sanspareil

Apparently Hornby have been asked today about the prospects on doing updated MK4's. They wont commit ether way which is a little strange as given they are doing the loco there is nothing of commercial sensitivity to lose, only to gain in cornering more of the market. I know a jorno in the Hobby has speculated that possibly Hornby are being cautious here, wanting to test the water and see how this all pans out (as in sales of their offering and if Cavalex pull theirs say which for sure would be green lights for Hornby). Not sure if Hornby will want to commit now to all new MK4's in case their 91 sales are low. But on the flip side many will now stick with Cavalex and hold off on the Hornby offering if theres no commitment now on future MK4's if you follow! So to summarise I am not now sure its set in stone that Hornby will do MK4's!

I think in time we will see a growing market for Railroad+, as more and more detailed models get released at higher and higher cost the current railroad line will look more and more dated. I think there might be room for say some small updating of these say (if thats viable). The big one from what i hear on modern image locos is just something as simple as some lights, even to a basic degree. When I sell Railroad models on eBay with LED lights they always sell for way more. PS Not too sure i understand what the Railroad+ is in the 2020 range, just some separately fitted detail like plates included?

I fear its the old tooling with lashed up TGS I am hopefully proved wrong! If it was new tooling I would have been right in there. I am still running modified lima Mk3's due to been under impressed last release. On the 91, yes a shame but business is business - we know the big legacy players are starting to fight back to the newer entrants.

Some nice announcements in there in general - some surprises for sure. Of course Cavalex wont be thrilled with the 91 announcement, we have to see how they react. Only concern is the lack of MK4's to go with it......will they come, you would think so? But how many years down the road. If Hornby wanted to really kill off the Cavalex project you would think they would have indicated some intention to retool the whole lot rather than leave people wondering? I am not sure I understand the some of the coach packs, the DRS Mk2 pack for example. A BSO and a TSO pictured, is that right (but in the caption 2x BSO and 1 TSO is listed which is even odder?!?)? The GA short set was 95% of the time TSO/TSO/BSO, so why not either make the train pack that or release a single TSO as an extra add on? Some personal amusement at some of the items, when talking to senior Hornby folks at shows some of these when i mentioned/suggested were met with a 'no chance' - now they are in the catalogue! Always a case of never say never!

Agree on the 87, the Bachmann 90 is more advanced than the Hornby 87 for near the same money!

It is very much business and we are seeing more aggression towards the new entrants from both Bachmann and Hornby - in the past of course it has even been between legacy manufacturers themselves duplicating and releasing competing products. Its publicly know that both the big legacy players are far from overjoyed with the likes of Accurascale and Cavalex to name two. Not to mention how we have seen Bachmann deal with probably their biggest account - Hattons.

So the rumours I heard were true. But it seems Hornby are not just doing a Railroad+ version but all the bells and whistles version (although i am sure it wont be up to the standards of Cavlex, more Class 87 standard). Time will tell now how Cavlex respond as there is no doubt it will weaken their business case to a degree. Hornby are sure to release the Mk4's in time (you would think!). I think the lack of carriage announcement is one area that maybe strengthens Cavlex, Its possible it will be 2-3 years until we see the MK4's from Hornby and how long for all the livery variants to be covered.

A question for those that have detailed the cab interior further than what Hornby offer (which is just grey plastic!). How do you get the cabs out, the fitment looks a lot more permanent and solid than many other models do. I dont want to experiment and beak something. Any one else got a proven way to get them out? Thanks PS over xmas I got my hands on both the Bachmann 90 and the Hornby 87. Both are great models but i personally feel theres no doubt overall the Bachammn model is the better of the two when you consider they are about the same price.

I was hearing some talk/gossip/speculation at Warley that Hornby are preparing something fresh on IC225 also. Now we have to be careful here , it could be (and probably is) just tosh of course, however has anyone else heard anything with any more substance either way? I tried to ask Hornby and whilst they didnt deny they didnt say yes either (as you would expect), basically theres nothing to go on that response. If there is truth in the story you would hope Hornby would allow Cavlex to continue as the Gold plated version and maybe Hornby just polish their current offering a little more. Make it like a Railroad higher end version, say just add NEM couplings/lights etc. I think theres room in the market for both such offerings.

I quite like the Hornby pan (for down operation and up on static display). I agree its totally useless for use in up position on the move, its un-sprung and fragile. On Hornby pan spares (plastic) i mentioned this to Simon Kohler at a show and said in general the Hornby spares situation is a joke but specifically the lack of this plastic pan as a spare is a real missed opportunity. Especially given the frailty of it and the fact many want to retro fit to other models to improve the look when used in down mode only. Simon fully agreed on both my points but to my knowledge I havent seen this as a spare yet or an improvement in spare supply in general. My conversation was over a year ago. I could find this out myself but if anyone can say here, how good is the Bachmann 90 pan in strength and sprung operation? I dread to think how much Bachmann would charge as a spare given some of their other spare prices!

Can anyone confirm is the £180 price tag before the early order discount or thats already discounted? The closing date to qualify for the pre-order discount price will be the the 30th of November 2019. Please note that all orders received after this date will not qualify for the pre-order discount of 10% off of the flinalised price and will be processed at the full final RRP price.

