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Another vote for 37350 in 1980/90’s Green, with stratford cockney on the side.

flickr url, not mine.

45407 went to Scotland this week, taking its support coach, another mk2def, and two rather interesting renovated coaches, 5453 mk2b with cdl, the other a mk1.. 99318 (ex 4912) rebuilt with a buffet ( without any obvious cdl signs) 

Not mine flickr

Apparently the 37 is doing some work due to fire risk.

Does Chiltern trains still have a slam door mk3 set ?

(iirc they have several sliding door sets but wasnt their one slam door set still around or has it gone now ?)

this set was still listed in April 2022 on the part time spotter site, but its not been since.

AL05 11094 12012 12019 12027 12041 12115 12151 12026 

13 minutes ago, Markn said:

A new 66 just to pip Accurascale to the line. Feel like it's now or never for that.

Technically they've had since 2018 to take that 66 tooling on… yes 6 years already.

Ive let the rat out of the bag….

1 hour ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but I'm beginning to think that this whole SLW class 25 thing is an elaborate hoax, perpetuated by a secretive cabal of deep state actors, the illuminati  and the CIA.  Rumour has it that the so called launch event at Bentley was actually a film shot by Stanley Kubrick in a Hollywood sound stage, using AI generated customers. That is the only possible explanation for these delays.

From now on everytime I check this thread I'll be wearing a tin foil hat.

Definitely not a hoax…

ive got one !!!

On 24/04/2024 at 18:12, rodent279 said:

So, to be used to using slam door stock on your own, not as a child with an adult opening the doors for you, you'd have to be say about 10-12 in about 2005, which would put you early 30's now. To be used to using non-CDL fitted slam doors on the mainline,  you'd have to be about the same age in about 1992, so 44-ish now.

So there will be plenty of parents of say 7-15 year old now who will have little if any experience of slam door stock, and possibly a few grand parents as well. That's exactly what one of the prime markets of the Jacobite will be-parents of kids who are HP fans.

My little one is 13, when she was 11 she was using slam door stock, without my help.

weve got very short memories…

25th April 2021…3 years ago today I took this…

even in 2019 5 London Termini had regular cdl slam door services everyday…

If I goto Paddington tonight, I still can, six nights a week.

its not that long ago… mk3 cdl slam doors only retired during covid, even in 2021 thousands of passengers a day were using slam doors.

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Of course there's nothing behind it.

We better get used to it, there's a general Election coming.

If only there was a way of turning all the B/S into money..... 🤣

 

Set up an election leaflet printing & media company.

25 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Yes and no. As @MidlandRedsaid, if that includes stock that is in transit, that may be mostly sold already, but still could show as stock held until it is dispatched to the buyer / retailer and the invoices paid. 
 

Roy

In which case Q1 should be good.

Black 5’s all round.

Given the mass waste and premature scrapping of stock, together with the long term storage of nearly new to mid life stock…

I can’t imagine any leasing company being prepared to cut any one any favours on new build.

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Could this be construed as a political remark I wonder or does that only come into play when we get round to the choice of livery?  (sorry no emojis but I'm sure you'll treat it in tthe spirit in which it was meant)

Looking at a 700..

the doors are blue, the ends are yellow, but in the main body it appears undecided.

if you look inside, invariably its a rotten borough, but if you do get a seat you hold onto it for dear life.

Like politics getting on the ride is easy enough, you just don't know where your going or when your going to get off.

Just imagine Abba arriving in London today and writing a song about Thameslink, instead of Waterloo…

My, my
At Farringdon, Desiro did surrender
Oh, yeah
And I have met my destiny in quite a similar way

Thameslink times on the shelf
Is always repeating itself

Thameslink
I was defeated, you won the war
Thameslink
Promise to dump me on the floor.

Thameslink
Couldn't escape if I wanted to
Thameslink
Knowing my fate is to be with you
Thaaaaaaameslinkkkk
Finally facing my journeys end

My, my
I tried to hold you back, but you were stronger
Oh, yeah
And now it seems my only chance is giving up the fight

And how could I ever refuse
I feel like I lose when I win

Thameslink

…

if were being apolitical… I guess Black is the best paint job… I like this myself..

new BR..

(Flickr url ).

Rush Rail… even the name works.

Anything that puts a new livery onto Thameslinks 700’s is good by me.

