ianLMS

This forum is a massive pool of experts, helpful folks and extremely useful information which is saving me time and money. For instance, upon further research, it now appears that the DCD-ADS-8FX does not remember frog polarity or the point direction for the LED's and would require complete re-setting at each operating session or after a short. I am awaiting further guidance from the experts on here about which way to go, but I am leaning towards a combination of: 1. ADS-8FX to operate the points via z21 (Android Tablet), Multimaus and/or toggle switches (for back-up) using the DCC Track Power Bus. 2. Frog Polarity will be via the DCC80 Auto-Frog or current Peco PL-13 & PL-15 switches (most points fitted already with them except the 12 in the fiddle yard) 3. LED's can be powered via direct wiring to the point (see Mr Brian Lambert's website for info) or via the Auto-Frog where fitted (looks the same principle). I am also looking to see if my DC powered point indicator circuit boards can be used for the LEDS as well.

Sorry to resurrect an old subject - I am just about to wire up 4 ADS-8FX decoders to operate 32 peco points and want to get this right. I would like the ability to operate my points using both momentary toggle switches on my control panel, switch polarity and have LEDS to indicate setting and also via DCC through my z21 Android Tablet. This gives me the ability to still operate the layout if my tablet dies via my Multimaus controller and panel. Reading this post it suggests that I simply use the DCC track bus to provide power to the input, wire up the switches, points and LED's and away I go? Q1. Will the LED's remember which way the points are set when I power down at the end of the session? Q2. Frog Polarity Switching - Reading other posts, it appears the ADS-8FX will forget which way the points are set if there is a short or I turn off the power at the end of the day. Is there a simple way around this?Options I have seen are: 1. Don't use the frog switching option and use separate frog juicers/auto-frogs and use other means for the LED's 2. Use a separate power Bus just for the accessory decoders. How do I do this? 3. Sell them and buy the latest ones with memory chips built in (expensive) 4. Use the Peco switches on the points for frog polarity change and Heathcote or similar circuit boards for LED panel indication 5. Programme an auto-route on the tablet to re-set the points to "off" every time I power up. Thank you for any help and advice you can give. Ian

Thank you Chris - very kind words indeed!! Great fun doing it and lots of plans and ideas for the next 4F (lots to do before I get around to that one though).

To add - The ones in the pictures behind the Scot are the Airfix GMR ones - my favourites! Maybe not 100% accurate in scale or that detailed, but I much prefer the darker maroon to the bright red ones with silver roofs from Hornby. Bachmann are quite nice too. I believe the latest ones from Hornby are nice, but at over £40 per coach, it will be while before I pick any of them up! Ian

Thank you for the kind words! Like most modellers probably, I own a mixture. When I re-started modelling and had limited funds/knowledge I was picking up all sorts of stuff that appeared cheap on Ebay. I now have a collection of old Hornby Railroad (silver top), Bachmann (grey top), Airfix & Airfix GMR (darker maroon colour) coaches - around 15 in all, plus Bachmann 50' Parcel vans, a Hornby 12-wheel Dining Car and an old Hornby Royal Mail coach. When I commence proper operation, I intend the rake same manufacture/age coaches together as they all differ in size, buffer height, couplings etc and look very odd together in the same train. Eventually, I will replace them all with higher quality, more accurate coaches as funds permit. Thanks Ian

Nice idea - something different and its info like this that anyone under a certain wouldn't know about (me included). I had also thought about using it as a banking loco and just couple it behind one of my larger ones, or putting it behind the other 4F. I have seen footage and photo's of this so not too hard to replicate!!

