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My numbers up, the magic digits flashed on my email tonight, a 66 is coming.

Very sure Bachmann are cogniscent of price and demand.

Some 158’s did very well, GwR for instance seemed to be very popular.

Scotrail I was surprised to see a few discounts, I expected that to do well.

Though legacy liveries I was dubious because in the financial balancing act, i’m sure some with stick with what they already have.

The 170’s a different story, as its a post privatisation unit, and some werent widely produced (Southern was a limited edition).

Brought up to date with Scotrail, EMR etc i’d imagine a lively response, as there is no older alternative.

Interestingly one has seen Southern 171’s in Manchester now, with EMR.

As an example look at the SWR class 450… not many will pay £500 for a BEp, but ebay has no issues with that for a class 450.

I suspect the way forward is smaller runs of units that offer many liveries, without much duplication in the past is the reciepe.

of course time is the key, theres so much outstanding from other manufacturers and lead times are often becoming closer to a decade, its assumed theres delays in development post covid that are much longer than prior, rolling back the clock one of the reasons Bachmann gave for ceasing the annual announcements was the growing lead times, and the expectations of modellers. The 158 took 7 years ?

it was 2014 since the last lot…

2018 the retool announced

So thats only 6 years, plus covid delays.

My guess it will come, as a new chassis upgrade, low floor motor, upgraded electrics, plux22 and working couplings, inline with the 158.

On 02/06/2024 at 03:44, pH said:

Early on, some Barry engines had no number on them - cab, bufferbeam, chalked or painted. One method of identifying was to collect as many numbers as possible from motion and any other numbered parts and go with the most common. 🫤

Robbing parts was rife at Barry.

Buy 1 loco get half free was a common phrase.

its not all steam either, look at the D600’s by the time they were cut up, no possible use for those “spare parts”, yet much of them was gone by scrapping.

47 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Excellent. If you could turn up more often we could put the train frequency back to before it was reduced.

Is that the imaginery reduced service between Ropley and Medstead, because of the implied lack of demand for passengers going to Alton, as was suggested up thread ?

or the whole line sensibly sizing demand to costs  ?

Tbh this is the wrong thread for moaning, this one is about a line being successful, lets not take their victory for the sake of whinging.

47 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

It's part of the Dept for Transport's cost cutting plan to meet the politicians' promises.

Replacement push bikes are cheaper to run the replacement buses. 

As a kid I used to think a fleet of emergency rollercoaster cars would be good for situations like this…

imagine descending shap on a rollercoaster, no problem with clearences, people packed closer together…

Agreed its a one way situation, but figured a helicopter could take it back up hill, fully loaded of course.

49 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

When I went into Redhill Control in 1968, Cromptons were still going through the paintshop to become blue. We could actually see trains from the window, and I recall Ken, one of the Motive Power Controllers, was carefully looking out to see the condition of every Crompton that passed. Since they were all actually based on the South Eastern, his cunning plan was to keep all the pristine blue ones on the Central, and send all the scabby green ones in need of TLC back east! 

I was always brought up to be told looks don't matter, its whats inside that counts.

That said my nights out always started out with the opposite and my morals gradually improved as the evening wore on.

On 02/06/2024 at 12:29, StuAllen said:

Went to Robertsbridge today, overall very impressed with the works done so far. Rail tour from Sheffield Park to Tenterden via East Grinstead and Robertsbridge anyone?

 

 

Nice to see another celebrity ED.

On 16/05/2023 at 17:20, Hal Nail said:

I hope this proves viable, particularly in the current climate. Whilst a mainline connection always seems sensible, the Midhants trains from Alton are generally very quiet and I doubt cover the cost of coal used to get up to Medstead, let alone all the additional infrastructure and maintenance.

So passengers starting from Alresford and Ropley get off at Medstead and go back. Dont bother with a full roundtrip they paid for ?

ive never been on an empty train anywhere at the mhr.

9 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I've already pointed out, twice now, that I know the reasons for electrification, and I've not argued against them. I know the way things are going and I know why they're going in that direction. All I've said is, basically, I'd prefer not to live in that particular world - it's a future that looks more unappealing than the present for me. I've not said "don't do it," all I said is that I hope I don't live to see it.

