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On 26/04/2024 at 00:19, big jim said:

 

Former Scottish observation 101 saloon sat at the back of LSL sidings next to the horse landing 

 

Horse landing.

funny how names persist, when was the last time that saw a horse ?

ive neigh idea, but off the hoof i’d say  WW2 ?

2 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

Are we back to Deltic sized boxes again? How am I supposed to get them into the house without being noticed…

Just say your building an extension, bricks are heavy so your bringing them one at a time.

57 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

Yeah, it was more an observation on how everyone seems reluctant to delve deeper with the problems and why? I don't subscribe to Sam's trains or watch a lot of his stuff, but I do know he's not adverse to taking apart new models for major surgery like many youtubers. Yet this time he's not touched it, even to look at the mechanism. Like wise the other guy posted on here who again has tried to fix new models before. As someone who would return a new faulty loco out of principle, I wonder if the people who would usually have a dabble, have gone "nope, not touching a 230 pound loco under warranty"

I love ripping my locos apart, but only if they are in one piece when I start.

Replacing that coupling may require soldering of small gauge wires, or a specialist crimping tool… Do you really want to be bothered doing that when its under warranty, knowing your dismantling the chassis and tender chassis to do it. (Tbh I would probably replace the coupling entirely and fit a jst connector and shorter coupling bar).

I have 3 realtrack pacers awaiting couplings to be soldered, but I paid £75 each for them, not £230, because they were faulty, they are a pig of a model ive seen in a while, but at £75 i’ll risk it… i’d take a broken black 5 for £75 too and have a go, but not at £200.

29 minutes ago, 45568 said:

Coaches S3063-3070 from Doncaster batch 30169 were allocated from new to the Southern region, and received SR green post 1956. Often used on Southampton liner trains where 1st class accommodation was usual.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

And they all still exist….indeed there is only 1 bck missing from recreating the exact train.

FO + BCK = Intercity Swallow white roof stock….would be timely for a class 89 ?

FO is the gap in wcrc stock too..

RB… I guess were close to a REP now.

nice

Whats the story with 37108 ? I dont think its run this century and its had lots of body work attention over the years and clearly cared for, is this one coming back to life or just intended as  a static exhibit ?

11 hours ago, Gallows-Bait said:

 

In Hornby's specific case it is that financial cost that is one of the things significantly hurting them.

 

Between March 2022 and March 2023 Hornby's borrowings increased from £300k to £6.9m (Made up for £4.6m in "Asset Backed Lending", effective loans from banks, and £2m from Shareholder Loans (Phoenix Asset Management).  Their cash in the bank dropped from £4.1m down to £1.3m, so we know that what they've borrowed isn't sat in the bank.

 

In terms of how it was spent we can see £4.6m was spent on tooling, this is about £2.5m more than their historic levels of investment in tooling, so I think it's fair to say this extra £2.5m is likely to be largely the spending on TT120. Their actual funds in the bank for 2023 have gone down by closer to £9.5m, so that means £7m - effectively the entire borrowing - has gone elsewhere.  We know some of it will simply be paying the bills as the company has made a trading loss of about £2.7m (Ignoring the goodwill write down of £4m which implies one of the brands Hornby has purchased in the past is struggling badly but that money is already spent in the past).  The remaining biggest single movement is £4.8m of additional stock.

 

So it's not unreasonable to then assume that £4.8m out of the £6.7m of borrowing has been spent on that stock, which is about 72% of the loan.  Total interest paid in 2023 on those loans was £690k, so 72% of that is just under £500k.  So the cost of that warehouse even if there's no increased cost to the operation of the warehouse, that stock is costing half a million pounds a year sitting there doing nothing.  Add to the fact that that £4.8m could have actually earned 2-3% in interest and the actual cost of doing nothing is closer to £600-700k.  And that's just if they do nothing but put it on short term deposit in the bank.  More realistically they could have spent the money doing something that earns more income, after all it's the same amount of money as they've spent on tooling for the whole year.

 

 

As an aside, Tooling investment spending in 2021 and 2022 was also much higher than normal which probably indicates how much time and money has gone in to preparing the ground for TT120 as total tooling is around £6m higher than average across the last three years.

