adb968008

1 hour ago, E100 said:

Hmmm -  I don't think that's a fair assumption as that was not the impression given on the stand by the designers I've spoken to at a three shows where these were on display in various forms. They seemed very aware of the royal train headcode for example but when asked gave the reason that they needed to check all the light channels worked as intended. That seems perfectly reasonable an answer to me. 

 

More generally, I would much prefer a manufacturer to show an EP but be honest about it by giving it a narrative of hey we are aware of problem xyz. EP's are never going to be perfect first time and that's ok. It's nice to see the design process and get a better idea of what each part is made out of. Gives a chance for some feedback. 

 

I find they do, indeed very often at shows they start by pointing out the issues, as they would otherwise hear it hundreds of times during the course of the day.

I recall the Dapol observation car EP being presented starting with “we know the window frame is modelled both open and closed at the same time on the centre door”.. honestly i’m not sure I would have spotted that initially….

Thing is that doesnt always make it 3rd hand back here, so people online suddenly “discover it”… thing is EPs are that… teasers to entertain but also reflect that things arent yet perfect.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

You completely ignore that those lights fitted to Bulleid designed locos are built into the loco - i.e. non removable.

 

Thats why they are small and the casings painted black - when turned off they are in effect invisible* 

 

The same was true with many of the lamps fitted to European or North American locos - they stayed firmly attached to the loco and never moved - as opposed to traditional British lamps which were expressly designed to be removed completely*

 

 

 

*A lamp doesn't need to be lit for the benefit of a trains headcode / classification it simply has to be present in a certain location

 

Your also ignoring that southern locos dont necessarily turn lamps/lights on at all

flickr url/not mine.

not sure why theres a spot hidden under the top of the smokebox cowling though.

10 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

This appears on another thread....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335356510561

 

Of course it would take more than 30 class 86s to get the stock figures down, but it may be an indication of the sort of thing that's needed.  This though is more likely to be a retailer who's in the same boat on a much smaller scale.

The worst part with those 86’s. Is none of them have cab doors handles as they omitted them in the tooling initially.

If that seller manages to palm that lot off, at £49 each, Hornby should offer him a job using this one as the trial period to get rid of…

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-departmental-exmk1-first-open-db977351-era-8-r40346

I wonder how many of these they have sold through the website ?

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/quarter-straight-r610

Going off the reviews, at least 13, last review being 18+ months ago.

For instance, Back in covid, in 2020, track suddenly became a rare commodity, and with no end in site reordering extra track supplies might seem prudent.. of course everyone went back to work… Maybe they have a lot of track, kits, scenics etc ? No point discounting the few aspects of modelling that are consumable and consistent… and if you only need an R610, the Hornby website is an expensive way to buy it.

Another possibility is if money was borrowed, usually theres collateral required, if thats the stock, then selling it off cheap maybe restricted.

Ive been close to HKG now for 3 decades.

its in a cycle right now that isnt too different to the Uk, a high inflation malaise siphoning off dwindling recent past gains.

back in the 90’s it was largely depressed as people and business exited to the doom of 1997, whilst the UK govt spent millions dressing it up for the Chinese.

By the 2000s it was coming back, the shabby British backstreets behind the Peninsula were becoming trendy designer shops, the fake watches of Middle road were becoming genuine as Chinese and American billions was invested in making it an Asia Manufacturing, Tech and Financial hub.

Through the 2010’s Hong Kong has prospered as a safe place to trade, do business, vacation (Macau is Vegas in Asia now, Disneyland etc).

But roll on Covid & Politics… The Chinese crackdown shattered the dream, Covid shattered the tourism. The Americans wobbled, the post 1997 generation are leaving town. Its depressed, business is still good, lifestyle is better than the UK, taxes are lower but its not what it was. 
Similarly over the border the Chinese property boom, driven by 20 years wealth creation has spectacularly exploded, and continues to eat itself. Whilst at the moment its confined and the amazing wealth creation that China has seen masks a property crash that would destroy a  European market, people are no longer so sure… For the first time in a generation the belief in perpetual growth in lifestyle and wealth is less certain.

People dont know whats coming next, thats not an environment to invest in hence the feet hovering over the brakes which is very different to the pedal to the metal growth thats been the last 20 years. The only thing hiding it is the sheer volume of trade that exceeds ours, but the cream has gone off the top, will the glass empty, stay put or refill.

7 minutes ago, rovex said:

 

Does this one come with firebox flicker as well?

