Thank you again for all the help. If anyone has suggestions of small but reliable chips I'd love some. Rich

Hello. I think the yellow looks better, bright white can make everything look a little clinical somehow. The first time I took my layout to an exhibition in a school sports hall it looked really weird as all the fluorescent lights somehow made everything look more plasticky. Good luck with the baby too - it was about four months between the birth of our first and me getting back in the same room as the layout. Two under two now, but we're often in there doing something as my son likes 'helping'! Rich

Hello. No sound or stay-alive. Track is flat with good weight to the chassis and has all wheel pickup as using a pair of Bachmann bogies. Am working through a process of elimination tonight. Have disconnected the lighting and the head and tail lights, all these work fine with another decoder in another unit. Third run with multimeter still found no faults or shorts. Have tried propelling it in both directions with a variety of other units - no issues. Have tried the motor coach with range other trailers and running in consist with other units - no issues there either. It must be something to do with how the Hornby chip reacts to the Hattons one. Unfortunately I only have the one Hattons one connected at the moment so can't compare. Think I may have to switch to see if that makes a difference - annoyingly I hard wired it in. Not letting this beat me! Thanks to all for suggestions, by all means keep them coming! Rich

Sorry, I do mean PowerPro - the 5A system. Large twin circuit layout - will happily run5/6 locos at once so don't think it is a power issue but may be wrong. I have the NCE circuit breaker too, set for about 4A (following blowing up a sound fitted A4 that derailed and bridged a set of points!). Had no issues with this - it just cuts the power in the event of a short. Will try testing them again tonight when the small ones have gone to bed. Thank you again for all ideas. Rich

Can see the logic in this, but can't find anything untoward with either chassis - foreign objects etc, nothing on the pickups, no excessive bogie movement. But the real kicker is that the power car will push or pull anything else around the layout with no problem, and the trailer car will be pushed or pulled by anything else with no problem. Have been through both again this morning looking for shorts but could find none. Here is the latest brainteaser though: still convinced about the decoders not liking each other I reprogrammed the trailer car to a different number, then tried running them as a consist. It works forward fine, in reverse it works to speed step 4 - then shorts out! Really hurting my logic now! Thank you to all those which suggestions, won't get a chance to get in there until tonight now with small children awake but if anyone has any more ideas I'd be very happy. Thanks again Rich

Not really sure how to do that. I have a multimeter - would anyone mind clarifying? Thanks Rich

Good Evening Folks. A small update this evening as have been a bit bedeviled with DCC gremlins the last couple of days. Another unit has jumped the queue ahead of the 115 as I am having a few issues with the pickups. Multimeter shows full track voltage wherever I put them on the layout, but in motion they are a bit too - for want of a better word - flickery. The current rarely drops out altogether, but seems to fluctuate between about 11.2V and 14.5V. With an LED strip connected you'd never know - even without any kind of smoothing circuitry or capacitor - but the DCC chips I've tried (Digitrax, Hattons, Bachmann) all seem to agree that they really don't like it. So having a think. In the mean time, L211 - the class 101 DMCL / class 121 DTS hybrid. This is the one with the DTS chassis shown above that has been cobbled together from all sorts of bits in the spares box - most usefully the Bachmann bogies as these seem to offer more reliable pickup than my attempts at the moment. Various pictures have been shown above already but just to update: Attaching pickup wires from bogies together. Also routing wires from head and tail lights. Mentioned these are from Black Cat (here) - quite impressed with these. There is a small recess at the back where the Lima power bogie used to be. I mounted a false floor below the original guides, and the Silver Fox seating section from the conversion kit has a little more space beneath than the Lima moulding so that's where the decoder needs to be. Then decoder in. Had a Hornby Sapphire spare. Smallest one I had, but still a squeeze. Someone once said DCC was only 2 wires - in an early Model Rail magazine I remember reading in the 1990s. Whoever that person was - I will find you... And finally onto the layout on test. Bodies only resting on to see the effect. Transfers, matt varnish, weathering, glazing next for them. Unfortunately here ran into another gremlin. Set works perfectly with power car leading - will go anywhere, all lights working etc. Hit reverse and the head and tail lights reverse, it moves about three inches and then shorts out the whole layout. Been through it with a multimeter twice but can see nothing wrong so have put a question in the help area of the forum. This is where I lose patience with DCC - I know everything is correctly connected, but I have absolutely no clue whatsoever why or how it can work perfectly one way and not the other. Will sleep on it and hope someone (probably everyone!) out there knows more about this than me. Rich

