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Agreed to above, but as I don't have the actuals I can only guess..

Looking over the numbers, it doesn't look like manufacturing, the product or product cost is the issue.

Where I'm going is operational efficiency is one problem. Marketing seems to be another.

I don't begrudge a higher paid exec, if he's adding value, but What I can't get my head round the marketing departments £12m figure and rationalising that to decisions on advertising spend, product promotion and feeding back to the company results of market research...especially when so many modellers, retailers and even industry publishers have voiced their frustrations here..it's obviously a problem...

Sales and Marketing are the deliverers of a companies lifeblood...Money. Bringing in sales is the measure of success..the results they are paid for.

Results are the equation of Skills + Activity.

It is clear the figures haven't delivered. The next step is to look at Activity..and given the negative feedback across the industry this too seems to be a problem, there's only 1 angle left in this triangle.. That's skill...are the sales and marketing people truly inline with the hobby or generic sales /marketing professionals or is it just outsourced consulting ?

It's worth pointing out, that until a few years ago, the person occupying this role was a industry respected individual with decades of experience and in every sense a passionate enthusiast. It feels to me there's a huge gap been left since his departure and trying to fill that gap with cash isn't necessarily the answer.

Operationally in my industry, a headcount to revenue ratio is approx 15x average salary.

Transpose that ratio to Hornby, 230 staff costing the company £11mn should support a company with revenues of £165mn.. Not £55m.

That is why I conclude Hornby is in some measure a company sized to operate based on past glories.

It's got some hard decisions to make across the board, as long as it has support of its shareholders they can pull through, but it's time to recognise Charles darwin's theory that the ability to survive isn't by being the largest or the strongest, but the one with the best ability to adapt to change...

That starting point has to be their customer and understanding their needs. It could also take a look at how their competitors are doing things and finally understand how the market has changed around them and look how they can best adapt to serve it...

It's not hard... By understanding a customer demand, recognising what competitors are doing and looking at what's popular we the customers have successfully been offered a 4TC to join our class 33/1 and class 71s... We're also on the verge of a 009 revolution by several manufacturers... Whilst we gripe about price, ultimately if just enough will buy to make it financially viable then that's sales and marketing at its best. That brings results and ultimately sustains a larger business.

230 staff, cost £ 11mn... That's an average £47k in salary, tax etc.

That 230 staff produce average £240k per head to the revenue figure of £ 55mn.

In my mind this figure is drastically too low.. Employees are not adding enough value to the sales total.

(At let's say a trade price of £60 a loco.. That's 4000 loco's per person ).

The £55mn revenue against production costs of £ 33mn, it's low (40%) but profitable until you look at the operating costs..

The one that stands out is sales & marketing costs of £12m... Must be getting expensive paying for magazine adverts ???.. £1mn a month - and they don't give out free samples any more ???

Distribution costs have gone up £3mn in a year too... (And I thought oil prices had gone down).

It seems that the problem isn't in manufacturing or in margin, but more related to the costs of administering the products once the goods are here.

£13mn in stock... @£60 a loco that's 216000 loco's in stock...(so taking into account the 000's of items in the range that must be in the millions of pieces of stock items across everything)... That's a lot of stock...

When other suppliers are manufacturing to order, have personnel in low numbers, and maximise their marketing at minimum costs, It feels to me Hornby are still trading in an ethos that goes back to the 80's rather than modern reality.

All of that is before we start to question the wisdom of what models they are actually making and in what quantity.

I have tried to order (twice now) using the link above and also got no email. Not worried about the email itself, just that my order has been acknowledged by the system!

Me too... I have ordered twice, but not received any confirmation.

Don't want to do it a 3rd time, as i'd be unfairly skewing the sales figures, as I only want 1... but at risk of unknown ?

You need to track down the source of the traction current.

 

Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs, but you need to start at the mains plug and work up the wiring and supply equipment until you reach the track. Somewhere in there will be a piece of equipment that is supplying the power.

 

Good luck mate.

 

Dave.

Its the track cleaner.

I took it out of the circuit.. it stops.

Doesn't affect any other loco, I can only assume that this loco somewhere has something taking the feed to operate it. It used to be DCC sound, but was bought as DC (DCC sound & chip removed).. somewhere in the wiring on the loco its getting power to the motor. Not sure I want to rewire it and risk losing the operating lights (they are controlled from on /off switches under the fuel tanks)..its wiring seems more complex than your average loco.

For now I'll just operate it offline of the track cleaner.

so at risk of actually talking about them, rather than price..

Just like Brexit and Dragon's Den.. i'm in...

