Leander

27 minutes ago, cb900f said:

Pete,

 

I'm sure you know this but don't forget that 45020-70 didn't have a steam heating pipe on the front buffer beam.

 

Pete

That had passed me by completely. From looking at my collection of digital photographs it appears that few of the Vulcan, Crewe and the first Armstrong Whitworth built locos had them. However there's always one that proves the exception, here's 45070 in store inside Warrington (Dallam) shed in March 1967 to do just that. A photo on Rail Online shows that one was present in 1965 as well

4 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Thank you Leander for taking the time to add some pictures.  As I have just said above I know very little about Black Fives.  However I am not sure what your picture is showing as the sides of your tender are showing plenty of rivets.

 

Cheers Ray

I'm happy to help and assist you in learning more about Black 5s. If you look at your photo of your 44908, you'll notice a horizontal line of rivets roughly level with the top of the handrail at the front of the tender side. This is a fully rivetted tender. On my model of 44765 with the Comet part-welded tender that row is missing but, you're correct in saying that there are plenty of rivets. The LMS found that the fully welded version was prone to leaks so went to the part-welded type instead for the last built series of locos. You don't necessarily need to kit build to do a part-welded tender, it can be achieved by removing the rivets from a fully riveted tender, with the use of a very sharp blade e.g. a scalpel, and a very steady hand!

On the subject of front bufferbeams, the earlier members of the class received flush riveted buffer beams with the switch to the visibly riveted type coming later. These were exchanged at various times as replacements were necessary. Here are two further examples, 45021 is Vulcan built early loo with a riveted buffer beam and riveted tender, while 45253 has the riveted version of buffer beam and a welded tender.

As always, a good clear photo of the loco you're intending to model is essential. Several books giving much information about the class and its multitude of variations are available. I can recomment the two volumes pblished by the RCTS and the five 'Book of the Black 5s' published by Irwell.

Cheers

Pete

What you describe a 'part riveted tender' is a work of fiction on Hornby's part. It has welded tank sides and ariveted rear.

This is what I believe it should look like:

This is a Hornby model of a forward top feed loco 9I can't recall the original donor model) with Comet double chimney, AWS gear and a part-welded tended.

And of course Hornby keep repeating the same basic errors, for example the 'panel' under the smokebox being misplaced and the 'skirt' at the base of the body of the tender tank.

Details with withdrawal dates and final shed allocations may be found here: http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=61&type=S&page=fleet

1 hour ago, 5&9Models said:

Is this the one in Chester?

It certainly looks similar. I recall it was a Greenall Whitley pub back in the 70s.

Very nice David.

Thanks for the plug Andrew. There's more information about next Saturday's EMGS Modelling Workshop (including EMGS AGM 2019) here: 

Large tender emblem on this photo, descibed as having been taken in the !960s: https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p794870091/hb6112fc9#hb6112fc9. It's fitted with AWS gear.

Very nice job by the way!

Looking good Baz!

Remove the decoder and replace it with the blanking thingy that probably came packed in the loco's box.

Switched diamonds?

Did Mike pull the Bachy wheels out Barry or did he replace them. If the latter, what did he use?

An excellent line and thanks for the photos Andy. The thing that impresses me on each visit is its tidiness and the thought given to the standard of presentation, unlike some other preserved lines which appear to resemble linear scrapyards!