Latest update: Was not happy with the DCC30's and how they operated and programmed. Even following advice from Gaugemaster, updating the z21 settings via maintenance programme and re-programming still resulted in mis-fires, jamming up and smoking solenoids. So, even though I purchased the 4 used decoders at a very good price (£20 for 3 + £20 for 1 - total - £40), I have decided to change direction. I will now be selling the DCC30's, plus my auto-frogs (12) on Ebay as I have decided to go down the DCC Concepts DCD-ADS8FX route: Functionality Reasoning: The DCC Concepts solenoid decoders can operate 8 point motors, LED's for point direction and polarity switching all from the same single decoder and are supposedly easier to programme as they have a "learning" switch. Less space required, easier to wire and should be simple!! Cost Reasoning: Cost to control all 32 existing solenoid points, switch polarity and power LEDS using the Guagemaster DCC30's and DCC80's = £370 (£40 for 4 used DCC30's + £36 for 12 DCC80's + £240 for 4 additional DCC30's, + £60 for 20 additional DCC80's. Cost to do same with DCC Concepts DCD-ADS8FX = £180 (1 brand new/3 slightly used off Ebay for £120) How daft do I feel not just going for these in the first place. Even if I purchased 4 brand new ones, I would have saved around £130 (almost enough to buy a new loco!!!) Hind Sight is a wonderful thing!!! Have a great weekend!!!!! Ian

Latest Fiddelyard progress update: Track laying is now complete, powered up and tested. Ironed out a few minor issues and installed surface point motors, reed switches for lane occupation detection and currently in the process of installation and programming the DCC accessory decoders so I can control the points from my tablet or Multimaus. I had also installed Gaugemaster DCC 80 Auto-frogs, and the accessory decoders are DCC 30's. I was extremely chuffed and smug about my very cheap deal on the DCC30's. 3 for £20, plus a fourth at another £20. Control 16 points for £40. (each decoder new is £60+) so a bargain. Add in the Auto-frogs (12 for £36) and so far, the cost is £76 - not bad I thought!!!! Hind sight is a wonderful thing!!! Here is where the smugness is wiped from my face and a lesson learnt in compulsive buying and lack of proper research!!! - I was not overly happy with how the DCC30's programmed and operated. Very noisy and kept jamming, over-heating my solenoid motors I used for testing purposes and limited in functionality even though I followed the instructions and got advice from Gaugemaster. Add in the total cost of 4 additional decoders and 20 auto-frogs to control all 32 points, the cost is very quickly escalating. £40 + £36 + £240 (4 additional DCC30's), + £60 (20 additional DCC80's) the total cost would be in the region of £370.00. A considerable investment!!! Along comes DCC the Concepts DCD-ADS8FX; So, after research I purchased the following: 1 x new DCD-ADS8FX - £60 3 x slightly used DCD-ADS8FX from Ebay - £120 The DCC Concepts solenoid decoders can operate 8 point motors, LED's for point direction and polarity switching all from the same decoder and are supposedly easier to programme as they have a "learning" switch. 4 of these will do everything I need for a total cost of £180.00!!!!! How daft do I feel not just going for these in the first place. Even all brand new, I would have saved over £130 (enough to buy a new loco!!!) So, the 4 x DCC30's and 12 x DCC80's will be shortly appearing on Ebay at a knock down price!!! Have a wonderful weekend!!!!! Ian

Here is the final resting place for my modified Airfix 4F and Hornby 3F (both poor running/non-working loco's). Ideal for a static "on-shed" cameo scene. Need to darken the area still, and give it a good dust!!!!

Perfect - looks like an interesting modification. Have to think about that one. Sheet brass I think. Thank you also Horsetan for the Alan Gibson info - I looked at that and for some reason i didn't order it, instead favouring the set of 4 from Brassmasters (more chance of getting the right one I guess). Next time I do a Gibson order I will add a couple of those!!

Ahh, that's what they are called. I had purchased a selection of Brassmasters LMS steam ejectors but none of them matched the 4F. (A112 Lostwax sprue containing A108, A109, A110, A111 £9.00)

I was in the same boat as you a year or two ago - not sure which to buy or use. Aerosol versus Airbrush. I purchased a cheap kit from the BRM offer to start with. It was just a spray craft one with a very cheap compressor but I used it quite a bit and practiced on an old wagon and loco. I then had the bug and purchased a Sparmax 4 from Eileen's emporium. Much better Airbrush than the cheap Spraycraft one, so to answer your question, no, they are not all the same. Best idea is to go to a large show or a shop which specializes in airbrushes and try them out and seek advice from the experts. Iwata was too pricey for me, but the Sparmax was on budget and very good quality. I then got a decent compressor from Ebay which again, makes a huge difference. Cleaning up takes under a minute when swapping paint over, and under 3 minutes for a full strip and clean at the end of the session. I just use humbrol aerosols for the primer. Not tackled a full on loco yet, but I am working on it!!! I did spray the below tank (a training aid for work) with the Sparmax 4 airbrush and I was very pleased with the results.