I'm just trying to decide which one to order..

(My main interest is in the steam era.. so upto 68 - [67 in the case of the southern])

Does anyone know when the first units became Blue and Grey ? Ive seen a picture of an all blue one at Clapham Junction with a Std 4 4MT 2-6-4T next to it.. so I'm ok with this variant, but did Blue Grey appear before the end of steam ?.. did steam ever pull them (in either livery).. even as ecs .. that picture of 80140 next to it suggests it may have happened ..?

What puzzles me is why these even existed...why not just make as a.n.other 4 car EMU.. and attach a 33/1 for the dead sections as required..wouldnt have needed high juice 4Reps that way ?

Blue or Blue and Grey.. that is the question..

Perhaps the tooling would need to be permanently modified for the revised front end and Bachmann want to make sure they have squeezed every last penny from the existing tooling before making that change? This is pure speculation on my part and I have no idea if the revised version will ever happen.To be fair, it would seem a sensible thing to do. The modified 6-car units operated in both Nanking Blue and reverse Grey/Blue liveries. It extends the modelling window of the units well into the banger blue era. Also, it opens it up to WR modellers who have not had an authentic BP option so far. While the yellow ends were not particularly attractive, the finalised version was a lot better than the experimental custard-dip version that has been issued so far.I think this version would sell OK if it was produced.

:-)

The only thing left to do is disconnect the Track Cleaner.

 

Dave

Agreed, I'm out of the country at the moment, so next playtime is weekend

It's still a bizarre one.

Thanks for the help so far.

I don't think batteries are the issue, it's the charging time. 

With model airplanes you can get cheap battery packs (50p each) and recharge them in an hour via USB.. bit of a faff but it works.

My little one is currently obsessed by "hex bug nano"... this is a 1" insect that walks at random round your house.. (don't ask).

the technology is a 1cm sq motor with a baffle shape on the axle which makes it wobble (And hence the rubber legs look like they are walking and off it goes) and its got some power for it's size....

It runs off an  AG12 watch battery... goes for an hour (usually under a table/chair or cupboard where it makes a noise until it's rescued).

Battery cost me £1.50 for 30 at the local DIY (5p each).

it could be powerful enough to run an n gauge locomotive.. now who runs a loco for an hour non-stop ?

(Didn't Hornby have a few  Battery powered locos for a while in the 70s ?)

Possible solutions:

a. so make it efficient enough in watt consumption that it doesn't matter the cost of the battery (a-la hex bug nano)

b. faster chargers (Person who domesticates this technology will be a billionaire)

c. low cost rechargeable batteries / battery banks so a set up of spares is easily available at a low enough cost. (like model airplanes)

the other option is go down the Wilesco route, adding Brake control. then it's totally real.

I'm surprised if the blue pullmans were going to get another run produced that the reversed colour scheme wasn't produced at the same time. I wonder if that will ever be released now.

Could be a limited edition perhaps ?

Yes I am all DC.

I remove Dcc chips and swap them with blank plates.

This one I got via ebay, with sound removed and Dcc blank fitted, I changed it any way for another blank plate, but could there be something otherwise remaining from when it was sound fitted ?

I had it coupled to an 08 it was trying to drag along, but correctly the 08 was dead.

Possibly related, possibly not, but I note my Bachmann DLW dmu will sit there with lights on but not moving...when the controller is off. this I do relate to the track cleaner..if I remove the hf2 from the circuit, it's not lit up, which is what lead me to think this 47 is doing something along those lines.

I have an odd problem with my Bachmann 32-801ds.

It runs when there is no power to the track !!!

I am all DCC with a Gaugemaster Q, and a HF2 track cleaner in line.

No other loco mimics this behaviour on the same track.

My 32-801ds has had its DCC chip replaced with a blank panel chip.

I also removed the blank chip and swapped it for a new one.

I am presuming somewhere there's AC from the track cleaner in the track when the controllers off / at neutral and somehow it's doing something with this...but with A blank chip surely that shouldn't be happening - certainly no other loco I have is doing this.

Confused... Very much... Certainly gave me a quick wake up start to my working session this morning when I added it to the track turned on the mains and saw it speed off into the distance despite everything being off !!!

Here's a picture with the shell off, I don't see anything "rewired" but don't know how it compares to "standard".

Any help is appreciated failing that do I need to go to church and get divine intervention to this possessed little thing...

A GWR 4-6-0 county might be a nice model too to see Oxford do.

