GarrettTheThief

Every photo I've seen have been exclusively Mk2Ds. I'm building a rake using coach numbers corresponding to the Derby Etches Park depot (DY). I take it both were used a lot, but I'm hesitant to get Mk2Es due to the inaccuracies. They just bother me.

On the first point, it's much the same for me. Doing the research is part of the fun and for me, the correct vehicles is part of the hobby. But where there's little information or doing things to a T would require getting more stock than necessary, I like to adopt a generic approach too.

What has six arms, six legs and two heads? Nirvana.

Okay, now I'm a little stuck on Central Trains Green. Can anyone please help me with this one? Cheers.

I remember seeing the PC in tow with a locomotive as the bus from Gotham passed under a railway bridge near Loughborough. Also, that's awesome, Wild Boar!

What do you call The Bank of England on a train? Rolling stock.

I see where you're coming from. I noticed that some of the Sheffield-London semi-fast services call at Kettering so that already provides a link to the other stations with the London-Corby service.

Thanks for the info. I was going to run these loco-hauled services during the MML period but I planned on using one of my 47/8 locos and rake of Mk2Ds, all in Swallow livery. It would definitely simplify things. If I wanted something closer, I could use my Freightliner 2-tone Green Loco, that's close to 47488: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2827/10510389134_9f8e40e738_z.jpg Do you have any more information about the specific Virgin services that ran through Leicester on Sundays? I have a Virgin HST I was going to use for a Rio rake but I could always repurpose it (I might use those with Rio trains anyway and pretend the branding isn't there somehow...). On the Sunday MML closure, how far back is this? I noticed that some of the Sunday journey times are surprisingly long in the mid-80s timetables.

What route does the Liverpool-Norwich service take when it goes via Loughborough? Does it join the Birmingham-Peterborough Line North/East of Leicester (assuming you can join that line from both sides without having to turn around at Leicester)? Are those few morning services the ones that go via East Midlands Parkway and bypass the Erewash Valley Line and Nottingham entirely?

Links to Beeston were common once the Coventry-Nottingham service was introduced (was it around 1987/1988?) as they were stopping. Before that, there were maybe two or three local services a day to Nottingham and Derby, not many of the express services stopped at Beeston and Long Eaton. By 1989, links from Leicester to Long Eaton were still crap since most services were seen by Crewe/Derby - Nottingham/Lincoln Central services. There were a few Sunday Nottingham/Coventry services which departed from/terminated at Derby and those stopped at Attenborough and Long Eaton, but that was it. EDIT: and also Lincoln/Nottingham to Birmingham New Street via Derby. So links from Leicester were crap, but you could always change at Nottingham. Also, agreed 100% on Midland Mainline. Shame that the St Pancras to Derby stopping service was replaced with a St Pancras to Sheffield semi-fast by East Midlands because they are (bar peak services) direct from London to Leicester so there are fewer services to the intermediate stations.

Additionally, according to the 1986 BR Summer Timetable, there were few InterCity services which called at St Albans, most of them were Northbound services (EDIT: okay, maybe not). I'll post the specific services later. EDIT: the services! Northbound: 0925 HST London St Pancras - St Albans - Wellingborough - STOPPING - Leicester - Loughborough - Nottingham (1122) Sunday 0900 HST London St Pancras - St Albans - STOPPING - Leicester - STOPPING - Nottingham (1202) Southbound: 0014 Loco Chesterfield - Derby - Loughborough - Leicester - Kettering - STOPPING - St Albans - London St Pancras (0509) 1835 HST Nottingham - Loughborough - Leicester - STOPPING - Bedford Midland - St Albans - London St Pancras (2037) 2052 HST Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Loughborough - Leicester - STOPPING - St Albans - London St Pancras (2348) 2355 Loco Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Loughborough - Leicester - Kettering - STOPPING - St Albans - London St Pancras (0509) Sunday 0014 Loco Chesterfield - Derby - Nottingham - Loughborough - Leicester - Kettering - STOPPING - St Albans - London St Pancras (0537) Sunday 1900 HST Nottingham - Leicester - STOPPING - St Albans - London St Pancras (2059) Sunday 2040 HST Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Loughborough - Leicester - STOPPING - St Albans - London St Pancras (2335)