And moving footplate crew…

4 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

This was one of the Hornby CEO's stated objectives in one of their releases a few months ago. He said they were going to try reducing inventory while also not undercutting their pricing. I've seen the inventory reductions be handled in the following ways over the last 6 months or so.

1) Double points offerings- There have been multiple 2x points offerings over the last 6 months. The most recent was one last month.

2) Free gifts- Earlier this year, Hornby ran a campaign that featured a free small locomotive. They have done other promotions, like offering a free mug with a purchase. This has also extended to their international brands (Jouef, Rivarossi, Electrotren), which offered a free HO wagon or a free building depending on how much was spent. Arnold was also offering promotions for free N Scale rolling stock. 

3) Seasonal sales- If memory serves, they ran a New Years sale and a Spring sale. These were done on Hornby, Hornby USA, Scalextric, Corgi, Arnold, etc. 

4) Clearance- These have also been done by Hornby, Hornby USA, Scalextric, Corgi, Arnold, etc. 

5) Bringing in new retail partners- Restoring Rails of Sheffield was a major win for the company. 

 

I think one reason that progress towards inventory reduction did not progress further, might have to do with the shipping delays. They mention a large shipment being delayed in China due to the mideast conflict. I assume they take delivery in China and arrange for shipping themselves. That large shipment could be worth as much as several million pounds. If the inventory is stuck in China or in transit, that might explain the persistence of high inventory. I'd defer to @Gallows-Bait on UK accounting rules, though! 

 

but how do you sustain selling last years fashion accessories ?

they cleared c10%-15% of it in year 1….

fashion accessories only get more out of date the further from release they were.

no one is consuming LNER mk3’s… once bought they are for a lifetime, and its now 2 full years since EMR gave them up.

without spending money on more power cars, and with risk of a competitor emerging on something which is a fading memory I dont see that as being easy… theres over 400 rtr rolling stock sku items available now from Hornby… only 100 of them are wagons. Theres a lot more stories like that in the range.. R3171 dates back almost a decade now.

Welcome to the forum, what an interesting first post.

how do you offload £9mn of stock (at Trade price, not rrp) without a fire sale ?

23 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

C'mon, there is no proof that they were going to release it like that, they just loaded the test sample up, and to test all the light points would have made sense ...

We’ll never know, because 20 pages or so back, everyone spoke up.

When I asked, I was told its easier to fit them at the factory, and let modellers remove them, than not fit them and see the delicate light tracks get broken by less experienced modellers… some who may not want to bother fitting the lamp irons.

They did also say they wanted to glue the default ones in, as the factory was worried they would come loose in transit.

I saw logic in it, but I agree Royal Train was never going to fly, and I didnt agree with gluing it in.. but the Sams Trains ones do look securely fitted… 

Dont forget this is version 3…. Version 1 was the W1 with non working lamps fitted, no one complained, Version 2 was 6202 with working lamps… there was some grumblings (especially the red lights).., now version 3 these are configurable…

I’m sure competitors are watching this, and now the genie is out of the bottle it will only get better…

its not only model railways experimenting..

This isnt the only one with red leds, it has under frame “ditch” lights too.

:-)

I suspect whats polarising here is that its not yet perfected, but its on a premium priced model, that is very popular and has just had a big upgrade on its predecessor.

The diesel side has a similar conundrum with diesel smoke thats basically a steam locomotive drain cock release coming out of the roof.

47 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

What I still fail to understand is, if Hornby's design team are as knowledgeable as we have been assured, why ANYONE thought that a fixed Royal Train headcode could possibly be acceptable. It should NOT need the members of this forum to point this out.

 

There was a time when forum members commented on the minutae of detail on new models; now, it seems, companies are putting out poorly researched EPs, relying on potential customers to identify the most basic of errors.

 

CJI.

How many models of diesels have drivers cab lights turned on when running forwards?

now in the real world, how often do you see a driver with his cab lights on at night when moving ?

Its becoming normalised for steam locos to have firebox door glows always on…

yet how often was a loco running with the firebox doors always open ?

Sometimes what modellers like, doesnt always map to reality.

Its also worth considering how the factory translates it…. Afterall working headlamps on steam locomotive models has been the norm in HO for nigh on 50 years… its 00 thats only just now catching up…

Thats why EPs exist.. to see what works and what doesnt.

if this was a railroad model, I bet the kids would love it to bits with working lights.

We have a model where you can fit working lights to suit. I agree its not perfect, but its taken 50 years for Britain to reach HO standards…  next is to improve it..

I personally would like the return of openable smokebox doors, with realistic innards, and synchronised wheelslip to wheelslip sound… Hornby is getting closer to that too on the P2.