Standard Bachmann tension locks in NEM pockets - plastic. Rich

Nope, no connection between the cars. Was going to but the Bachman pickups proved good enough without. Standard Bachmann tension locks between them so nothing metal between the two. What has me baffled is that it works fine one way! Thanks for suggestions. Rich

Hello. I am hard wiring some DMU bits together and have got myself stuck. I'm afraid my level of knowledge with DCC is a bit pathetic. I am happy building things from scratch, adding pickups, lights, sound etc, but if after connecting all the same colour wires to each other it doesn't work, I don't really have a clue as to why. So I'm hoping someone out there can explain what on earth I've done wrong here. DMU. Power car is a Hornby (ex Lima) 101. I have added blue, yellow, white, green wires to the DCC socket and connected head and tail lights and internal lights. All work perfectly, run it all round the layout, both directions - no problems. It has a Hattons decoder. Trailer car is a conversion, but essentially a Lima chassis sitting on some spare Bachmann bogies I had so ready made good pickups. I have wired in the same head and tail lights and interior lights connected to a Hornby Sapphire chip - smallest I had, limited space. All lights work correctly on the bench, all connections good. The mystery: running forwards (power car leading), all is good, all lights on, will go anywhere. Put it in reverse, and it shorts out the entire layout. Take the trailer off and run the power car in reverse - no problems. Take the trailer car off and push it around in reverse- all lights on, no problems. Can even push the trailer car in either direction with another loco - no problems. Totally baffled. Have been all over both with multimeter and am as sure as I can be that there is no short. Both vehicles work independently just fine, but when together only in one direction. Clash of decoder settings? Any and all suggestions gratefully received! Thank you! Rich Ps Layout uses NCE Procab.

Hi Guy. Missed it unfortunately. First one I've missed in 15 years. Absolutely gutted as the layout lineup was fantastic - genuinely second to none. Very glad to hear it went so well. My appendix burst a few days beforehand - not an experience I can recommend! Still can't drive or lift anything. DMU bits keeping me sane. Rich

OK, electrical pickup - the 115 in this case. So you've seen the wheels in one of the posts above, and now the bogies are done the next phase. Easier to show than explain. So bogies upside down and a strip of Phosphor Bronze added with superglue. Had to be a bit careful here to make sure all were handed the right way. Wheels then get added in and tails of the DCC Concepts pickup springs soldered on. Have then drilled a hole very carefully through the centre of the bogie mount. Decoder wire is thin enough that it is possible to do without unduly weakening the clip - one of the reasons for reusing the Lima bogies is their resilience to my son's handling. Easier to see from underneath. Reunited with the chassis of the 115 DMBS and TS. (apologies for mess!) Initial tests with multimeter seem to suggest all is good. Next I'll have to see how they go with a decoder and some lights. Not that I have any idea where a decoder is going to go in that TS yet.... Rich PS Forgot to say - couplings. Settled on mounting a NEM pocket on the top which allows using either a Bachmann short cranked coupling or a Kadee no.19. Had lots of the Bachmann so using them for now.