Interestingly, there was a service pattern in 1989, or semblance of one (and presumably towards the end of Sectorisation). After checking the 1989 BR summer timetable, I got this (I cut out some of the detail here just to shorten things): InterCity MML 1989-1993 Service Pattern: * All trains assumed to be HSTs unless otherwise stated * Northbound Services (Monday - Saturday) - Two trains per hour at xx00 and xx30 between 0700 and 0000 - One train every 1.5 hours to Sheffield between 0700 and 1600 - Generally call at either Luton or Kettering, Leicester, Loughborough, Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield - 1600 also calls at Long Eaton - First service at 0700 calls at Luton, Kettering and Market Harborough and skips Loughborough - Second service at 0830 calls at Kettering, 1000 at Luton, services alternate - This is followed by an hourly to Sheffield between 1700 and 2300 - Generally at xx00 with somewhat irregular calling patterns - One train every 1.5 hours to Nottingham between 0730 and 1725 - All services go straight to Nottingham except the first service at 0730 which also calls at Loughborough - 0730 additionally calls at Bedford and Wellingborough - Remaining alternate between calling at Luton or Kettering - Weekday 1725 goes direct to Leicester and additionally calls at Loughborough - Goes on to Leeds from Nottingham calling at all stations on the Erewash Valley Line - This is followed by an hourly to Nottingham between 1730 and 1930 - 1730 and 1830 call at more stations - Saturday 1730 reverses to Sheffield calling at all stations on the Erewash Valley Line - 1930 reverses to Leeds from Nottingham calling at all stations on the Erewash Valley Line - Weekday 2100 and 2330 are stopping (only skipping Bedford) and reverse to Derby - One train every 1.5 hours to Leicester between 0800 and 1530 - First service at 0800 is stopping and takes 1h31m - Remaining services up to 1530 are stopping between Bedford and Leicester - Additional 1804 calls at Wellingborough and Kettering - Goes on to Derby calling at Long Eaton only - The journey time indicates this MAY have been a loco-hauled service - The only Saturday service to Leicester is the 1100 which is stopping - Additional services - 0010 Kettering to Sheffield stopping (0141) - 0012 Bedford to Derby stopping (0150) - 0605 SPRINTER to Derby stopping (0737) - 0843 SATURDAY Leicester to Scarborough loco-hauled service (1224) - 1440 SATURDAY INTERCITY HOLIDAYMAKER Paignton to Nottingham (1959) * Northbound Services (Sunday) - Hourly xx30 between 0830 and 1530 followed by two trains per hour at xx05 and xx35 between 1635 and 2305 - First service at 0830 and every first service goes to Sheffield - Second service at 1030 and every second service goes to Nottingham - Irregular calling pattern but somewhat consistent departure/arrival times - Additional services - 0006 Bedford to Derby stopping (0150) - 0018 (Loco-hauled?) Leicester to Leeds via Derby semi-fast (calls at all main stations, only skipping Long Eaton) (0322) * Southbound Services (Monday - Saturday) - One train every 1.5 hours from Sheffield at xx24 and xx54 - Similar calling pattern/stations to Northbound service - First service at 0514 also calls at Kettering, Wellingborough and Luton - Second service at 0624 also Market Harborough, Kettering and Wellingborough - Saturday 0651 stops at more stations - Third service at 0633 is the 0514 from Leeds - Goes via the Erewash Valley Line calling at all stations on the way before arriving at Leicester, calling at additional stations - Fourth service at 0720 is fast as normal, only skipping Loughborough (no Saturday service during this hour) - Fifth service is the 0732 which goes via Nottingham - Calls at all stations on the Erewash Valley Line and calls at additional stations - Saturday service departs Sheffield 0706 with the same calling pattern as on Weekdays - Sixth service at 0820 is the 0730 from Leeds which calls at additional stations - Saturday service departs Leeds later at 0804 - Remaining services fit the Northbound pattern with the 0954 and the 1124 calling at additional stations - Weekday 1724, 1855 and 2054 call at additional stations but services in between follow the usual pattern - One train every 1.5 hours from Nottingham at xx07 and xx37 - First Weekday service at 0537 is fast to Leicester asnd stopping towards London - Second service at 0631 is fast to Leicester and calls at Market Harborough, Kettering and Wellingborough - This is the first Saturday service which departs at 0637 and additionally calls at Luton - Third service is the 0804 which calls at Loughborough - Saturday service is from Sheffield - see Sixth service from Sheffield above - Saturday 0900 is stopping towards Leicester and then only calls at Luton - Fourth service at 1007 starts the pattern calling at Loughborough and Luton and the 1137 calls at Loughborough and Kettering - Some variations with 1437, 1607 and 1737 on Saturdays call at additional stations between Leicester and London - 1907 is stopping, only skipping Beeston and Wellingborough - Saturday 1907 is only stopping South of Leicester, skipping Wellingborough - 2037 is the final service which calls at Market harborough, Kettering and Luton - One train every 1.5 hours from Leicester at xx00 and xx30 - First service at 1000 only skips Luton - Second service at 1130 only skips Kettering - Services alternate with this calling pattern - Last service at 1730 is stopping - The only Saturday services are the 1000 and 1300 with the same calling stations as weekday services - Occasional services from Derby - 0300 SPRINTER Derby to Bedford (skips Long Eaton, Loughborough and Market Harborough) (0423) - 0505 to London (skips Long Eaton, Loughborough and Market Harborough) (0702) - 0630 Weekday service to London (calls only at Kettering and Wellingborough) (0830) - Additional 0822 SATURDAY INTERCITY HOLIDAYMAKER Nottingham to Paignton (1321) * Southbound Services (Sunday) - Services are highly irregular with at least one service an hour between 0700 and 2100 (none between 1900 and 2030) Just for anyone interested. Feel free to pick apart/elaborate/add.