4 hours ago, Gallows-Bait said:

 

This is something that as a recent newcomer to the hobby I've been frustrated by, and not just with Hornby.  When I decided to enter the hobby I initially thought to do a modern container freight layout and hoped to start out in TT120, but the length of time to have to wait before getting to the era of locomotives I was interested in was offputting.  Some of them were at least available for pre-order, but there was almost no suitable rolling stock to even pre-order alongside it.  This does somewhat seem to have been addressed in the April announcements, but even these will not be available until around 6 months after the locomotives become available and a full year after I made the decision to build a model railway.  Perhaps I'm in the minority as I wasn't interested in the various pacific steam train sets and they do seem to be continuing to sell strongly, but I'm willing to suggest people like me wanting to model what is the biggest single form of freight on the modern railway cannot be that uncommon.  Hornby has missed out anything modern from TT120 for the best part of 2 years, with the HST now the only real choice (Yes I know there's the 08, but I would be reluctant to pay what is almost the same price as any other loco for a smaller model with no lights and only a 6-pin DCC socket (for which no Hornby decoder is yet available) and that desperately needs a stay alive over points.

 

In the end I've chosen to go into N gauge rather than wait, but even here you can see manufacturers like Bachmann/Farish falling prey to the same issues.  It seemed easy enough with so many modern liveried freight haulier locos, but this has meant second hand container wagons that are available for at best only a fraction under their original retail prices, which indicates there simply aren't enough of them about.  I did subsquently discover Revolution's container wagons which look excellent and are actually cheaper new than the Farish ones are second hand, but this shouldn't be something that it needs a small entrant to fill the gap for, it's literally modelling one of the most common sights on the railway in the present day.

 

Also within N gauge, Rapido scored (from what I can see online and in forums), a big win with their decision to release Conflat P wagons alongside the Class 28 so that people could actually model the Condor freight trains of the past (QA issues aside, which it appears Rapido also dealt with in a prompt manner).  Yet even here the brake van that would have been part of this prototypical train is the Stove R, for which the only current offering is via the N Gauge Society (fair play to them, I have one now and it is lovely).

 

As a newcomer, both these poor ranging decisions by the perennial manufacturers and the limited runs of smaller pre-order focused entrants does make it much harder to get into the hobby when you realise that modelling even half of what you see on the railways around you in real life means months of scouring ebay for second hand products or waiting six months to a year for a pre-order.

Back in the early days of the TT thread I suggested Hornby would be better to stick to a theme, grow it and be good at it, instead of throwing seeds in the air and see what grows.

That thread got quite hostile to that idea, as everyone wanted their own preference over anyone elses.

That said, a year in, the LNER/ER theme seems to be gaining ground, as does the 1980’s theme.

The problem for launching a new mass market scale, is the subject matter is just way too big for anyone manufacturer. Everyone else was scared away.

So its a long hard decade for Hornby to grow it.

Trouble is on Hornbys current financial trajectory will they run out of runway before hand ?

The other risk is Hornby could do all the hard work, but pay the price of being first, if the others do to TT what they did to OO… because again, it could become too big for one to handle alone, and new comers will target upgrades of mass market prototypes, not the left over dregs.

it was never truly clear to me whom the TT target was, as what they said and what they did, didn't seem to match. A few years in, it feels like the TT customer is the same as a potential N or OO customer, thus cannibalising an existing market, rather than growing it.

To me growth in the hobby is by stretching the eras… post Privatisation and pre1923, as these are less catered for… Geographically the UK is covered, as is 1923-1994 saturated with not much room to grow.
Beyond that, start knocking on doors and convince Airplane enthusiasts, Military modellers and computer gamers to switch hobby…. Thats a hard ask imo… would you switch from Railways to Military modelling ?.. Steampunk gave us an idea how hard that is.

My personal feeling is Hornby needs to use its IP assets more, and its capex on tooling less… its strength isnt in super detail, but its name, yet it doesnt seem to play it as strongly as it could… whats more a big gap in that market has just been created and I dont even think theyve seen it.

12 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I dont like to labour a point but the front 'removeable' lamps are obviously not easy to remove - see Youtube -  whilst the tender light is fixed and no spare iron is supplied to fill the gap after it is 'Xuroned'. On DC you'll need to address 'light bleed' with the lamps removed, on DCC hopefully you can just turn the LED's off. The tender-loco gap is fixed and unnecessarily wide - the cam should allow for close coupling but clearly that potential has not been taken advantage of. Worse, the electrical connection appears fragile, again see YouTube. 

 

The frustration is that when Hornby get it right it can be so good - 2Mt is lovely, so lovely I bought a second. 

