robertcwp

49 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

Is the email from Crecy or another bookseller? I've not received anything from Crecy regarding my order with them...

I received an email from the bookseller I have ordered from, which is not Crecy.

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Well, 'went the day well'!

 

There were seven of us operating LB today, and we almost drove it perfectly (until I forgot to set one road correctly, resulting in the 'Lizzie' scattering hapless wagons asunder! Yes, I've done it before).

 

No matter, a great day was had by all........

 

 

 

My thanks to all the participants (they really are enjoying themselves), and particular thanks to Mo for her usual hospitality. Thanks, too, for the wonderful cake and the biscuits.

 

Days like today, operating a trainset with dear friends, reinforces my belief in the capacity of this great hobby for engendering mental well-being; even allowing for my operating incompetence! 

 

Long may they continue.................

 

By the way, boxes (and even locos out of their boxes) were an everyday occurrence on Station Road, Little Bytham! 

 

 

A very enjoyable day. Thanks to Tony and Mo for their hospitality.

7 hours ago, MJI said:

 

SR Tons missing, no SUBs 4CORs or anything like that

No 4 Cig/4 Big. There were 138 Cigs and 28 Bigs and lots of liveries over an approximately 40-year timespan. The SR EPBs are not represented either.

Hornby did do a 4 Vep but it was a poor model. An improved version is on the way but I think the ends may still be wrong, which was a character-defining fault with the first attempt (amongst many others).

I would like a 'Tin' Hal but don't see any prospect of one. There were only seven of them, plus the odd 2700.

Although not the most numerous of types, the 4 Cor family would probably do well in terms of sales if a good enough model were made. Timespan is 1937-72.

Even where we have had a good model - the Bachmann 2 Hap, they have shown no sign of doing their model in blue livery, which many carried from the late 1960s through to withdrawal in the early 1980s, or green with yellow panels.

I am lucky enough to have a 4 Cig, which was scratchbuilt by the late Colin Parks using Bachmann Mark 1s as donors and is an excellent model.

P1090137am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Robert,

 

Interestingly, the brake is a BSK, not (by 1963) a BSO.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

After summer 1961, the next ECML book I have is winter 1962-3 and it had changed to a BSO by then.

10 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

I am being a little contentious here but having just finished Tim Hillier-Graves book about Edward Thompson I have to say how much I enjoyed it . I knew nothing of the man except who he was and what he did , also the alleged background to his destruction of Gresleys legacy. 

   I believe he was a pragmatic engineer who reacted to a situation, in a period of great financial restraint  and did the best job he thought possible with what he had.  Dick Hardy is quoted several times in THG's book and Dick Hardy was a man with very good judgement of most things railway. I speak with experience of DH, he was a friend and I worked with men who knew him as a "boss"

   I can also see traits in ET that relate to my own parents and grandparents. And although we were not sent away to public school our upbringing was quite strict and in many ways Victorian, military, do as you are told, do not question my authority, be quiet, think before you speak and say something worth saying.  I expect others can relate too that! 

   I fully realise that THG is putting events and information as he sees it, all I say is read his book. And  I thank THG for taking the time to write about Edward Thompson.

It's an excellent book. Read it alongside his books on Gresley and Peppercorn, which are equally good.

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Robert,

 

Many thanks.

 

I assume the formation and the timings were the same as when the Newton Chambers carriers were introduced in 1961? 

 

It would appear that by 1963, haulage had been taken over by diesels rather than steam. 

 

I've found a shot on the internet showing the A1/1 hauling the northbound service (at York, probably in 1962) but, prior to '63, A3s and A4s seemed most common. I assume Peppercorn's Pacifics hauled it as well?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The summer 1961 book still shows CCTs. I don't have summer 1962.

And the up train in 1963:

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for that, Robert.

 

It's astonishing how shabby the carriers were allowed to get in blue/grey. Every shot I've seen of them in maroon shows them clean. I assume they always worked with passenger-carrying carriages?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I'm not sure but I can only recall seeing in-service photos of them with passenger stock other than when being loaded/unloaded or stabled.

On 03/08/2023 at 08:07, Tony Wright said:

A couple or so more points regarding the 'Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier'............