If you borrow money, the lender usually requires an asset to secure against.

May 2022

https://www.securetrustbank.com/our-news/business-finance/Hornby-on-the-right-track-with-12m-facility-from-secure-trust-bank
 

£6mn accounts, £6mn inventory.

Would it be reasonable to assume borrowing against stock would come with limits on how you can dispose of that stock (for example not dumping it in a firesale, or maintaining certain limits ?)

Making a whole rake of LNER and LMS Coronation toolings isnt going to be cheap…and I do wonder their longevity after a first run.. they are not exactly mark1’s used nationwide for 50 years and 30 liveries… my guess theres 7 figures invested in metal right there. The 2nd run LMS coaches are in that “instock” inventory not exactly selling out fast, its not for want of a loco either, as thats also in the current “instock” inventory for quite some time too.

my thoughts are they may want to invest in a laser printer like Rainbow Railways and start doing some specials as theres a few things on the Hornby website I dont forsee flying out of the door in the colours they are in.

i would love to see your layout someday !

Ropley October 30th 2010 130pm

A very nice choice, ive been wondering when someone would start making these, its a natural gap.

whilst ive seen them stored all over the place, ive never actually seen them in use!
 

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Fine in the MkIIs today; not sure what it would be like in height of summer with no air-con running ...

Could they not open the sidelights by the seat's in the mk1, wedge the mk2d doors open and let the fresh air flow through ?

so 4 coaches, 64 seats each, £65 a seat, £16k a day revenue.

I wonder how much Scotrail are making on that line each day ?

so whats up in scotland..

37676/685  94225 4951 99326 99329 21266 1840 13320 13306

47245 45212 35486 6000, 6022 6103 1860 3360

45407 35517 3350 5453 99312 

fomation looks like

Train A 6000 4951 6022 1860 6103 21266 3360 

by my reckoning there isnt enough to run a complaint train B…

Unless theres been another drop, the only compliant stock is what just went up.. 3350, 5453.

Perhaps there isnt a train B, but replacing the empty mk1  TSO with 5453, and a spare FO

whats odd is theres now 3 Buffets up there.. 1840, 1860 and 99318, but only 1 brake.. 21266… the other two are support coaches. Could the buffets be the cdl power source?

Whats the max length they could run with a 1 train operation on the current timetable ?

1 hour ago, Gallows-Bait said:

Based on the trends and analysis in the graphs there was indeed a peak in 2012 at around 28% of turnover, but I would suggest that the 2017 level was more typical of the prior decade or so rather than being understocked.  As such, stock appears to have ballooned out of control across 2018-2020.  The reduction in the 2021 and 2022 years Hornby have themselves called out the increased demand under lockdown as being able to be met due to their excess stock levels, so does make sense, but it does make the jump back up in 2023 even more noticeable as they clearly banked on a huge seasonal boost that never came, which is really a matter of failing to read all the economic signs.

 

I work in food wholesale and whilst 2023 was bad, we never expected it not to be as inflation has been an issue since at least the beginning of 2022. Not quite sure why Hornby were shocked by it all.

Just a guess ..

but lead times for orders can be years.

Back in 2020 A lot of people rushed to the hobby, it was probably the hobbys best year in sometime as everyone was locked up at home.

No one knew how covid was going to play out, were we going to be locked up for years ?

Track, scenics quickly disappeared, iirc Peco switched to PPE production.

I recall one retailer phoning me to ask if I needed anything as these items were going to be rationed for a while.

A larger than average order for these consumables maybe prudent, afterall track, scenics always sells, so is a safe bet, that it will sell sooner or later. Same thing to for Airfix kits, Humbrol paint etc.

I do think though the range of coaches available is enormous, and disjointed.

As it were by end of 2021 we were back on the streets again, and the models back in the box… and if the stock arrived 2022, its a headache.

I do think the wider hobby has an emerging problem, in that lockdown saw a huge number of new toolings announced, and last count was nearly 60 new locos in 00 alone announced but not yet arrived… once these start landing they are going to need enough buyers with deep pockets to buy them, at a time where interest rates, inflation have climbed… thats where the prepay and deposit buyers are more locked in to commit, and are may become selective around other models arriving as a result, especially if they start arriving enmasse.