One thing is for sure.. a history page has turned and the tech should only get better herein.

1 hour ago, Islesy said:

The last couple of pages of this thread have become a perfect example of "tell me you're a railway modeller, without telling me you're a railway modeller" 😆

Language evolves, it's why we don't speak Latin, Norse or Anglo-Saxon any more. When we're all departed from this mortal coil, language will evolve again, and again.

 

All this arising from us reminding you lads that, if you need support with your Accurascale products, we're easily contactable and ready to help you out to the best of our abilities.

 

Now, back to matters of the GWR maybe 😂

its a good job Americanisation of english doesnt lead to Americanisation of models….

Its definitely Great Western… it says so.

It even runs close to Lancaster….

ok i admit it was a bit of a Hail Mary on that one… back to the Dug out and await the fireside chat, to course correct and get back to the Landing zone for those warm and fuzzies.
 

Still its better than East end… “Bung em a monkey”.. whats that all about.

Ok no more Fud, I surrender.

2 hours ago, MoonM said:

I personally don't quite understand why companies like Hornby and Heljan don't take feedback on these forum pages as constructively as (say) Accurascale seem to do. Yes, the tone of feedback from some of us on these threads can sometimes leave something to be desired, however sharing the development life-cycle over forums such as this is free r&d for companies such as accurascale. Having us comment on inaccuracies before production is free advice and Accurascale milk us dry for this free r&d. Whereas companies such as Heljan and Hornby tend to ignore this free feedback - perhaps a little too proud or stubborn to take it?! 

Oh they definitely do.

they just dont openly recognise it.

As an example It was recognised at EP stage that having royal train configuration of headlamps on the Black 5 wouldnt fly.

I think theyve listened a lot on the Black 5, but equally it depends where the model is in the production cycle as to how much they can modify. Visiting the exhibitions the Hornby team are very open to feedback and sharing what theyve changed and what they are planning.
 

Heljan, Bachmann etc are all very approachable and personable at the shows… their passions are clear, but they arent always at liberty to speak freely online. I do urge visiting them, talking to them at shows etc you learn much more and do listen to feedback.
 

I try to write my opinions and suggestions here knowing at shows they wont remember it all and it is nice to see they do improve models from collective opinions like forums to improve models, which is why I always suggest putting in constructive criticism here at EP stage… they might not act on it. but they see it… when they see a consensus / large feedback it adds weight to acting on it.

At days end, no one wants a bad model, especially not someone spending two-five years of their life designing it.
 

Thats why i’m waiting on 45157, those EP wheels are very black, cast and nothing like their predecessors, which I think is something they took feedback from on here too.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

(1) A Mk2D doesn't contain a motor which can wear out, gears which can split pickups that can break nor are people likely to want to fit it with DCC - a loco the other hand has a lot of things which can go wrong mechanically plus a large chunk of the market will want DCC capability.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

(2) Being a sound choice in terms of prototype to model is NOT the same thing as direct duplication. Moreover RTR manufacturers don't usually use availability on the second hand market - particularly when the items are locos which are not DCC ready and are no longer supported by their manufacturer.

https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/category/5-branchline-split-chassis/lord-nelson
 

The power train is all there… I believe the last ones took a very long time to sell out, it hung a while, which was an omen.

One thing you cant say is Bachmann dont support their customer, they are one of the best.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

(3) In terms of viability though I do recognise that he LN was a small in number and although seen as some by the pinnacle of Maunsells career design wise is never going to have as many buyers as other more numerous classes like the Schools or Arthurs. That said the LNER P2 class (to give but one example) had even fewer members yet seems to have sold well so there is some logic in Hornbys decision to go for a LN 

Agreed. The GWR saint is also a good potential, and was only just newly built in close proximity, and is one thats never been done before… it may have a longer term fit given its peak popularity, and next ten years travelling the Uk… especially as they had the chassis and tender already.

its just one example, the LN wasn't desparate to be done, indeed the only one left had already stopped running and who knows when it will move again… You cant ignore preserved steam inspires model railway spend… the LSWR T3 is a matter of time before it emerges in 00. Indeed they could have slapped an original Scot on the rebuilt chassis and runaway with that for a fraction of the cost if the decision was about eliminating Bachmann choices.

imo the LN wasn't a best choice, i’m not convinced redoing the Princess, Coronation was either.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

(4) The issue with the Bulleid brakes has been explained before and has nothing to do with their popularity with modellers and everything to do with a Hornby cock up! As is the norm for Southern railway stock these brake coaches were for the most part ALL formed into a 3 car set* of identical Bullied vehicles (BTK - CK-BTK) NOT as individual coaches! The problem therefore is simply that Hornby under ordered the CK coach which goes in the middle - without which these brake coaches are useless to modellers.