Good Evening All. Some more fumblings during my enforced idleness. First some bits on painting. I have modified, detailed and built a fair few DMUs over the years, but my attempts at weathering have not been up to much. I have tended just to give things a misting of brown and leave it at that. The result being that they look better than not doing it, but I've found myself wanting to have a go at a few more techniques so this pile of DMUs seemed a good place to start. I picked up a copy of 'The Art of Weathering' by Martyn Welch and have tried a few of the techniques he mentions. It is a really good book, but there are a few bits I have tweaked. It was written in the early 90s and a few of the Humrol colours are no longer available. There are some new products around though - like the Tensocrom range of filter shades. I also have a copy of the Model Rail DVD 'Weathering Expert', and have searched through here inspired by James Makin's excellent workbench among others. So onto the mess. First up the bogies. Could debate at length which are the best representation of DMU bogies, but I had Lima ones so I'm using them. The left hand picture below shows the effects using techniques in Martyn's book. Mainly an airbrush mix of Humbrol Metalcote Gunmetal (27004), and Light Grey (64). Then a misting of Leather (62) for the brake dust. The effect seemed a little too light looking at the pictures I had so decided to tone down the axleboxes in particular with Tensocrom Oil and Smoke shades as recommended in the Model Rail DVD. Similar fun had on the underframes with a few extra details picked out. For the exhaust pipes I painted them in the Leather shade, then while wet stippled some talcum powder to give it a little texture. When this was dry I ran some Tensocrom Smoke over it to tone it down a bit further. I have also drybrushed some Humbrol Matt Black (62) and Metalcote Gunmetal around some of the darker / oilier areas. Final jobs around the buffers. Something I've only recently started doing and then wondered why I hadn't been doing it for years - painting the buffer shanks in silver. This really makes a difference - not sure why I've never got around to it before. Humbrol Chrome Silver Metallic (191) in this case. Then a blob of grease on the bufferhead. A mix of Matt Black and Gunmetal blobbed on with a cotton bud. Fairly happy so far, may tweak when they'e all back together but would welcome any comments / suggestions. Rich

Results of this afternoon's fiddling while Thing 1 was at nursery. First. The state of the chassis of the class 121 DTS. Began life as a Lima powered 117 DMBS. Bogies off, all mouldings of engine below solebar off, buffers off (one buffer beam was broken off anyway). Then add new buffers from Wizard Models, coupling hooks from Lanarkshire Models, underframe gubbins suitable for a DTS from the spares box - mostly chopped up Lima, Bachmann or DC Kits, bogie mounts from a scrap Bachmann chassis and various bits of plasticard to fill the gaps. Could I just have picked up a Lima TS second hand. Yes (and with hindsight I am wondering) - but I already had all these bits, so I can kid myself that this didn't actually cost anything. Next. Haven't been able to find DMU buffer beam detailing kits for ages. I think they were made by Craftsman? So how hard can it be to knock some up out of bits of brass and wire. Well, very, for me, but burns heal. I think they'll look OK when painted in and weathered. And the buffers on the right are level - had to check when I saw the photo - I hate closeups. Finally. Door handles and grab handles. Quite a lot to paint on a suburban unit. Thank goodness for paint pens. More when it occurs. Thank you all for kind messages. Rich

Very kind, thank you. Nothing fancy in the methods. Picked up a deal from Eileen's Emporium at Warley about 10 years ago, small compressor and basic double action airbrush for £100. Have since added an extraction booth (same source, about £40), and a face mask from Screwfix for about £10. Usually use Railmatch paints, but early NSE like these has to be Phoenix as Railmatch don't do the lighter blue. I tend to use the same manufacturer for each job just in case they react in any weird way. Biggest boon I've found in recent years is Phoenix pre-thinned airbrush ready varnish. Really like this as always had trouble thinning varnish consistently before. Moving it all into the shed really helped too (no fumes near pregnant wife or baby) as I don't have to pack it all up again every time. Rich