 

On the tender I do know the led board for the lamp is jst’d into the circuit board in the tender.

just unplug it, or remove it completely.

The tender lamp is like the smokebox lamp.. a light track out of the back, not underneath..so a good push from inside the tender should move it.

(sorry never thought to mention this earlier but I handled one of these at Warley looking at that).

My plan was to use an expo nut spinner to push it with as it locks the light track inside the tube and reduces chance of it breaking sideways as I push it.

I did suggest to Hornby that removing them from inside/underneath would be less risky than pulling them (ive learned that the hard way with such things in the past), no idea if that sunk in, but Sams videos he was trying to pull it, which I wouldn't do myself.

7 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Watch Sam's review, he found them to be glued in.

It wasnt confirmed. 
 

agreed if it is, its unfortunate.

I do know at Warley they suggested to me they might be.

But we need confirmation on that…

Its not neccessarily a killer blow, but a lesson learned if it is. 
it wont stop me having a go, Chinese glue isnt always what its cracked up to be.

But conceptually that doesnt mean the product should be dead and buried in the future.

11 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Reconfigurable lamps on the W1 and Turbomotive are less important because, except when running light, they seldom carried anything other than Class 1.

 

Black Fives worked virtually anything, so the lights need to be frequently and therefore easily, moveable by the user.

 

The last thing we need is having Rule One imposed on those of us who care about prototypical operation.

 

John

Exactly…

ive repeatedly said…

the lamps are removable…you can set them up however you want, including all or none at all.

The rest and irons, are in the parts bag, along side the vac hose, shank, brakegear, snowplough….

if you don't like it, just remove them all and put lamp-irons in.

were supposed to be railway modellers, is fitting a lamp/iron  into a hole designed for it suddenly beyond us ?

i used to make lamp irons out of matchstick shavings 30 years ago when lamp irons werent even available, let alone lamps.

8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

In other words European prototypes with built in lamps that do not move / disappear like most British locos.

i Think those models could be interpreted as anything !

11 minutes ago, maico said:

 

I posted a photo of a loco made for the British market with lights more than 80 years ago not 50 as you said.

 

Here is the Marklin 1938 British catalogue

 

 

Was that in expectation of a Germanic conquest of the UK being successful ?

That LNER pacific looks more like a Polish Pm36, the Streamlined LMS one like an SNCB Type 12.
 

odd observeration, but those R numbers  never aged well..

R742 became a white ferry van

R749 is a yellow crane

but the rest…

R765 became the red Triang hall, with number 25555

R842 is a red black 5…

R849 became a Thomas set

R865 stayed as a freight set, becoming a GWR freight set.

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Ah - that's where we differ; for me, a loco is for life, not just my attention-span.

 

Unfortunately for my offspring, a mammoth task awaits on my demise - disposing of a lifetime's collection of model railway stock, and a mammoth library of railway books.

 

I will not, from wherever I find myself, blame them for dumping the lot on dealers and realising only a tiny fraction of their true resale value.

 

My model purchases must provide value for money IN MY LIFETIME - I will not see any personal financial return!

 

CJI.

Truth be known, you and me both, and probably a whole lot more of us on this forum are in the same boat there.

17 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Aprototypical - not prototypical.

 

Should the model have no lamps - YES.

 

Will the novelty factor outweigh the negative polarising effect - I sincerely doubt it.

 

CJI.

I might be wrong, but I reckon Hornby are munching extra popcorn and having a good laugh at this thread, a Friday lunchtime sweepstakes up for grabs betting on which of us makes the most outlandish statement.

For me, this initial model has the bling thing not right. I’m hoping coupling and warping isnt a wider issue. The rest of it looks bob on.

My concern holding me back is the trend of the initial 10% off becoming a 25% off in 6-8 weeks… a £229 model being £210 suddenly being £170.. and then me painting another £50 off its resale some day means I be a £90 mug loser today, but waiting 6-8 weeks and losing only £50 isnt so bad, considering It maybe years before I ever get bored of it and consolidate that loss… I still have my 5241 from 1993… paid £30 for that and bought a £30 loco drive chassis for it 10 years ago… and fitted my own lamp irons to it, made from match stick shavings… if I ever sold it I bet I might get my original £30 back.

15 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Because they are aprototypical, and I shouldn't have too.

 

That's enough for me not to purchase several and to, reluctantly, proceed with my far more labour-intensive alternative Black Five projects.