 

Value is simply whatever someone happens to find has value. What has value to you may not to me and vice-versa. If you change the world so that the only thing now fit for purpose is unappealing then you've devalued the world (sometimes unavoidable, but don't expect everyone to cheer it on). It's a big mistake to take a particular definition of it, stick to it rigidly, and then use that to claim that you are somehow right about a change and that anyone who'd prefer not to have it is somehow definitively wrong. That rigid definition is useful within certain confines (it's impossible to make useful decisions without it) but it's not the be-all and end-all.

 

Incidentally I don't see anything particularly ghoulish about hydrogen trains. "Self-combusting" is a bit of hyperbole, no? Perhaps expensive and impractical but there's no good reason for hydrogen to be any more dangerous than any other combustible fuel, perhaps less, since it'll quickly escape in to the atmosphere rather than pool.

 

Anyway this is all rather off topic.

Agreed our definitions of value differ.

inflation has a habit of increasing value by virtue of price alone.

i’m not sure anyone currently alive on earth today will be here to see the s&c electrified, so I dont think theres much to worry about.

6 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

Can we bring some 2EPBs from the secret stash and have them shuttling back and forth too please?

Oh go on.....

So thats why those MLVs are stored at Warcop ?

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

If it's not about making it better or improving utility then what's the point? All those wires weren't strung up on a whim, and since a lot of them (not all) appeared with nationalised networks then plenty of governments presumably decided that a country with them was better than without - a perfectly valid opinion. Anyway you're contradicting yourself, going on about costs and efficiency then saying it's not about improving utility?

utility and warranty combined make value.

Cost is only one measure of value.

Your only talking about utility, the need to have tractiom over the fells, but ignoring warranty… diesels are becoming less fit for purpose, even if utility remains (they are / remain useful).

Just because the purpose of burning oil, for traction is becoming less desirable, nd not fit for use doesnt remove the need for the utility e.g. traction over the cumbrian fells. 
 

We are looking at the last diesels to be built for creating value in transport in the UK, but as they get older their value declines… doing nothing will not hasten a replacement, but simply create a transport crisis down the road… were seeing desparate panic with ghoulish ideas like self combusting Hydrogen trains and Battery pie in the sky schemes… the real answer is right in front of us for 100 years.

The reason all our network isnt already AC is government money paying for OHLE vs private sector buying any old stock to fit the lines.

A way to solve this might be getting power companies to sell Kw directly to toc’s. If the kw prices were more competitive then it could fund more masts to be paid for by the energy companies themselves, especially as diesel isnt getting any cheaper, and a tax of rail use of diesel may level the playing field.

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

It also sounds like you've very much missed the point of my post. I very clearly pointed out that I know the reasons for electrification. You appear to be operating under the misunderstanding that if I don't like the results of something then I don't understand why it's done.

No I just dont see  value or warranty,  just utility in your argument… utility alone doesnt create value… to create value it has to be fit for purpose as well as fit for use.

36 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Doesn't change the fact that I hope it doesn't happen until after I'm dead.

 

I know fully well all the reasons, I'm not arguing against them, but that doesn't mean that I should like them or the world we're creating. As time passes I've found utilitarianism an increasingly bleak sentiment that is making the world less, not more appealing to live in.

 

Utilitarianism is just another sentiment - any definition of what makes things "better" always is. And why make a change? No good reason at all unless you find it better in some way. It's right in a democracy that it goes with the definition of "better" that appeals to the majority but it doesn't mean those who find their world diminished by "progress" are wrong, it's just a different opinion. If you go by utility and cost alone it's "better" to dump raw sewage in to rivers...

if there are no diesels on the mainline, then the mainlines without diesel have no reason to exist. I doubt battery tech will take on the s&c successfully for many decades, and the cost practicality of battery tech is absurd, when compared to overhead AC which exists efficiently for over 100 years.

Its not about when the s&c is electrified, but why is it taking so long, the UK should have been like Europes networks 40 years ago, theres really no excuses, its not about making it better / improving utility, its long proven, its really just catching up were we should be already.

Why it took a decade to wire up Preston to Manchester is anyones guess, but Wigan to Bolton is starting to look like another lifetimes work. Wiring up the s&c probably wont happen before the MML, and that will probably take 100 years on current form.

