Loconuts

Up until 10 years ago you are on the button, mainly there was no RTR around in my scale unless you commissioned someone to build it. I buy RTR now but they are quality items and American. I then alter them to conform to how the loco looked in the 1930-40 period. But to say that bespoke RTR is not possible is a bit wrong, there is a American company just doing that, but they are not cheap. As to your second point, you restorers spent hours and hours restoring a loco and then hang a Thomas the Tank Engine face on the front, joking. But as an engineer it is not always possible to restore it exactly as it was, example Castles never ran with air brakes under the GWR. The 18 century replica of a RN Frigate (Grand Turk) has a engine in it, so compromises have to be made. Keep up the good work with your restoration. Wrong with your last comment Phil, I am not criticising any RTR model, the O2 looks fine to me and to a standard which will satisfy the majority of 4mm modelers. If I was doing Southern in 4mm scale I expect I would buy one. The Bachmann City of Truro blew my mind away, my son has one of those. I was just pointing out the dangers of scanning to Dave Jones that leaves one open to criticism from the purist. I am not that serious and do enjoy a laugh. Loconuts

Yes Phil I do take my Model Railroad seriously, as I want to produce an accurate portrayal of what I am modeling, there are many of us out there and we have gone beyond the Thomas the Tank Engine stage. Ryde-on time you should try reading the correspondence instead of just scanning it. First of all I have not criticised the model and secondly I have not inferred someone of being a liar. I am just trying to scotch some rumours I heard which if got out of hand could hurt Kernow, similar things are going on the Hornby site at the moment and to be honest are getting out of hand. Andy should pull the plug on that topic before a backlash comes from Hornby. I agree with you Dave, it was a superb model of the preserved loco and that is what the NRM wanted, however a very pleasant evening discussing the model over a pint of beer with Martin Finney, its short comings were pointed out. He has done a shed load of research into the City class for his own kit and details of the changes and the date they were done are reported in the O S Nock books on GWR 4-4-0's. Best of luck with the O2 Loconuts

Thank you Dave for your honest reply, I asked the question due to some rumours I heard at a model railway meeting recently. I have no interest in the O2, not my scene even though I live in that part of the world. Please do not read something sinister or controversial into this. (Adrian/Andy spat) As to the Hattons thing, well the truth is I forgot as my attention was diverted to the redecoration of the bathroom by SWMBO who decided that was more important. I also now feel that it is not important now as it appears Hattons have a Railway Enthusiast on board and seems to be coming up with some good ideas. I am not against a 14xx but my beef is the scanning of preserved locos to the detriment of other classes. Case in point was the Bachmann City of Truro, this was scanned from the present day loco, great as it was the first outside framed RTR model of a GWR prototype, but it was wrong and could only be run in the preserved period and not in its revenue period. To do that would take a major rebuild of the model to back date it. Many modelers are quite happy to run it but that distorts history for future generations. A funny story regarding the 517 class was that many years ago I built one in 4mm scale from the Mallard etched kit, I took it to the club and the numbers of modelers that came up to me that night and said that the cab was wrong for a 14xx. But that was in the days prior to the Russell books coming out. Loconuts

HI Graham All through the development of the two locos they have been in equal development and even the video of the pre-production model running on the layout was the Mainland version, also both versions were shown in their pre-production form. What went wrong with the Mainland version dragging behind as I thought it was acceptable to proceed with according to the Kernow site? When is it due for release then? Loconuts

Very nice samples, but where is the Mainland one? Loconuts

I agree Craig that it would be a difficult model to satisfy all tastes, however a long wheeled based loco with outside frames on the trailing axle in its final rebuilt state would satisfy many peoples taste. They were more common on GWR branches than the newer 48xx/58xx's with these replacing the 517's towards the end of the GWR. No the reason I mentioned this as a model is I believe the trade is giving a distorted picture to British Railway History by only producing examples of preserved locos. Case in question being the Bachmann Dukedog, only a few produced for use in the 1930's on the old Cambrian Railway, although we did see one working around Oxford. However they ignored the more numerous Dukes which lasted quite late and served all over the system. Bird series Bulldogs, last until BR (Seagull) There is a wealth of pre-nationalise non- preserved locos out there which would be good sellers. Over to you Dave and Hattons. Loconuts