Its just a guess but in my head it makes sense.

There seems to be a cycle, starting around 2012, where by they were over stocked, but with Sanda Kans demise they were understocked by 2017, and arguably catalyst to new entrants emerging,  and having their own “supplier woes”, but by 2022 they were back in an over stocked position again.

it takes years to develop a product, and 2027’s range is probably on the drawing board now, if the financial outlook is struggling, could we by 2027 be looking at being understocked once again ?

3 hours ago, ColinB said:

That still doesn't remove the issue that you cannot pickup current from those wheels. As for the rubber well you have your opinion, I have mine. You cannot get rid of the fact, rubber is an incredibly good insulator, design isn't going to get rid of that. Those wheel will only pick up current on the flanges.

How many tyres do you think a model needs ?

1980’s Lima picked up on just 2  wheels of 6 on each side of a 37/47 etc. Only later they added 2 more pickups, on one side only.. so it picked up on 4 wheels oneside, 2 wheels the other side….

its problem wasnt the 2 tyres, it was pickups.

A Black five has 8 wheels each side (inc tender and ponies)

A Black 5 in 1990 had 3 driving wheels for pickups on one side, and 2 tender wheels for the other…. The rest just looked nice and rolled.

A Black 5 in 2022 has 6 wheels each side to use for pickups.

Adding a tyre to one each side would magnitudes improve the traction.

However Hornby still only uses 6 of them for pickups.

unless your running an 0-2-0 I think adding a tyre isnt an issue, but making full use of all wheels for pickups would help much more.

As I said, the Germans can make it work..8 out of 8 powered, pickup, and just 2 tyres, it will crawl slower, out perform and pickup equally or better than any other Bo-Bo. Its also very balanced, so ensuring all the wheels are actually touching the rails.. might sound obvious but ive seen many oo models where they dont always make contact.

I actually have a Bachmann split chassis manor running with the tyred wheels off an old Mainline 43xx… it will outperform many rtr steam today, as it combines weight, flywheel and tyre… and still picks up of 6 wheels either side (made from twine off a wine bottle), as I added pickups to the tender, giving 6 asside.. its unstoppable, even replaced the nylon axles with plastic rod from B&Q… one thing it wont do is stop for want of juice.

25 minutes ago, ColinB said:

I think you will find that rubber will rot much quicker than anything else. It either rots or goes hard. Mazak rot is not age related it is more to do with the wrong chemical balance of the materials when it was make. I have ringfield motors ranging back to the 1980s, motors gears are perfect but on every one I have had to replace the traction tyres. Go look at your car tyres when they are over 10 years old, generally they wear out before they degrade but if you have a classic vehicle, it is one of the big issues.

I have hundreds of locos..

My european ones are fine… some are 40 years old. Sure some wear out, none are irreplaceable.

I assume your ringfield motors have never needed a carbon brush replacing ? 100 hours, built in obsolescence.

Dont judge the tech by British technology of the 1970’s, but equally theres no reason why tech can’t go on adfinitum with spares.

I suspect my KRModels fell will fall by the wayside before my Lima locos do… but I equally think my Roco/Trix/Sudexpress /Piko 21st century locos will outlive nearly everything OO made this century… its not just tyres, its the whole engineering quality… engineered right, inc, dodgy pickups is not an issue with traction tyres, because things like weight, balance and suspension are engineered into the design…. There really isnt many complaints about Hornbys class 50… yet for the first decade it too had tyres, until it was recognised it was so heavy it didnt need them.

16 minutes ago, ColinB said:

As to traction tyres I hate the things, they compromise conductivity with the rails and have built in obsolescence because rubber rots with age. 

Everything rots with age… the motor wears out, parts become brittle, mazak can rot, gear teeth wear out… thats not really an excuse.

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Indeed - but, unless one has the facilities to correct the balance, the flywheel is best left off.

 

CJI.

Definitely in the minority there… theres not many, non railroad models out there without a fly wheel in the last 20 years.

Fly wheel effect is minimal at slow speed, but a chunky flywheel will keep spinning the armature and the drive shaft after the power is cut.