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

If it ever is I hope it's not until after I'm dead and buried...

 

I've certainly seen diversions on the S&C in the recent-ish past (well, probably within the last decade). Voyagers on it aren't usual after all. But that would've probably been a scheduled diversion rather than an emergency.

The S&C isnt a preserved railway.

Those campaigners in the 1980’s campaigned to keep it open, not as a chocolate box.

its continued value is in electrification.

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

The return of the 8-VAB? No, I have no idea where the extra vehicles would appear from.

Think theres a small clue in the article, “project 62000”, which is the MBSO, there are still two orphan MBSOs hanging about according to wiki, Ramparts at Derby, and LSL at Crewe.

The BSO would lend itself to a buffet conversion and an extra motor isnt a bad thing.

On 31/05/2024 at 09:18, Fredo said:

Hi, do you think maybe one day a model of unit 3417 will be available in South Western Trains BR blue?

Never say never, though re-runs of units at current pricing is off putting.

That said contemporary models have a higher level of interest from enthusiasts as well as modellers.

I suspect timing is key, and when the real thing moves again, interesting article last month about mainline economics of funding the VEP, considering options of catering, inserting additional vehicles or running with a 4TC to make it stack up.

https://www.setg.org.uk/crowd-funding-and-one-trick-ponies/

On 27/05/2024 at 21:57, 298 said:

It looked and sounded great at a very busy GWSR today- strange seeing it with 2999, it was like two versions of the same loco where their wheels didn't quite look the right size (no criticism of either project, it's more because I'm used to seeing Hall locos). 

Full credit to all those involved in both projects, I'd rather see those parts being put to use instead of as an ex-Barry loco whose restoration fails to gather momentum because it'd be just another member of the same class...

 

 

 

(Average age=3yrs)

Not really 3 years, most of these locos are original metal, indeed 3 halls have been used to make this picture possible.

its nice to see them recreated, but they are rebuilds, the Grange is even on original GWR era wheels.

Tornado still gets to hold the reigns on being mostly new metal, even if they recreation of a saint and grange is a fantastic site.

Its actually fun to go looking at motion and see what numbers you can spot.

GWR seemed pretty good at using standard parts between several classes.

I recommend taking a look as you walk around Didcot shed at the numbers you can spot, sometimes theres been 4 or 5 numbers over stamped or crossed out.

On 31/05/2024 at 22:14, phil-b259 said:

 

A very valid point which many in their haste to TOC bash completely ignore!

 

From the control logs I note whenever disruption occurs and busses are required its increasingly hard to get hold of any (and thats even in densely populated SE England with lots of bus companies / operations to ring round and ask .....)

Airlines are required to find hotels.

Taxis, Uber etc all exist.

Not everyone at Preston is going to Glasgow, some may just be going to Penrith, or even Lancaster… yet as Avanti tip’s out and theres no coordination at Preston, even Barrow trains could go with space.

Now it is 2024, its not about the few guys left to pick it all up at Preston, Twitter (X) can be rail industries friend and give advice beyond “dont travel”.. theres even scheduled buses to Carlisle from Preston. Couldnt Avanti have at least run a “lancaster pasdengers only” service ?.. as M&S says, every little helps.

The rail industry seem’s to start with the problem, and work forwards, where as most service orientated industries start with the customer and work backwards.. but the difference is service orientated industries risk losing customers, reputation and often have greater financial regulation binding them.

Whilst Avanti couldnt find social media, taxis, buses!coaches, Northern services or staff, they did seem to do well at finding law enforcement… no shortage of that.

Its worth noting TPE seemed to know where Carlisle and Preston was on the map throughout this, managing a shuttle operation..

avanti 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAR/2024-05-30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

vs tpe..

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAR/2024-05-30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP

Toc bashing, only when they havent exhausted every avenue trying… Seriously, Avanti even canceled their all the Blackpool North portions on Thursday.. whats that about ?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:BPN/2024-05-30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

Passengers are not cargo, they are real people, and very few are travelling for the fun of it, they all have reasons to travel and reasons to be there, empowering them to make decisions, like arranging an uber from Lancaster to Carlilse, and Avanti putting on a shuttle to Glasgow is better than a cold night on Preston hoping for the best, whilst the staff get paid for sitting in a warm backroom and the units on depot.