Not a forum joke as such but I thought people here would appreciate this:

I'm interested in purchasing a few BR timetables. I have one from 1989, it's a thick one with everything in it. I'm interested in one dating back to 1985/1984 but I've seen a few for £14.99 I'm not sure I could justify spending that much.

I'm modelling 45/47-hauled rakes and in practically every photo I've seen, the Mk1s had Commonwealth bogies. For the sake of consistency, it's just easier if I convert the bogies on all my other Mk1s with a Replica Railways kit.. The only exceptions are: Regional Railways Mk1 coaches. These are Replica Railways models which already (correctly) have B4 bogies Departmental generator vans converted from BGs which I'll fit with B4s Lab 6 Prometheus which I'll fit with B10 bogies Any composite coach, I'll just keep the B1 bogies I'll keep an eye on this thread anyhow.

I tried to walk into Target but I missed.

Thanks for clarifying. Sorry, it turns out you did explicitly state that the timetable doesn't show the intermediate stations and I mistakenly overlooked that when constructing my reply.

I've taken note of which Luton station is called by which (the wiki page for the MML TOC is very informative) Also, though it's tempting, a slow-drip machine at that scale would be too fiddly. On a more serious note, I have considered installing remote-controlled sound cards from MyLoco as I'm going down the DC route. I might even install a remote-controlled smoke machine in each power car! I'm going to guess and say that services in the late 80s did. Judging from eastwestdivide's timetable, it seems that both St Albans and Loughborough weren't served for some time. I think that Meridian and the EMT HST I saw in a video must have been on that route as a special dispensation, probably Nottingham to Matlock via Derby. A fortnight ago I caught a 4-car Meridian from Loughborough to Leicester which stopped at all the Ivanhoe stations (the journey was about 3 minutes faster). This wasn't the St Pancras - Lincoln service. Are these often readily available for relief/replacement services or something? That aside I'm not modelling past 2007 (i.e. no East Midlands Trains), I'll probably hold off on doing the St Pancras - Derby - Matlock service when I bring in the Meridians. I was originally going to model loco-hauled services with five standard coaches, it's handy to know I only need one less. I'm prioritising Bachmann over Lima (and having to repaint the grey and add detailing/glazing), so obviously I save money and time, I have all the Mk2 coaches I need and I can always run them with Mk1s (I've seen photos of such rakes). Thanks, that was very informative. I do vaguely recall some loco-hauled sets on MML services in the early nineties and though they were rare, they still existed. I'll run my Swallow 47s and Mk2D coaches sporadically. eastwest, thanks for posting that timetable! This will be a huge help for me. Wish I could give more than one rating. Even the wiki page on MML states that the calling stations are general (I can imagine off-peak stopping services skipping some stations) but it's easier to work on a pattern. I'll try to find one in eastwest's timetable, then use that as a basis for late 80s and early 90s IC services. For that period, I plan to make Loughborough, Long Eaton and Beeston as regular stops for fast/stopping/both. I'll make stops at St Albans, Kettering, Wellingborough and Market Harborough irregular. Maybe each one every four services? Okay, planning time. I'll post my service patterns for both 1985-1987 and 1987-1994 when I'm done. Thanks again everyone!

Ideally for 1985 through to 1994. Cheers.

Does anyone remember the exact service patterns i.e how many stopping and fast services per hour to Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield?