As my model is set in the North West, I think that qualifies me to have one. Does anyone have a pic of the back-cab for reference?

Bad weather in the midlands and north west of England? Never heard of it!!!

A nice simple touch is thin copper wire to replicate all the little exposed pipework around the loco. Lubrication feeds probably. There are several on the prototype if you look closely. Take a look on Flickr and search LMS 4F, and a hundred pics will come up. I did the same for the 3F, but was not so convincing. I tried to add as many as I could without it looking out of place. Zero cost as I have a bucket load of copper strand wire which I salvaged. The exhaust valve (i think that's what it is or clack valve maybe?) on the front left side of the boiler is impossible to source as a ready to fit item, so I had to modify the one off the model. I filed off the moulded top valve and moulded pipework, scratchbuilt a new one and drilled a hole to accept a short piece of brass rod and fitted it to the main valve which was the original Airfix one. This was then fitted to the new handrail (note thinner section at the very end of the handrail). A larger hole was drilled in the bottom of the valve to accept a piece of thicker brass rod for the main pipe coming up just in front of the front splasher. I then super-glued the thin copper wire to replicate the pipes seen on the prototype picture. For instance, take a look at the pipework under the boiler. Simple to add detail. https://www.flickr.com/photos/66202473@N04/15479526237/in/photolist-oRZawi-dZ3fsD-qDNE3g-pzSBRp-pUoh5a-qux2Mo-dUqySL-atHRbk-aXeS8V-j9Dggv-qsxWoc-E79M3t-djhwNa-dZ5VkS-daro3j-pwRoo5-9spAH8-bygVwc-aeKn29-moPRmT-8RxS6p-kPZGKc-gwwTMG-brNhkx-cNHPNS-SWciTW-6eaK4k-Rx6Nth-dnZ2U3-brE7ZV-fZePsD-djBtTx-i2iu9x-gnBVpd-kPZKCB-8SgwRF-z8iNHx-gBRWt5-GuFhaS-aDAbhx-mZaw1W-VnqUNt-dRiNyR-oZH1TJ-nBk4we-nuHwMW-p5BWja-nCgRDa-pmDqg2-97NpJF

Thank you Northmoor, A mans memory is a huge deposit of useful (reference material, enjoyable events as a teenager etc) and not so useful (anniversary's, birthdays, SWMBO hair appt's etc) information that we can recall whenever the need arises (unless its the not so useful info which why a man invented the mobile phone with a calendar reminder!!!!) I agree, the 4F's are great little models, and I am sure I will end up with a few of them! This one is a poor runner so currently it is added to my static engine service area cameo along with the 3F Jinty so will not get the DCC treatment. However, the next one is a very good runner and I hope to do a much better job on the upgrades and fit a decoder in it. I will keep hunting out cheap ones on Ebay, but don't plan on spending more than £20 on one.

Lol. I am hoping this is helping me prepare to jump into the art of kit building If i can succesfully mod a rtr loco well, it will help me move onto whitemetal or brass kits. I did close up the gap a little but my curves into the fiddle area are little tight so i have to be careful

Ahh, wheels - that was on the list as well, but quite pricey. Well, in for a penny, in for a pound as they say, so for the next one, I probably will invest in a wheel set with better coupling rods etc. Brake rods would also be added, and DCC conversion!

Definately. I have another Airfix 4F to modify. Hopefully it will turn out a bit better