I know what their reply will be, whats a 517? the fact that the 14xx was just a modernised 517 people seem to over look it. It is funny that the Airfix model came out in 1978 as that was the year I was commissioned to build a 7mm scale 517 (Fair Rosamund in 1920's condition) for Mike Little, the present owner of 1450. Scratch built right down to the cab fittings. I was also commissioned by several customers to build the successful Malcolm Mitchell 7mm scale kit of the 517 when it appeared so that might answer your question on whether it will sell. To be honest small GWR Locos sell well, look at the Wills Small Metro and the various Pannier Tank kits that have been produced over the years. The Wills Small Metro sold like hot cakes when it first came out and you were lucky to get your hands on one. I know this is a commission for you on behalf of Hattons but the RTR trade just seem to be regenerating the same models, is that because they are preserved and can be scanned and less research needs to be done on the prototype? As for producing well selling models of locos that lasted into BR days, you have been commissioned to do the GWR Steam Railmotor, long gone before WWII but it will sell well as it is ideal for small branch lines, I have built 4 on commission in 7mm scale. Sorry for being controversial, but just wanted to point out there is a wealth of other locos waiting to be modelled out there. Loconuts

Why oh why are you doing the 14xx yet again, why not the more common 517 which had a longer life and lots of variations. True they did not run into BR, but they did run late in GWR. But with the various rebuilds it would be a best selling and long lasting model. You could even include the only GWR Named Tank Engine ' Fair Rosamund'. Loconuts

Agree with this, just get used to the idea that one is going to pay a much more realistic price in the future. Gone are the pile it high and sell it cheap days. The manufacturers are going to bring in smaller batches and sell at a more realistic price. Coming from 'O' scale these prices for 'OO' are unrealistic and how the manufacturers make a profit is a wonder. Check out the price of the Heljan coaches 'O' gauge with the price of a 'OO' coach. Loconuts

Hi, Yes you can cross drill in 4mm scale if you have got the right equipment to do it, however you will be reducing the surface area of metal to solder to. My question is why you would want to do it? The cross drilling and pinning of the crank to the axle is to add strength to counter act the rotational load on the two items and as you are not using the cylinders to drive the loco there is no need to pin. I fabricated my first cranked axles from separate components and I did cross drill them, basically to stop them from falling to bits, but you are using a one piece casting so there is no fear of that happening. As long as the crank is a good tight fit on the axle and some solder around the web and axle is applied it will be strong enough for the service you require. It takes a long while to build a loco, so why make extra work for yourself. Loconuts

Hi Horsetan No need to cross drill the cranks or silver solder. On Martins stand is a 7mm scale axle complete with eccentric sheaves, inside cranks and outside cranks mounted on a Slaters Axle. I put that together many years ago when Martin first introduced the castings for use with his inside motion kits. It is only soft soldered together and I think it still runs true after much handling. I can also vouch that the soft solder route is strong enough in so far that a pannier tank I had just built decided that it would like to take flying lessons and hit the deck on the crank axle. The chassis was bent upwards but the axle still ran true. All you need to do is ream the axle holes so that they are a press fit on the axle, once positioned heat with a micro-blow torch and apply solder around the axle. When fitting the cranks on the axle you will have to put a loose spacer between the side cheeks of the crank to stop it squeezing up. Hope I have been of help. Loconuts

Just seen this and I know what the surprise is, they are going to produce models that AdrianABS cannot criticise. Loconuts

The wheel profiles work very well with Micro-engineering track standards, however they will not work with the Peco track which is course scale and developed for these kits for use with a Triang chassis. I am surprised to see these kits still about, quite right they appeared in the late 60's and I had forgotten that they were introduced by Stephan Poole. I have seen a layout of the GVT where the inspection panels on the side skirt were raised up showing the outside motion. That was many years ago, only seen it once and never again. Loconuts