So next onto the 121 that will power the 115 above. Hornby offering this time to take advantage of the slightly more modern motor. I have upgraded various Lima DMUs with the Hornby motor bogie and they seem to run OK. I make a few adjustments to the start voltage (more trial and error than anything else - I understand about 10% of what DCC can do at best) to make them a bit easier to shunt around on Oxford Road. So stripped the bodyshell and filler for the grooves in the roof. Then the same filling, sanding, priming, paint as the one above and reached this stage this morning: Decided to model one of those that gained the black window frames, rather than the full black square around the cab windows. Much head scratching of how to do this - Sharpie permanent marker in the end. Also still needs a few tweaks, varnish, transfers, weathering. Chassis has been resurrected from the scrap box so is already weathered, but needs more detail added. Will get new buffers, steps etc. I tend not to fit end pipes to 121s as I like their flexibility of having a coupling at each end to add to any train - very much like the real thing. Have done the wiring on this one though. Fitted head and tail lights from Black Cat (can be found on ebay) - very easy to use and much easier to wire than individual LEDs. Will need a short length of fibre optic to make the lens, but this will be fitted after weathering. Interior lights are from an LED strip again from ebay - I bought 5m of this stuff for £5 so enough to do the whole fleet. Can be easily cut into short lengths. Pics of both ends. Shows the interior painting too. Brightness of the lights is a matter for debate. Obviously the real thing had 60s style filament bulbs that were little better than a candle. I've found under most exhibition lighting they don't look too bright, and at home my son likes watching them disappear or reappear from tunnels so I'm not too worried. Rich

Good Evening, Well, I promised more on DMUs so I'll start with the 115. I am currently only modelling half a four car set having been inspired by this excellent picture on Martin Loader's brilliant Honda Wanderer site. I strongly recommend a visit if you've never seen it, but it is quite addictive. It showed half a 115 set running with a 121, and made me feel very happy when I saw it because I was sure I had been on something of that ilk at the time when the depots were throwing out any combination of anything to keep the service going. And I had a load of Lima bits floating around so why not. Apologies for the number of photos, but better than my waffle. Some already featured on the Oxford Road thread, but to keep it all together and bring it up to date: DMBS was straightforward enough - has an extra bay of seats and a smaller brake section than the Lima 117, so an extra window bay added from a scrap bodyshell and the brake doors moved back a bit. Also made the first window behind the drivers cab the same size as the others as this is the wrong size on the Lima moulding. On most liveries I wouldn't bother, but the angled upsweeps at the end of the NSE don't fit otherwise. TS coach was a multiple cut and shut using sections of 2 donor Lima 117 TCL coaches. I chose to retain the door furniture (despite it being a bit inaccurate, so cut each section as a zig-zag around the opening face of the door. Picture shows this better. With various reversals it was possible to do it in 5 sections. Then all you have to do is stick them back together straight - how hard can that be? Much fiddling later. I ran a strip of plastruct along just under the window line to keep things square. I also found that mounting it on the scrap chassis was a good way of aligning things. Then much filler, sanding etc. Roof vents are castings from MJT. There might be some slightly more accurate ones out there, but these are pretty close. More filling and sanding. Tend to use green Squadron filler for the most part (well ventilated - it's got nasty stuff in), but also became a big fan of Deluxe Materials Plastic Putty for this. Then on with the paint. Should have bought shares in masking tape for this. Painting a lot of NSE at the moment and it takes metres of the stuff to do each vehicle. Different people tend to approach it in different ways, I go white, yellow, grey, blue, red, black. In the shed for some red. Recently wired the shed with some armoured cable to save me trailing an extension lead across the garden - very happy with man-cave 2 now. So on to today. This is the DMBS as of this morning. Still quite a few jobs to do. Wheels are being painted using jig above. New wheels being fitted - excellent product from Peters Spares who have invested in some modern standard Lima accessories. Proper modern profile wheels to peculiar Lima axle length, and reasonable price. These have DCC Concepts pickup springs being added to provide power to head and tail lights and interior lighting. TS looks like this. Still a few livery jobs to do before gloss varnish, transfers, weathering. Need to paint in the door and grab handles. A few little bits to neaten up here and there. Bogies will be weathered when all electrical pickup bits have been fitted. Then of course an enormous amount of Shawplan Laserglaze to fit. Might test my patience! More later. Rich PS Should say that huge amount of thanks needs to go to those who put their research and ideas on here. Couldn't have got this far without the likes of Tom Curtis, Clive Mortimore, Paul Wade and others. Thanks guys.