 

And next time they propose to run them at £50/60 whatever, everyone will default to.. “but last time they were £17” and still around.

it taints its image… plus people will suck up the CKs.. thus risking a repeat… or if they dont match… bargains.

they created a no win situation

19 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

Sadly the 59ft Corridor Brakes were only ever used in 3-sets with the other 59ft coaches and never used as loose stock, afaik (i'd have to check my Southern Bulleid book to be absolutely sure). I'd be up for buying a couple at £17.99, but only if I could guarantee getting a 59ft composite to go with them, and in the correct livery too. The Southern Railway and BR Southern were quite strict about keeping is coaching stock in sets. If one coach had a defect, then the whole set was pulled. And they would go to works to be repainted as a set too..... Just one of the quirks of the Southern which makes them stand out from the rest (apart from the affection for live rail....)

Thanks never thought of that…

so if they made more comps… the problem would be paint matching the new run to the existing ones on retailer shelves.

and as its on the retailers shelves and not their own, I guess it makes it not their problem.

30 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Oh come on - how can Hornbys super detailed LN be said to be 'duplicating' an the ancient split chassis Bachmann design which hasn't been available for years....

It might be ancient, its as old as the Hornby mk2D… didnt stop Bachmann making it until 2008.

Thing is theres oodles around, cheap as chips.

Just because it can be made, doesnt make it a sound choice… they all ended up in bargain bins not long after Hornby brought them out… the Bulleid shorts brought with them still are…

£17.99.. and 6 different numbers to pick from..

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/61992/R4884B-WSL-Hornby-SR-Bulleid-59ft-Corridor-Brake-3rd-Coach-2861

odd considering Southerns prolific use of Brakes, you’d think these would be gone first.

bottom line it didnt win the popularity contest… unlike say the original Bulleid MN, which has done very well.

I could have mentioned the 9f in that lot, the Bachmann one is very good, but arguably the Hornby one had really had its day so it was more of an opex than a capex replacement, even if it was entirely new… 9f has always been a Hornby staple.. fortunately they did a fantastic job, and its one that has longevity to it, than say the W1 imo which is really freak niche once in a decade.

My gut feel is a new 08, HST, 153 and 155 are coming.

As for the 67 being basic, I think the real thing is too… its a fairly blunt instrument, not a lot of features to it. I can’t see a new one coming, its over cooked and uninteresting.

The 91 was a disappointment… set modellers back a decade or two before we see a good one.

The 755 is a rabbit hole too, sadly Hornby only seems to do one post BR unit every decade.

in short Hornbys pushed out of modern image imo, but its not as if they didnt had their chances they were too busy duplicating Terriers, 4-4-2Ts, class 71’s, LN’s, 61xxs and one hit wonders like W1, Turbomotive and doing duplicate P2’s etc.. which has to be a strategy decision not coincidence.  I would hope these are fully amortised as I dont see an exciting future for them.

20 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

I can't help wondering if Bachmann's concentration on diesels in OO is wise. Check out Rails of Sheffield's list of bargains (across all manufacturers): 9 steam locos, over 100 diesels.

There are, however, a number of recent N gauge steam locos in the bargain bins — notably the EFE J94 where all but the BR versions are half price (the BR versions are 20% off).

Similar prices are on offer at other retailers. Many more than a year ago, it seems.

Show me the bargains, theres a whole thread for it.

i’m always up for a bargain, but a stock x% discount is nothing more than a dfs sale bargain.

Theres not much of anything out there being cleared, just standard retail discounts with the usual discount flag next to it.

maybe confusing a sale, with a discount.

On 18/04/2024 at 13:21, Austin Allegro said:

Just picked mine up from Invicta in Sidcup - I know it was cheaper elswhere but there's nothing better than supporting your local shop and being able to drool over a load of stock in real life. 🤤

 

One seemingly odd "quirk" of it is that the  driving carriage as removeable couplers whereas the non-driving one doesn't, it just has the original Lima large tension lock coupler, meaning I've no other choice but to have a tension lock coupling between carriages making it look well out of place with the rest of the layout.

 

What on earth were Hornby thinking doing that???

 

They updated the motor bogie to match the upgraded motor, so they added nem at the same time.

The rest of it looks unchanged since Lima.

its not hard to cut off the big loops and replace with say a Roco 40344 NEM bracket/pocket and spring assembly mounted under the body.