Hi Paul, I don't know much about the prices of Bemo or Roco, however having purchased all of the MMI range with a few spare I do disagree with the blummin expensive statement. It depends on which end of the market you are coming from, the 4mm end and yes they look expensive from the 7mm end they are not considered expensive. This is a 1/4 scale model, not HO. Look what you have to pay for the Blackstone HOn3 models, I believe it is around the same price as the MMI ones and they still sell very well. I stated that they were about the same length as a British 7mm scale 4-4-0 tender loco, for a while my K-28 stood in front of a Martin Finney 'Bulldog'. The K-28 cost me at the time £290, the 'Bulldog' sold for over £2000 pounds. I agree the sound decoders in the first K-27's were rubbish and I now have Tsunamis fitted to the locos. But the detail and finish is superb and I have not had a bad runner. Also the gap between each introduction was such that you could save up between each one. I don't suffer from my eyeballs being bigger than my wallet as many modelers in this country do, you know the ones, I want one of those and one of those etc. Also I have nevered wanted something for nothing, if it was too expensive I will walk away. Having built Locos for other people I have had to deal with this type of person and rather than agreeing to their price I have walked away. No all things considering the MMI range was fairly priced, double the projected Heljan price and you would be in the MMI price range but you are paying for a 009 (4mm) Tank Engine which would be half the loco in 1/4 scale. Also this is a projected price by Heljan, memories of the Lionheart 7mm scale 45XX which had a projected price of around £800 came in around the £1200 and yet it still sold. If it is a good model then people will buy it, rubbish model then you can pick one up at discounted prices. Loconuts

Hi Mike I agree with your comments to a degree, however I did not consider the MMI K class locos too expensive. The quality was superb and having worked in 7mm SG the price was no different than a Martin Finney kit, yet these came built and painted. Also the MMI models came from South Korea and used lost wax castings which Precision Scale had the patterns for. I don't consider them too big, they are no longer than a SG 4-4-0 in 7mm scale. The recession hit the model market really hard in the States after 2008 and still affecting them. I have two PSC vestibule coaches on order, they have been on order for 7 years and I don't expect to see them in my lifetime. It is about time we had some British RTR so good luck to the ventures, but manufacturers please don't forget there are a lot of 7mm Narrow Gauge modelers out there. Loconuts

As an ill informed commentator I would like to say the next manufacturing base will be.................North Korea. How do I know, well my friend in Taiwan who has a plastic moulding company is moving his plant from China to there. Reason, to get over the labour shortages and to keep his prices down. The company was originally set up in Taiwan, however his workers paid for better education of their children who now do not want to work on the shop floor of a factory but want to work in a nice clean office environment. The same is happening in China. ​I wish to say thank you to Dave (DJ Models) for backing my views on the Bubble Bursting on the UK manufacturers which was on another thread, I was considered consensus for those remarks by some, Apologises will be excepted on a postcard. They know who they are. I hope that the Bubble does not burst in the near future and if the slowing down of the American market starts to pick up we might find that the British market slowing down. Loconuts

Not my scale or scene, but it is sure good to see someone else are making a move into RTR narrow gauge, the other being Bachmann with their Baldwin in 009. However to give you guys some idea as to the minimum numbers that have to be manufactured in order to get a decent turn around for their investment. I was told by Precision Scale about the number of MMI models they needed was 5000 units and they needed to achieve a certain number of pre-orders before they started cutting metal. They failed to achieve enough pre-orders to go into production with the C-21 and the other D&RGW models announced to be viable concerns and the MMI division was shut down. The same could happen here if Heljan or Bachmann fail to see a sizeable number of pre-orders. So if you want one or two, stop speculating and put your money where your mouth is or it won't happen. Loconuts

The more import thing is, what colour are the boxes and are they shiny or matt. Also how many could you pack in a cupboard!!!!!!! Loconuts