A good many locos are currently below £100.00 notes....Bachmann Compound, LMS diesel 10000, GER D16/3 4-4-0, £79.50, ROD (W.Reg) 2-8-0 all £79.50 each, GWR 'Castle', LNER A3 Pacific, SR S15 4-6-0, GCR 2-8-0 £99.50, LNW G2 0-8-0 £99.95, Bachmann LMS Jubilee £99.99....Just a few plucked out of this weeks emails from various model shops. Contrast this with a 6 months ago when Hornby and Bachmann thought they were on a ride to much higher prices.

But it's besides the point... It is advertised as a new tooling..it is offered (Without super sales prices) at less than £100...

Or

To put it another way.... In 2016, When a new tooled GWR saddle tank has an rrp of £150... This one has a price lower than Someone else is selling a diesel shunter.

So indirectly I think we agree.

We have been spoiled as modellers in the last 20 years, and I doubt unless the prices rises even more than it has already, will that standard be maintained. (The big boys aren't perfect now are they?).

This one to me is a reasonable compromise, I'm not going to buy a fleet of these, and neither do I find them glamorous, but I want 1. If that means I sacrifice some minor detail, yet still have something vastly better, at a lower price.. That means I can have a few spare quid to splash out on a model that I prefer to be super detailed at a higher standard later.

That said, I fit doesn't sell well... What bargain price would this go at ?, so far Oxford seems to be selling Radials quite well, and many variations available, so it's not been seen...that's not a bad sign surely ? However, inaccurate Mk3's for instance, the market maybe slightly more unforgiving...as old ones are plentiful and cheap..its quality that's sought for these, not price.

To me the model looks better than the airfix one. The price is ok. I will be wanting a black one.

You can always improve any model no matter how good it is.

So 3 ticks from me.

I may want to replace the printed cab side number with an etched one, otherwise I think it's all good.

Not many out there producing a tender engine retailing under 100 notes these days... Doubt even Hornby could do that with their existing dean goods. I wil be looking to see if that 0-6-0 chassis could be a source for some other small 0-6-0 kits I have too.

I presume a WD / ROD version may be forthcoming ?, maybe one or two other "war related" international liveries..., this being one of a few UK classes to have operated on 3 continents.. and through enemy capture or resale, some made it too quite exotic locations for this class including Russia, Poland, Tunisia, Turkey quite a few ended up in China ! - having been used in both World Wars...indeed nearly 1/3rd the fleet never returned to the UK.

Some links from other parts of rmweb here..

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100333-tales-of-war-and-peace-part-2-snowhillroxey-mouldings-wd-austerity-2-10-0-in-7mm/&do=findComment&comment=1936103

Also a few pictures from a French forum..

http://forum.e-train.fr/album_mod/upload/grandes/4c09d5b218266df17e8d0b6bb1b84648.jpg

http://forum.e-train.fr/album_mod/upload/fd281b12a9da3f73baa174c7f64fb175.jpg

I have booked my place on the Bachmann Collectors club annual day out on the East Lancashire Railway next September. A first for me as not living in the UK it isn't that easy. I have never been on the ELR so I thought it would be a good opportunity to take a tour. I shall also try to get in a trip around the Cumbria Coast Line to make a weekend of it.

 

Does anyone know the best way to get to the ELR Heywood station by public transport from central Manchester as I won't have a car?!

 

Thanks

Here's a picture of 30119 at Clapham.

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/t9class_01.html

On colour rails site there's pictures of it at Waterloo, Bincombe and Dorchester.

Meanwhile, back on topic, only 2 weeks or so to wait for the big one...

The Hornby annual reports I mean... Usually due by month end of June.

Will put us out of our misery and we'll see if the glass is half empty, half full and what livery adorns the glass.

Anyone care to speculate on the effects on Hornby if Britain votes yes to leaving the EU?

 

I'm just hoping it's No, otherwise I'll be buying your neighbours house and coming to join you.

Imagine if Hornby held stock, for every spare part for every model ever made...

There not enough storage space in The South East, let alone Margate.

Then consider storage fees, retrieval and handling fees... Then predicting the demand for it...

Back in the standardisation days where UK made models were all standardised and scale inaccurate parts this was a possibility, but to have every model bespoke tooled and stocked from China is barely possible at a realistic price.

Go on I'll take the bait...

"As the two items go hand in hand we have a special offer for customers wishing to buy both, plus we will be unveiling our 2016/17 exclusive membership wagon which is issued from 1st July onwards."

It's a model of Jack and Jill going up a hill and the new wagon is a water carrier ? :-)

A pair of 20s is the easiest guess, so it's probably not.