 

Keep it simple - but well-detailed, I say!

 

CJI.

Whats aprototypical….?

A Black 5 probably carried every possible configuration possible of  [choose word of choice] (lamp/light/lantern/candle/flame/inflammable device).

No one would ever agree which one it should come out of the factory with, and until today the choice was none anyway.

I guess the real question is… should they have made the model with no lamps fitted, and left the modeller to do it themselves…

We all know the majority would never open the parts bag, so most models with lamps would be wasted.

But will it hurt sales ?

Its possible lamp objections might hurt retailer sales, but equally this polarising gizmo might be attracting customers into shops to look at it… But Hornbys customer is the retailer, and I bet right now they probably want a few to show those drawn in…

if the model has other issues, being suggested, thats a different story.

25 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

'Moan' is used to often these days as a pejorative. It isnt unreasonable for us, as modellers and prospective purchasers of this new version of the Black 5 to express our disappointment at how it has been spoilt by a couple of very minor changes that have no place on a well researched scale model (remember it says in the small print 'this is not a toy'!). 

 

I've voted with my wallet on this one and cancelled my pre order (which I deliberately made with a large box shifter so as not to leave a smaller dealer stuck with stock as I could see the way the model was evolving) .

 

As @cctransuk said earlier the working lamps would be welcome if they were properly developed and didnt compromise the core product. As they are at the moment they would be much better deployed on a Railroad Model - Tornado perhaps? 

So remove the lights… they are supposedly configurable with lamp irons in the bag.

No doubt a good shop like TMC could probably do it for you.

This is the evolution the W1 and 6202 didnt have, and presumably done with people with flexible requirements like yourself in mind.

it shouldnt be any different to choosing whether or not to add a snowplough or coupling shank.

49 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Where did the idea of changeable lamp positions come from? Did Hornby have focus groups to see what features modellers wanted on their locos? Or was it more just one person in the firm saying "let's try this"? 

I haven't seen much groundswell on RMweb, for example, for this feature. But then again, Tri-ang/Hornby have long been into "features".  Remember Magnadhesion (have I spelt it right) from the early 60s and the Seuthe smoke units of the same period units. The M7 with opening firebox door (and illuminated firebox) from 1967, etc.

So they have "form" for this.

Dapols A4 seemed to have been the catalyst for Hornbys upscaling in the recent modelling era… thats December 2015.., in peoples hands December 2016.

it had sound, lights and smoke, oh and a metal body…. (Dublo appeared with 6231 in 2020).

The W1 followed, with non working lights..in Jan 2022

then the Turbo with working lights in September 2023

Err… this is the point people started seeing red about lights… literally.

the Black 5 seems the next evolution with posable lights.

Hornby smoke and the metal body dublo  has followed a similar trajectory and timeline.

its worth pointing out Dapol A4’s £400 price tag was seen as high then, roll on to 44726 with lights and steam is £292, and its plastic, and the dublo ones are over £300 in metal without sound and lights its actually inflation friendly.

Dapol did state the A4 was first in a series of Black label locomotives, but no more followed, not even a re-run of the A4, and there has been a few grumblings about the features there too.

I do think the Dapol A4 set a standard that has still to be beaten, rainstrips and spare “traction tyred” options havent been copied, though the big box size has been adopted by nearly everyone… But in features terms it had it all… 

If Dapol had followed the Black label A4 with an A3 in 2017, a Duchess in 2018, Princess in 2019 etc  Hornby could have been in trouble with all the other duplication wars they were fighting.

how much does 3x 0204 leds, a bit of wire cost, and cutting a few 3x4mm pieces of plastic off a sprue.

If the model didnt have it, the price would still be the same. Indeed if lamps are abandoned, the next run of Black 5’s could simply not include it, have the lamp irons fitted and still be priced higher due to inflation.

moaning about lamps is just an excuse, unlike the W1, Turbomotive these lamps are adjustable…

indeed theres absolutely nothing stopping a modeller doing exactly that today… remove the lamps, fit the lamp iron, buy some 1980’s springside lamps and hey presto your happily back in your 2008 Black 5 quality bubble.

sell the lamps as spares on ebay, you’ll find a ton of takers.

My issue with 5200 isnt the lamps, I like it. I think the whole Black 5 is a magnitude improvement. I dont like repainting a £200 model to make it closer match, and watching its value fall quite steeply as a result… if 45157 has the wheels right, like the EP, i’m probably in.

Now whats to moan about next ?