Livery application on the Scotrail coaches looks very good. Even managed to wrap the livery round to the hinges giving a much better overall look and shape. Not sure how they messed it up on the IC versions. I read the Hornby mag review of the IC ones and they found no livery errors to complain about despite all that this forum spotted. I like Hornby mag but their reviews are very shallow I think. They even praised the much maligned lower body colour!!

Its a real shame and a real shame for Hornby sales that they hash it up in the last mile as such. They get the body right but mess up on the final decoration. Its very sloppy. Not sure where the blame goes but surely for sales sake Hornby et al really should be on top of this kind of thing? Its pretty basic stuff, just google MK2F and spot the difference! How many thousands in lost sales will it add up to? I for one would have bought around 8-10 examples. Now begrudgingly (due to cost) having to probably go with Bachmann who seem to have more areas spot on.

I dont know if in time Hornby will do the RFB so you can make a full consistent XC rake of MK2F together. If you run the Bachamann RFB with the Hornby MK2 it really shows up livery wise and thus might put people off buying wider fleet of MK2F with Hornby. I raised this with Simon at a show, he said never say never but didnt seem too on board with the need. It surprised me a bit as Simon is normally well aware of the 'system' approach to modelling (and I see comment elsewhere about the lack of RFB so not just me). However Hornby have previous form here too not covering all the bases like Bachmann often do or just doing lash ups to fill the gap (ex-Lima MK3 TGS comes to mind).

Also seeing the livery doesnt wrap around the ends of the coaches enough (as far as the hinges as it should).

How do you obtain the 10% discount on an inner and outer pack bought at the same time? Does it apply to iron ores as well?

Not sure of the real reason be it China, Hornby's sloppiness in design or QC who knows. Hornby arent by any means the only ones to have livery errors but must be up there as one of the worst and prolific offenders.

A shame Hornby keeps making livery errors even though the product is lower priced, thats not an excuse. Surely as a manufacturer its just basic stuff to get right to try to ensure you maximise sales potential? Livery errors have the potential to decimate sales. Appreciate the issue Hornby has with the IC lower band colour and thats unlikely to change given the legacy they have now built up but the red/white banding widths/colour and the top cantrail stripe width are just school boy errors. Can you imagine smaller manufactures (the likes of Accurascale) making such errors, or at least in the frequency that Hornby do? Not a Hornby bashing post just ongoing frustration from a customers perspective.

Superb news Fran! Sorry I missed or mis-read the previous posting. Thanks for the reply. It will for sure make sense to do a run on all the iron ore inners I think. Personally im looking at the orange/greys.

Not wishing to cause any offence but have Accurascale made a bit of a major error in not doing the inners for the iron ore sets? With the need for only one grey outer per rake this creates problems creating prototypical longer rakes? Other than those with very small layouts almost everyone will want a rake of at least 10? I was going to order but seeing no inners means I might just hold off and keep my modified Lima rake instead

Busy show and had a good time. I notice how with modern times that some of the busiest retail stalls from the off are now those selling 2nd hand etc models. I noticed one of the bigger box shifters Invicta was seemingly absent? A couple of points of personal note layout wise: -Lots of micro layouts (as is common at shows now) but also a few very very large layouts. -Did I miss them or were there not any Modern Image type layouts? -I dont think there were any standard OO 'tail chaser/loop (action) type layouts of any genre this year? Nearest being Thornbury Hill for OO action. Happy to be corrected if I missed them. Personally not the best LFORM for me layout type wise this year, but appreciate everyone has their own preferences and you cant please everyone each year. I will be back next year.

Does anyone have a date yet when the 2020 show weekend will be? I have to book a late weekend in March away for 2020 in the next days and dont want to choose the show weekend!

So just to be clear, are will still looking at the total price of £130 with DJM direct and about £145 when finally on general sale? With Accurascale we are look at £160? Am I right in that so far (whilst looking good with wagons) Accurascale have no track record on locos to go on (but look promising as i say)?

Good to see this as the mainstream players (cough Hornby) have been dragging on a new model, Hornby really missed the boat here in territory historically theirs! However while I am very sure this will only have the very best detail but I do fear how much this is going to cost versus that if say Hornby had produced it maybe at slightly lower detail granted (but not Railroad spec). Anyhow lets see. I wonder how this might tempt Hornby (who dont seem afraid to ruffle the feathers right now) to respond in the next years if this ends up as a high priced/high detailed project (thinking MK2F case here)? Maybe a Railroad+ kind of new model or a significant tweaks of current model (NEM couplings/lights/better pantograph etc)? Or they just leave as now (basically a basic Railroad model).

Well im probably up for a 92 but haven't put my money down with either company yet. I am historically one of the more cautious types, especially given the content of this thread! So, do i hold out and wait who comes to market first, await more finished samples, even wait for forum reviews etc etc? Will I even be able to do it that way? Are both not general release items but made to order type? Thus by the time you see one, seen reviews its too late (unless there are future fresh production runs)?