 

Most of the prototype photographs I have of it show the southbound service, with the passenger accommodation at the rear (four Mk.1s, including a catering car). Does anyone know what these were, please (I don't have the relevant CWNs for the period)? Secondly, did they carry destination boards? 

 

Finally, if £200.00 is the price for a set of three of the Heljan models, what does a Southern Pride kit of one cost, please (if still available)?

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

Any particular year?  This is the down train in the summer of 1963:

6 hours ago, micklner said:

What do the actual ends on the Car Carriers look like ?. Personally I have no idea.

Try this: https://flic.kr/p/6T75af

14 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

As an enthusiast I agree, but when I'm travelling out of necessity, Reading station is a massive improvement on what it used to be and more like a modern European station.  The old layout would never have coped with the passenger flows now - which is one of the major reasons why it was remodelled - and the old footbridge which you could feel wobbling if ten people walked across it at the same time, would probably have collapsed.

The new station works better than the old and the flyover at the west end was also a big change for the better. It's completely characterless though and the 'transfer deck' is awful.

16 October 1965 was the date given by David Percival in his book 'King's Cross Lineside' for the Blue Pullman test run between Leeds and King's Cross. David's photo of it crossing Welwyn Viaduct is on page 694 of Modern Railways December 1965. The accompanying report stated that the set ran from Reddish Depot via Huddersfield, Mirfield, Low Moor and Laisterdyke to Leeds Central. It ran on time to a 2 hour 46 minute schedule up to King's Cross and three minutes longer down, both with a 3 minute stop at Doncaster. The report noted that the BRB was apparently keen to see the sets used on the ER but ER management were less keen due to the limited seating accommodation and high staffing costs.

20 minutes ago, lee74clarke said:

Good Morning Tony,

 

I hope you are well? Think we've mentioned the Blue Pullman through Bytham on here before, the photo I have is dated October 1965, but seem to recall you saying the trees would suggest otherwise. 

I would have thought 6 cars would make it more comparable to The Master Cutler, than a 100mph Deltic hauled service? Did a Brush type 2 hauling six Pullman cars on the Master Cutler get anywhere near 100mph? I doubt it, think they were rated at 90mph, weren't they? Similar for an EE type 4? 

All irrelevant of course, but I always like a 'What if' scenario. 

 

The 6-car sets only seated 132 all in first class. In 1963, the Master Cutler seated 90 second and 64 first.

By 1965-6, it was 64 first and 102 second:

1 minute ago, Geep7 said:

I did a trip back from London to Reading last Friday, probably for the first time since the line was electrified all the way to Reading, and I was shocked by how much has changed. I obviously knew OOC had gone, but I was still surprised by how different it looked. I didn't even recognise Southall as we went flying through, it's changed so much. Such is progress I guess.

Apart from two generations of station building on the south side, Reading is unrecognisable compared to how it was 20 or so years ago.

47816_Reading-_28-8-01 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

Is that so they could spilt the rakes into 2 half rakes?

From the end of the 1960s, the WR went through something of a phase of having brakes coupled together in the middle, most notably on Penzance trains using a pair of BSO 2c. I suspect it was mainly for convenience of loading and unloading the vans but may also have helped at short platforms. A pair of BFKs would have been less common then although a single BFK or a BFK and BSO might also appear in the middle.

D1034_47_Lostwithiel_9-75 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

1 hour ago, MJI said:

I know they had 4 in the 80s including 14152 and 14159.

 

Often found in pairs, in middle of set.

Yes, four BFK 2d are shown as WR in the 1980 RCTS book. 

8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andy,

 

I don't know about a 'reprimand'; if it works, then that's fine, but I know nothing about 'stay-alives', 'frog juicers' or any other items in the paraphernalia associated with DCC mentioned on here of late.

 

I firmly believe in the efficacy of live frogs, and not relying on the switch-rails to transfer electricity on any pointwork. The Code 100 Peco points I used in Bytham's fiddle yards were (ostensibly) 'live-frog', but the wiring suggested seemed, at best, a half-way-house to me. 

 

Thus, I modified them............

 

 

By removing some webbing and permanently bonding (with 30Amp fusewire) the switch rails to the stock rails.

 

 

Then gapping the switch rails, so as to completely isolate the frog.

 

 

Then changing the frog's polarity with micro-switches. 