This is to Arthur, do you ever study the prototype because LSWR locos did not have clack valves mounted on the smokebox and as far as I know no loco had that feature. The LSWR Adams locos had lubricators mounted on the smoke box. Clack valves were used to feed water to the boiler so would not be a lot of good feeding it to the smoke box. The Highland 103's did not have this feature but did have a builders plate fixed to the smoke box side and the lubricators were down at footplate level. It is not a Adams T3 as the frames are the wrong shape, unless Oxford Rail have made an error. Loconuts

I cannot see the picture becoming any clearer with the days, and as the mistyness could be smoke, could this not be a smokescreen. They say they are producing '00' railways, but not which scale and seeing 0n30 runs on 16.5 gauge track it could be a Welsh Narrow Gauge prototype in 7mm scale. Say a Double Fairlie?

I mentioned earlier about a Welsh Radial, here it is. It ran on the Brecon and Merthyr Railway. Beyer, Peacock & Co. 4-4-2T 1 44 1391 ex-LSWR 46 class No. 0376 Loconuts

Having built an M7 in both 4mm & 7mm scale I know that it is feasible to produce a chassis that stops the usual bunker yawing and balancing the weight distribution. With the 4mm model I used the Guy Williams method of constructing the chassis as a 0-8-0 with a pivot point behind the rear drivers thus allowing the chassis to flex with front and rear pivots. In 7mm scale I just reversed the method I used for 4-4-0's involving side control springing and the rear of the loco supported on the centre of the bogie. The side control springing controlling the swing of the bunker and leading the loco into the curve. Now on the 7mm scale Adams radial I built the chassis as a 4-6-0 with the rear axle sprung vertically, side control on the front bogie. The gear drive on the rear axle with the motor pointing forward and contained within the driving wheel wheelbase. I would think this method would work on a 4mm version and leave room for a decoder, not a problem I had in any of these build as DCC had not been developed then. Unfortunately chassis design has not been a strong point with RTR manufacturers which has given rise of companies like Brassmasters.

I apologize to you and Bachmann UK, that response from Bachmann UK had not been published at the time I read the original e-mail. It makes sense now, when using sub-contractors it is a good idea to give quantities required for the year as this can reduce the price. I would suggest Bachmann supply that notice of policy to the retailers for them to display to the public, this would ensure people would pre-order in time. Kernow did this a couple of years ago with their Beattie Well Tank in 7mm scale, the pre-orders were below the required number and so the project got cancelled. I have no axe to grind with Bachmann, as I have stated I model the other side of the pond and have several Bachmann products and no complaints about any. They are accurate and run well, yes there have been reported problems but I have not had any. As far as the British scene, I get to see many 4mm offerings from Bachmann and Hornby due to my son switching back from 7mm scale to 4mm scale. The best model he has in his collection is a Kernow Beattie Well Tank, it is a gem. The other model which impressed me is the Bachmann City of Truro done for the NRM, that model would not look out of place on Pendon. It is a good model to compliment his Finney Bulldog. Loconuts

Why did you not pull the plug on those guys who started this rumour. I was only quoting what has been written by someone else or has free speech been banned. For your information there is nothing libellous in my e-mails legally. If you or your backers wish to make a case I would be very happy in meeting you in court. I have only suggested at what might happen if the market place overheats which it is showing signs of doing. This is a web site in which contributors can air their views whether they are right or wrong and I am sure in stating that the majority of contributors are quite happy to be corrected if they have got some facts wrong, I know I am. You may not like what I am saying personally but that is your prerogative. But I am allowed to air my views as anyone else as long as I do not insult them or damage their reputations with falsehoods. Loconuts

Hi Guys, just to stop the speculation, the photo shows 1364 in post war time livery of green with only GWR on the tanks. I have seen photos of these cute locos with the full Great Western and the Shirt Button on the tanks. Brilliant choice of prototype by Kernow. I had one in 4mm and 7mm scale along with the Pannier version. Apart from the 4mm saddle tank and 7mm Pannier tank the remaining locos were scratched built. Also they appeared in black with the scrawny cat on a bicycle wheel under BR and then one or two got painted in green with the BR toten. A very useful and long lived prototype. Loconuts