Thanks for the replies, 18B! I need to add a Class 45 and Class 47/4 to my collection (I've got the detailing with the water tanks planned). I'm building a Mk1 Blue/Grey rake and as I move through the years, the 45/47 will haul a mix of Mk1 and Mk2/B/D stock. Shorter formations are for stopping services, longer formations are for "fast" services (with an extra buffet for longer distance journeys). I'm also building a Mk2D Swallow rake which will be hauled by a Class 47 (unbranded executive/swallow named "Bolton Wanderer"). I went a little too far back as the intended starting point is 1985, but it doesn't seem to change my plans much. I know that HSTs were around then, I might reserve those for Sheffield/Leeds to St Pancras and loco-hauled trains for all others. I agree on Midland Mainline. Planning the routes and services for this TOC has been the most fun part of the hobby so far. I read the Wiki page on them, they had to stop the St Pancras - Derby - Matlock service when the Turbostars were withdrawn since Meridians aren't allowed on the Derwent Valley Line (though I've seen a video of an EMT HST on that route). Here are the notes I've taken on MML services (journey times might not be accurate as they seem to be based more on recent Meridian trains). Though I'm not modelling anything after 2007, I've taken out a modellers' license and I'm also doing the St Pancras - Derby via Nottingham service that EMT does. MML express route from London St Pancras to Nottingham/Derby: London St Pancras - Luton Airport Parkway - Luton - Bedford - Wellingborough - Kettering - Market Harborough - Leicester - Loughborough EITHER Beeston - Nottingham OR Long Eaton - Derby MML express route from Derby to Burton-on-Trent: Derby - Willington - Burton-on-Trent MML express route from Derby to Barnsley: Derby - Belper - Chesterfield - Dronfield - Sheffield - Meadowhall Interchange - Barnsley MML express route from Derby to York/Scarborough: Derby - Chesterfield - Sheffield - Meadowhall Interchange - Doncaster - York - Scarborough MML express route from Derby to Sheffield/Leeds: Derby - Chesterfield - Sheffield - Doncaster - Wakefield Westgate - Leeds MML express route from Nottingham to Leeds via the Erewash Valley Line: Nottingham - Langley Mill - Alfreton - Chesterfield - Sheffield - Wakefield Westgate - Leeds MML express route from London St Pancras to Matlock: London St Pancras - Luton Airport Parkway - Bedford - Wellingborough - Kettering - Market Harborough - Leicester - Loughborough - Long Eaton - Spondon - Derby - Duffield - Belper - Ambergate - Whatstandwell - Cromford - Matlock Bath - Matlock MML Services: * Hourly xx00 semi-fast service to Derby which skips Luton (1h56m) - Limited extensions to Burton-on-Trent (2h26m) and Barnsley (3h14m) - Limited extension to Matlock (2h32m) served by Turbostars only - Saturday Scarborough extension (leaving Leicester 0742) * Hourly xx25 fast service to Sheffield (2h21m) calling only at Leicester, Derby and Chesterfield - Limited extension to Leeds (3h17m, 2h10m from Leicester) - Sunday extension to York calling at Doncaster only * Hourly xx30 semi-fast service to Nottingham (1h56m) which skips Luton Airport Parkway * Hourly xx55 fast service to Nottingham (1h41m) calling only at Leicester and Loughborough - Peak services also call at Luton and Beeston - Off-peak services between 8am and 10pm also call at Market Harborough - Limited extension to Leeds via Erewash Valley Line (e.g. depart Leicester 1930 and takes 2h55m from London) - Limited extension to Derby via Long Eaton (depart Leicester 1914 for a total journey time of 1h17m) * Sunday semi-fast from Leicester to York served by Meridians only calling at all major stops for a total journey time of 2h14m I think InterCity services can follow a similar pattern with Derby/Sheffield/Nottingham serving as the Northern termini (and Leeds for HSTs) with none of the extensions and no trains calling at Luton Airport Parkway (as it wasn't around then!). EDIT: I haven't forgotten Project Rio!

As part of planning for my Leicester station layout, I geeked up on services operated by the Midland Mainline TOC and I was originally going to use those as a basis for InterCity services. However, seeing how these services made changes when East Midlands Trains took over made me wonder if this would be correct. My main questions are: what were the main termini (besides St Pancras), what extensions did InterCity run, were the few loco-hauled trains used for stopping/shorter-distance services or did they operate the full distance between Sheffield and London, what were the typical calling stations, general service patterns and whatnot. Regional Railways was a non-issue because a few Wikipedia pages and Flickr photos helped me here, but there's less info on the express services. Cheers. EDIT: I only need to go as far back as 1980.

An explosion blew a hole in the Statue of Lenin. That left a nasty Marx. ... ... I'll see myself out.

I'm interested in painting a Class 67 in Swallow livery with parts suitable for late Sectorisation and working a WCML-style push-pull set. Whether or not this will come into fruition is another matter, especially as I want to model a real-life location. I like some of the fictitious works here.

Is it possible to install two motorised bogies in a locomotive safely? Or is a CD drive motor powerful enough to haul eight coaches and a weighted power car on a level incline if you don't need to reach top speed quickly?