The effect is the magnetic sticking of the commutator as they rotate is reduced at lower speeds as the flywheel lump with residual energy is still twisting the shaft still resisting the sticking motion...hence a smoother stop at a declining speed.

If you visibly want to see it.... stick on a whopper of a flywheel, run it fast, cut the power and see how far it travels… vs with smaller or none.. then you will see the difference.

In IT flywheels are becoming extremely popular for keeping the lights on… running your external power supply through a massive flywheel, length of a house, before converting it back to electricity means that if for what ever reason the external supply gets cut, that continuing revolution of the wheel keeps power to the facility giving time for the batteries/generators to kick in and return that momentum. This is especially popular in Africa regions where dual power resilience cannot be guaranteed… One facility I went to, used a Natural Gas Engine (Jenbacher J616) which was later derived for use in Class 70’s.. massive beast, with the flywheel consumed nearly 40metres of building… enough to keep all South Africas mobile phone network running. iirc they said if they lost power, the wheel would keep momentum for over an hour without any back up supply… noisy beast and watching this long shaft spin was eerily impressive.

In other uses, putting a flywheel on the end of a DC circuit is a way of avoiding burning out your DC powered equipment, if the va is too high instead of turning to heat and burning it, the flywheel takes the energy excess and turns it to kinetic energy, which inturn could charge a battery and reduce waste.

personally I think we should adopt European style traction tyres myself and stop all this pretence about weight… (but queue the complaints from those who have never seen a European traction tyred model and only remember Hornbys elastic bands from 1979)… you’d get a much stronger, smoother performance.

2 hours ago, Fireline said:

 

They are glued in, but using a very light glue, so they are easy to remove. This was apparently done to stop them detaching while they were in transit from the Far East.

Thats inline what I was also told.

of course what is light (lamp/lantern/etc) amounts of glue is subject to personal opinion.

But if youve got a faulty model, theres no point risking further damage, if its going back regardless.

Another vote for 37350 in 1980/90’s Green, with stratford cockney on the side.

flickr url, not mine.

45407 went to Scotland this week, taking its support coach, another mk2def, and two rather interesting renovated coaches, 5453 mk2b with cdl, the other a mk1.. 99318 (ex 4912) rebuilt with a buffet ( without any obvious cdl signs) 

Not mine flickr

Apparently the 37 is doing some work due to fire risk.

Does Chiltern trains still have a slam door mk3 set ?

(iirc they have several sliding door sets but wasnt their one slam door set still around or has it gone now ?)

this set was still listed in April 2022 on the part time spotter site, but its not been since.

AL05 11094 12012 12019 12027 12041 12115 12151 12026 

13 minutes ago, Markn said:

A new 66 just to pip Accurascale to the line. Feel like it's now or never for that.

Technically they've had since 2018 to take that 66 tooling on… yes 6 years already.

Ive let the rat out of the bag….

1 hour ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but I'm beginning to think that this whole SLW class 25 thing is an elaborate hoax, perpetuated by a secretive cabal of deep state actors, the illuminati  and the CIA.  Rumour has it that the so called launch event at Bentley was actually a film shot by Stanley Kubrick in a Hollywood sound stage, using AI generated customers. That is the only possible explanation for these delays.

From now on everytime I check this thread I'll be wearing a tin foil hat.

Definitely not a hoax…

ive got one !!!

On 24/04/2024 at 18:12, rodent279 said:

So, to be used to using slam door stock on your own, not as a child with an adult opening the doors for you, you'd have to be say about 10-12 in about 2005, which would put you early 30's now. To be used to using non-CDL fitted slam doors on the mainline,  you'd have to be about the same age in about 1992, so 44-ish now.

So there will be plenty of parents of say 7-15 year old now who will have little if any experience of slam door stock, and possibly a few grand parents as well. That's exactly what one of the prime markets of the Jacobite will be-parents of kids who are HP fans.

My little one is 13, when she was 11 she was using slam door stock, without my help.

weve got very short memories…

25th April 2021…3 years ago today I took this…

even in 2019 5 London Termini had regular cdl slam door services everyday…

If I goto Paddington tonight, I still can, six nights a week.

its not that long ago… mk3 cdl slam doors only retired during covid, even in 2021 thousands of passengers a day were using slam doors.