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Accessories/Accessories/Roco-40344/gb/modell_22608.html

Highland clearance…

37409 and the mk3 dbso set is going home.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U11109/2024-04-23/detailed

You have to wonder what the point of it going in the first place was really all about.

Doesnt get back to Crewe until 10pm, so a chance for Northern enthusiasts to get their cameras out.

On 21/04/2024 at 18:15, 18B said:

Hi, 

 

Putting rule 1 aside, I'm looking to run a domino blind fitted Class 47 on some unfitted 16 ton mineral wagons. Just wondered by what sort of year this had become rare to see. Obviously such a combination was already much less common than a two tone green 47 on unfitted wagons. 

 

TIA   

I remember unfitted freights in the 1980’s, but not with green diesels, all blue then.

I used to be surprised at oddities such as freights with multiple brake vans at the rear, sometimes 6 or more, though the guard was only in one of them… though my memory is 25 and 40’s on such work, and one occasion a 56… but I guess  nothing stopped a 47.

Often you see in the 60’s era videos, the driver opens and closes the firebox door in sync with the fireman's rhythm for shovelling coal in, thus keeping the heat from the fire in, and the airflow restricted to a minimum whilst moving. Never saw a film of them getting out of sync and coal landing on the footplate floor but i’m sure it must have happened.

7 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

A margin drop despite 18% increase in direct to consumer sales would be worrying.

The debt pile increase maybe coming at much higher interest rates than they have been paying before.

It almost feels like a credit card holder getting into too much debt… 25% of the annual revenue.

That despite being told the debt pile last year was due to too much over stocking last year and would reduce this…

Quote

The significant increase in gross debt from £0.3 million to £6.9 million was in part due to an over-commitment to stock derived from an expectation that the top line revenue growth trajectory would have continued
to follow that of recent years.

(Page 3 2023 annual report)

and only finding 

Quote

Stock has reduced by 12%, or £3 million

Every £1 of stock reduction has increased debt by c£3, i’d be expecting stock reductions to be improving the financial health unless theres some very big investments going on… but if it is, its a secret, and brave in this climate.

I think we are to be prepared for a bad end of year report, even if its inline with their expectations.

And the bright side…

Quote

identification of new customers, opening up of new territories and launch of new product ranges.
 

someone highlighted Airfix in a new US retailer which is a positive.

New territories ? Theyve major Western markets covered (i think too much covered for the business they are doing in some regions), so I watch with interest.

new product ranges ?… weve waited a year for the “capsule range” which hasnt yet broken cover, the 2024 announcements havent hit wide acclaim either… there has been suggestions of more spread out…

I do wonder how much the debt is going to dictate the decisons moving forwards….

the caution I do have is statements like this…

Quote

Red Sea delivery delays and the resultant movement of some high value containers into April instead of March.

build up of expectations that bad news in the final quarter will lead to expectations of rebounds next quarter…. 1 month in, end of the traditional modelling season and start of vacation season, two bank holidays in May, half term holidays etc….

So far weve only got a Black 5 to show for the jam expected this quarter…

My fear is Hornby is becoming more like Lima by the day.

out dated, over priced, out competed.

Simons comment is a symbolic rock and hard place.

Personally I think reinventing the business maybe in order… is it time to stop manufacturing some lines and focus on marketing and retailing using franchise and co-selling with partners, leveraging the brand name and market place ?

45407 is possibly going to join 45212 on thursday.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U11065/2024-04-25/detailed

looks like a second rake.

Meanwhile 44871 looks to be staying in the south, whilst 34067 does Northern belle.

4 train operation with 4 locos…, no spare locos, what could possibly go wrong ?

8 hours ago, david.hill64 said:

 

 

If it was your child, killed while standing on a platform and hit by the uncontrolled opening of a hinged door, would you consider the £10 a useless safety initiative?

 

If it were my child, they would be standing behind the yellow line like me… obeying the army of staff who tell bystanders, often quite forcefully, to be rightly standing behind that yellow line.

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

I wonder if the ORR are actually aware of how they are running the present Jacobite? One one think so, but are they?

I cant imagine them, and their lawyers not watching every move.

whats more theres a volunteeer army just waiting to tell tale on every move my wcrc too.

I reckon its not are they aware, but how much info can they handle, pretty soon i’m expecting a dedicated snitch hotline for wcrc related incidents to be set up.

“Hello welcome to the ORR hotline, if your call is in relation to wcrc, press 9, if its a major emergency not involving wcrc please hold for other options….”