The engineers deserve the pat on the back for resolving the issue as quickly as they did, but the front end of the business speaks for itself in social media complaints.

By comparison I had a 20 hour delay from Berlin on a week last friday, saw several cancelations, ultimately routed home to London via Munich and Frankfurt.. yet hotel, meal and taxi vouchers were issued with 90 minutes, some without me even knowing and just emailed automatically, and 1 week later the airline has already paid compensation to my account too…

my  late arrival to London yesterday after my week up north, who knows how long that will take and what hoops i need to go through… even though the fare price paid werent that different, but the “business” service culture is completely different.

19 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

It was bought from the KWVR by my best mate John Boyes, who took it to the NYMR as described above.  He sold it to buy into Taw Valley.

 

John isn't very well at the moment but hopes to get fixed soon! 

 

Edit:  Annie was his too, he sold that to buy 62!

Hope john’s doing ok, I recall him at Bury.

Didnt mention 34027, it was an open wound it leaving Bury for the SVR.

Sad to note last year looking at 34027, that it has lost the plaque from its smoke deflector commerating those volunteers at Bury who put everything into its restoration.

I remember the day it arrived from Barry.

It arrived at Bury Transport Museum but only stayed a few months,iirc it came from the KWVR.

There was initially hope the ELR may have reopened in 1985, and access to the Bury station site for rides, but this never materialised, so It did brake van rides in the yard for a short period and moved on as there was nothing for it to do and not much space.

Several locos picked up 26D shed plates during that time, 945 Annie was another, which took them with it. 32 Gothenburg went on loan to KWVR during this time also.

Looks like these are starting to ship…

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

I was not getting at you, no apology necessary, I was generally concerned that Hornby had downgraded the motor.

Could they downgrade it further ?

4 hours ago, Northerngirl said:

I know Hornby aren't the greatest, but I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have noticed this is an issue in there testing, maybe it's a faulty batch of  bogies, has anyone tried taking one apart 

my Brighton Belle is no better, when they redid the couplings, so each coach picked up its own power for lighting, the drag meant the unit couldn't pull itself.
 

my Coronation cannot pull the coaches behind it due to wheel drag.

So I am unsurprised to read the 800 cannot pull a full length. 

I preempted this by buying two box sets and run them as a pair, skipping this pack completely, maybe thats what they wanted me to do, but back then a powered pack was nearly the price of the extra car pack today.

So 1T46 made it to Preston and terminated.

further southbounds a convoy of 1M87 (63L), 1M13 (56L) , 1M75 (78L), 1M88 (19L)  and 5H88 followed in sequence behind it.

Theres nothing else heading south of Carlilse on the wcml at all now between Lockerbie and Shap, with just 1M13 approaching Lockerbie.

northbound .. 1s66 and 1c72 (windermere ) between Preston and Shap.

All very empty.

Looking at RTT northbound today…

2x CS made it, 1 Avanti, 1 TPE, plus a freight and LSL ecs…

though rtt suggests the LSL and freights havent yet crossed the gap.

Southbound, theres a bit of a queue… 1M67 just made it across 67L…

not much made it south so far.. 1 freight, 2x sleepers…

1T46 looks like the first southbound regular passenger that will make it… currently 111L.

Single line operation is in use, I think quite a long stretch.

Absolute choas at Preston last night.

The entire length of p3/4 was packed with people, with large numbers of police for crowd control… At least 1000+ people, multiple trains had decamped passengers there with no obvious coordination… just lining and filling every bit of the platform, and these two are very long, and very deep platforms (from mail train days).

I guess Avanti was just turning up and tipping everyone out at Preston to fend for themselves.

I passed through 2130 last night on an Airport service and was amazed at how many people there was, hence looked up what had happened.

Its a pity there isnt an operator with cdl compliant stock and locos that could be called on at short notice to put on an extra working or two via the 2 alternative routes that exist, and is in the local area.

Indeed its a pity Avanti voyagers couldnt be routed via the s&c.

Are passengers being suggested to use Northern via Barrow ?