I'd like it to be Leander and Galatea, but they haven't "toured up and down the country", at least not Galatea.

Yes, that's a common mistake, and can be financially disastrous if not managed properly.

 

Nothing to do with model railways, but back in the late 90s I worked for a large Internet company. One of our biggest problems was sales staff selling systems that were really difficult to provide, technically, and thus cost more to fulfil than they earned. One particular deal was with a then big name "dotcom" startup that was going to revolutionise online retail. Unfortunately, they didn't really know what they were doing, and went bust - owing us a lot of money for systems we had put in place to provide services to them. That contributed to our parent company going down the pan as well. Meanwhile, the salesman who'd closed the deal walked away with a six figure bonus.

Its a fundamental misconception that a salesman sets the price. salesman sell what they are told to sell and have a margin of tolerance to work with. Beyond that they have to return to management for approval.

So if the management gave a salesman carte blanche to negotiate a sale... more fool the management, not the salesman.

The other aspect is software (like hardware) has a follow up sale.. it's not the initial selling of the product, it's the maintenance and support that follows. typically in IT the company buys the software twice.. Once the initial purchase cost, and again over the course of 3-5 years to pay for Support, R&D, Bug Fixes etc... commonly known as Maintenance, which can often be either part of or separate to a Support agreement.

Again, to get market penetration in Software, the initial sale (lets be honest in software it's just a download form a server and costs nowt), can be massively reduced to keep the maintenance on the books.. as do a good job.. that customer will keep renewing year on year.. thats where everyone makes money.. the customer because they don't need to migrate and pay for someone else to do it, the company because it's revenue for little effort.

Which brings to the final point... delivery.. if the software needs to be configured (as per your example), then it requires services... translated into Bodies / per day... this is usually a net zero or a negative  cost... Services never really earns money as it's seen as an enabler to ensure the success of the sale. If it's under estimated, the product doesn't work or the team aren't coordinated... this costs far more in £ and time than estimated and can take a company down, especially if the delivery is beyond the capabilities of the software. (in this case services is not consulting.. which is an altogether different animal).

Unlike model railways.. you buy it take it home and there on after your on your own.

Imagine how the hobby would be if you had to 'pay to play' or had to return your locomotives to the manufacturer for servicing and needed an engineer to build your layout for you before use, but on the flip side, when it was returned, you find it's had an upgrade to the chassis and fitted with a double chimney in the works !

Now imagine another scenario... imagine the salesman turns up, offers you a fleet of locos, the service agreement and deliveries of new releases. The engineer comes up offers a design for the layout and a price. The sales guy puts together a package and the engineer turns up and builds it. He lays the track, unboxes it, tests it and then invites you around to test it before sign off. On arriving you look at it and say.. but it's N gauge and I wanted 00. :-)

The life of a salesman.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/64/a7/35/64a73559da638f9059fa85118ecde3f5.jpg

 

 

To me, it looks as though they've mined pretty much all the major / popular classes that there are to mine. So what other things might be usefully rendered as models?

a new County, Saint, LTS Tank, Fowler 3MT 2-6-2T, Stanier 2MT 2-6-2T, N7, 77xxx, 84xxx, WD 2-10-0

then industrials..

Hudswell Clarke Sweden tank (MSC), Avonside 0-6-0ST, Andrew Barclay 0-4-0 are amongst the more popular or more commonly preserved.

Modern..

class 02, 06, 81, 82, 83,84..

EMUS..

where do you start... (But personally I'd be looking at a 304/5/8 and a 303.)

DMUs

Class 104, 107, 120, 124

Coaches...

Buffet cars !!!, MK1 Carflat, consider some L&Y, GNR, GE coaches to match some of the more recent loco offerings.. they ran until BR days too !

I'm sure theres lots of wish list threads out there !

Depends which one you want and the price differential is actually about £45 according to a price Heljan displayed at the Warley show.

Ouch, really ?

I  was comparing prices to Hattons (£131 + £4 p&p) to Kernows (£135).

Honestly don't know what to think.

Two manufacturers going head to head on a relatively obscure class of only 5 engines...

Price is near enough the same.

I only need one.. ( I don't really need any, but I can make it work ;-) )

both DJ and Heljan have produced strong geared models (the j94 sounds a real beast, but the 02 from Heljan also works like a land rover ).

Question is which one will sell me the one ?

Be fair to Dapol here,

There track record on little tank engines has been pretty good, indeed for years they were the only ones doing the really small ones...

We have had J94, Terrier, Pug,Sentinel and Beattie well tanks over the years, none of which have had too much in the way of issues.