I thought I would share my thoughts concerning a little project where I decided to detail/modify the Airfix LMS 4F I purchased from Ebay for £18.00. This was the second model I decided to modify after completing a Hornby 3F for a static cameo scene (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118548-help-please-whats-inside-a-3f-jinty-smoke-box/). The donor model was a c.1980's Airfix LMS 4F No 4454. The plan was to detail the loco, re-number and weather it. It was a cheap model, so I wasn't worried about messing it up. The basic loco was fine, but the detail was lacking, and I am sure the experts in the room will advise that the Airfix model has various issues concerning the scale dimensions etc. I was fine with the anomalies - after all, this was a learning project. I found images of a 4F on Flickr and used this as a guide to help with the details. I purchased a Brassmasters 4F Detailing kit meant for a Bachmann 4F - £10.00(http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/4f_details.htm), replacement splashers (£12), LMS buffers (£6), LMS steps (£5), handrail knobs and wire (£4.00) screw couplings (£2.50), vacuum hoses (£2.50), loco tools & crew (£7.00) - total cost so far: £67.00 including cost of the model. So, this is the main question---was it worth the cost/effort, when you compare to newer and more accurate models available between £50-£100? Of course it was worth it - I learnt a lot, enjoyed being creative and it was much more satisfying than just opening a box and plonking it on the track. SPLASHERS (mudguards) The biggest challenge overall was the replacement splashers. This required me to hack the old splashers away from the body, shape and solder the new brass ones up, glue them on the loco body, and fill the huge gaps left behind - very time consuming, but a good deal of thought, model making and creativeness made it enjoyable. Although the pics don't really show it, the size difference between the Airfix splashers and the Brassmasters ones is quite a bit and many agree, the Airfix and Hornby/Bachmann splashers are all over-sized. DETAILING KIT Contains replacement loco buffer beams including piston rod covers, locomotive buffer bases and buffer packing pieces, template for front locomotive sandboxes, replacement tender front to produce the earlier type of tender, tender and cab doors, tender buffer beam overlays, buffer bases and packing pieces, replacement tender 00 guard irons. OTHER DETAILS Loco crew (PD Marsh), Vacuum Hoses (Gibson), LMS Loco sprung buffers (Gibson), LMS Steps (Gibson), Sandpipes (.33 brass wire), real coal, footplate (plasticard), copper pipe, handrails and small knobs (Gibson), front axle guard irons (scratchbuilt using template from brassmasters kit), Pressfix numbers and letters, PAINTING/ WEATHERING: Humbrol Matt Black (smoke box) and Humbrol Gloss Black enamel paint (main body), brass, copper and red for cab detail, Microscale Krystal Klear (cab windows) Humbrol weathering powders, Birchwood Brass Black (blackens metals, not just brass). Donor model and end results:

The z21 team (Gaugemaster) were very helpful. It seems the DCC30 wont send a signal back to the control centre as it doesnt have that function. They advised i just programme using cv513 and try it out. Plus i need to go into maintemamce and change the settings so the +/- 4 issue doesnt arise. Will let you know tomorrow how i get on. Ian

Thanks Keith. I will give them a call and see what they say. Ian

Good morning everyone. I am looking for assistance with programming a Gaugemaster DCC 30 accessory decoder using the Roco z21 app on an android tablet. The Gaugemaster instructions give the main address of the decoder as CV 513. However, when i go to Programming and try to read the address i get a failed message. I am sure i am not doing something right. Just what i dont know. I have tried going up and down 4 as i jave heard the Roco systems are off by 4 but still no good. Simple step by step to programme an accessory decoder would be perfect. Cheers. Ian

I have a Roco z21 (white) starter set. Came with Multimaus handset (very easy to use) and Wi-Fi router for £145.00 brand new - I use the Multimaus handset and my Andriod Tablet to operate both loco's and points. Will also work from a PC with different free software. I am soooo pleased with the system!!! Take a look at "Simons Shed" on You-tube, or the info on the Roco website. I purchased mine from Ipswich model rail centre www.scograil.co.uk. They also sell the Bachmann and other DCC controllers. NOTE: There are two versions of the Roco control system. The Z21 (note capital Z) (Black) at Scograil is £280 (http://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-10820--z21-digital-control-system-2365-p.asp). The black version is more advanced and has a few more functions (I wouldn't use anyway). The z21 (note lower case z) (white) is £109.95 with Multimaus Handset (http://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-multimaus-with-z21-start-10729-p.asp). £34.95 will get you the Wi-Fi router and activation code for use with a mobile phone or tablet. Hope this helps! Ian

Thank you both - I will take a look at my Mainline Jubilee's to see if there is a void up the front. I am sure when I checked the Bachmann one, there was zero space. No room along the side of the chassis either, as the wires were enough to stop the body from fitting. I am quite happy with the decoder fitting in the tender, but ideally I would like it to go in the loco, just without having to hack chunks out of the chassis or the body. Thanks Ian