Hello All, Decided to start a workbench thread for all the bits and pieces that could apply to both layouts or neither. Will concentrate the rolling stock adventures there unless there are pictures of them on the layout. Link is here or in signature below. Thanks Rich

Welcome to my (attempt at a) Workbench I'm still not entirely sure I justify having one of these as a separate thread, I'm very much a bumbling amateur. I'm usually the person you're behind at the Squires stand at a show trying to figure out what the tools actually are without injuring myself too severely. I have an exhibition layout (Oxford Road) which really wasn't designed to exhibit but holds together somehow, and a home layout (Catford) in the early stages of construction with the enthusiastic support of my 1 year old son. I tend to model the 80s and 90s Network South East, but I have been known to wander. I have a large fleet of steam that belonged to my father, and more recently came a bit up to date putting together bits of the NR HST set to amuse the boy. But I do keep finding myself doing things that don't really apply to either layout, or some random pieces of rolling stock that could be on both, hence this thread. I hope it isn't too laughable. Please do ask any questions and I will try to come up with an answer that makes it look like I did it deliberately. So: first thing. Working on some Lima DMU conversions at the moment, details to follow. Realised I had large numbers of replacement wheels to paint both to weather and to add conductive paint for pickups. I have very unsteady hands so came up with the following solution: OK, kind of hard to tell. Imagine a potter's wheel with a magnet on it. I mounted a polo shaped neodynium magnet on a motor with a gearbox giving about 60rpm. 9v battery and a switch. Fixed to block of wood with hole for paint pot and couple of lengths of old rail as a drying rack. Wheel is held in place by the magnet, turn it on, apply brush to one point and paint whole wheel without getting it all over the tread, my hands, clothes, the cat etc. Seems to be working quite well so far. Particularly good with the silver conductive paint as it takes about 3 coats to work. More on the wheels and pickups when I get onto DMUs later. More as it happens. Rich

Hello Another small update. Just to prove that there are other bits to these DMUs. Had a spare few minutes the other day to start on the chassis for the 101/121 hybrid set. All of these are being done on the cheap as with two children under 2 I no longer have any disposable income that isn't spent on plastic tat to scatter widely across the house and garden for me to tread on at night! Anyway, in the spares box I happened to have a spare Limby 101 power car underframe minus bogies, a spare Limby 121 motored chassis, a Lima 117 dummy motored chassis, and a pair of Bachmann 108 bogies. Long since forgotten how. So 101 has gained the bogies from the 121 since they are substantially the same Limby mouldings. I thought I might as well use the DCC socket since it had one so have had to run all the wires from pickups back to that, as well as connecting all the lighting wires while the socket was upside down. Also added cast buffers. Other detailing like lamp brackets and bogie steps go on later as I will break them while fiddling otherwise. Progress so far: Also a quick one of the production line of the interiors. Still much to do here: More when it happens. Bodies have gained grey, blue currently drying. Still unsure on whether I need a workbench thread. Rich

Hello All, Apologies for the delays with updates - baby 2 taking up most of the time at the moment. Anything layout related seems a very long time ago. I do remember sleep.... A quick update on DMU bits as I seem to have a silly number of things on the go at once: Lima 101 repaint is just about complete. Is in gloss varnish awaiting transfers. Did order these from a custom supplier about 6 months ago but think he's a bit busy. Interior half painted, chassis has new buffers and a Hornby motor but otherwise unchanged. Class 115 has made it to the paint shop and gained primer, NSE white, grey and light blue. Just the red and black to go. Interior is painted. Chassis awaiting new buffers and couplings. Did test with Kadees but without corridor connections they look peculiarly far apart and you have to mount the boxes so far out they look ridiculous. May resort to tension locks. Class 121 has reached same stage as the 115. Not as much to do on the chassis for this one as I had previously had it running under something else. Hybrid 121 DTS / 101 DTCL has got as far as NSE white, so a bit to do here. Got a bit stuck trying to get the resin silver fox bits to stick to anything else! Aim is to have them all with interior lighting and head and tail lights (use Black Cat for these - very good). Have all the bits, and replacement wheels for the Lima ones, but need to fit DCC concepts pickup springs and get on with the conductive silver paint. Need to set up a production line I think. Looking at all this I wonder whether I should set up a workbench thread. I have thought about it in the past, but consider myself a ham-fisted amateur compared to the great and the good here. Suggestions gratefully received. Happy Easter all. Rich