 

The result is completely-free-from-stuttering-running through the pointwork, using a system I understand.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

The newer Peco points don't need the rails cutting as they are made with a break which is bridged underneath, so you cut that instead. The link between stock rail and blade still needs to be made. The bullhead points dispense with this arrangement and are live both ways. The frog is dead but is metal and can be wired to a switch or, for DCC, a frog juicer.

What micro switches do you use, please?

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Robert,

 

I believe one of the Blue Pullman sets was trialled on the ECML (as a possible substitute for loco-hauled Pullman cars?), but the notion was never taken up because (as you state) the maximum speed was only 90 mph, when the Deltics were going at least ten mph faster, and accelerating more quickly as well. 

 

I've had a shortened set running on Little Bytham..........

 

 

When the train pack was first released, and, believe it or not, running in DCC-mode.

 

 

It was very-attractively packaged.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Not a shortened set but one of the Midland Pullman 6-car, all first class sets. One 6-car set was tried out on the East Coast as you note and the are photos and footage of it.

8 hours ago, MJI said:

That set would also require a 2D

 

108 is 2 FK or FO and a BFK

Good point, I meant 126 first not 108, ie 3xFO. The sets were usually BG, 5 TSO, RB, 3 FO. The WR did not have any 2d BFKs until the late 1970s or early 1980s, I forget when exactly.

47478_Slough_1A42_0945-WSM-Pad_26-9-74 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

The 8-car Blue Pullmans only seated 120 second and 108 first class, so not really enough second class for many trains. After downgrading of some accommodation, the two 6-car sets together only seated 144 first and 120 second. They were non-standard and could only do 90 mph. They required lots of crew and at the time of withdrawal were in need of heavy overhauls. The 6-car sets had been split up in 1971 and mixed in with the 8-car sets. The new Mark 2e/f stock was entering service when they were withdrawn and offered a better ride as well as more accommodation overall. A standard WR Mark 2e/f set of the time seated 126 first and 320 second.

1 hour ago, StephenB said:

Have you ever had HST’s running through Little Bytham?

 

Stephen

If not, it can be arranged.

11 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have a Peco code 100 3 way electrofrog controlled by two Gaugemaster Autofrogs (ref: DCC80). It was dead simple to wire up and works perfectly.

 

Andy

Thanks. 

23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

One A2/1 I forgot to add to my last post..............

 

 

 

Retford's DUKE OF ROTHESAY. Built by Roy Jackson many years ago from a Nu-Cast kit, it first saw service on High Dyke.

 

Because those little footsteps were cast into the footplate at source, they're present. 

 

 

60508 still gives good service after many years. The model must be well over 40 years old now. The Lanarkshire Models lamps are a more recent addition.

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I know - but what was implied in the context of the original question "can frog juicers be used for DC as well as DCC?" and the subsequent discussion is that they were/are devices that automatically switch the frog polarity without the use of a mechanical switch, whether integral with the point motor or not.  They aren't.

I did hear mention somewhere of solid state things existing that work on DC but I have not identified any. The DCC Concepts item about diamond crossing wiring caught my eye as I have a dead frog diamond on my DC layout and have been thinking of relaying with a live frog one but sorting out the switching has rather put me off. In this regard, DCC is much easier.

Now for the revelation: I have begun work on a new layout which will be DCC. It will not replace my existing one - the new one will be much smaller. I plan to use frog juicers throughout but have read of others having problems with Peco 3-way points, of which I have one planned to go in the fiddleyard. All the 'on scene' track will be the new Peco bullhead type, where the points were designed with DCC in mind.

I have no immediate plans to convert my existing, and now rather old and tired, layout to DCC but if I decide at some point to refurbish it, conversion may happen.

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Robert, none of those is a "frog juicer" as the term is generally understood, namely a device that detects a short circuit to trigger a polarity reversal. The diagrams show how to use the internal switches in Cobalt point motors, either digital motors with integral decoders or analogue motors with separate accessory decoders, to change the frog polarity in the conventional way.

 

I remain convinced that there is no such thing as a DC "frog juicer" - although of course, as I say to younger colleagues when trying to develop their critical thinking ability, I'm happy to be proved wrong!

I didn't say they were frog juicers. What I wrote was "I believe DCC Concepts do devices that can help with live frog diamonds on DC layouts." The items referred to are devices and they help with live frog diamonds on a DC layout.