robertcwp

18 hours ago, t-b-g said:

With a full set of friction fit wheels but no problems with quartering, this is the latest from the workbench of Pete Hill (pete55) having a test run on Retford just now.

 

No doubt Pete can explain how it is done mechanically.

 

It is a scratchbuilt NER Class J. We tested it on the Talisman 8 coach set, fully expecting it to struggle a bit and it sailed round at a good speed too.

 

Who needs pacifics when you can have a cute little loco like this?

 

 

 

Very impressive. The train may be only eight carriages but six are heavy metal ones - the other two are a Mailcoach plastic kit.

Retford is a remarkably good test track for EM. Whilst trying to clear out some old magazines to make space, I found a photo of a Kestrel on Retford in an article by Tim Shackleton. And in case anyone is wondering, I mean a model of this:

Kestrel_Cricklewood_12-7-69 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

12 minutes ago, rka said:

Which southern pride coaches are you disposing of? 

None. The scrap ones now minus wheels and in some cases couplings are a few blue/grey, maroon and green Mark 1s. They are a mix of types. I built lots of them in the 1990s. Some have been sold and others were rebuilt with etched sides and are still in service.

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

You mention Tri-ang-Hornby Thompsons; the other day, a friend popped round with some original Bachmann Thompsons (in plain brown). He asked my advice as to how to price them (they were in good condition, but un-boxed), since his club is trying to sell them (for club funds). They'd tried at £15.00 each, with no takers whatsoever. £10.00 had then been tried, but still no takers. In the end, I suggested (at a push) £7.00 each, though they might not sell for that. Two had been altered into catering cars (using Comet sides), but neither was particularly good; I doubt if they'd sell for a fiver each! 

 

I have a growing stock of 'withdrawn' carriages, including some old Southern Pride kit-built printed side Mark 1s and various old Thompson and other obsolete stock. The main issue is that most have very good Romford wheels, which I believe are no longer available. As I don't have old wheels to put in the withdrawn stock, I decided to effectively scrap some of the old stock by recovering re-usable things such as wheels, couplings and in some cases bogies. Each carriage stripped of wheels effectively saves the £6.80 a new set of Gibson wheels would cost for another carriage. I don't need the hassle of trying to sell such stock.

Some years back, I was loaned a large collection of Western Region carriage working books from the 1950s and 1960s which were rescued from a skip at Swindon Works in the 1980s. They had lots of amendments to reflect changes during the timetable, which made them more useful. I was also given those covering the period from 1971 to 1985 (an almost complete set) that were rescued from the same skip. Scans of many of them are now available via my coaching stock group. 

29 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Ian,

 

On many occasions when 'performing' as a demonstrator or loco doctor at shows, 1950s HD locomotives are brought along. Most work (though I don't have a three-rail test track), and some only need a bit of fettling, brush adjustment and oiling to get them running sweetly (via crocodile clips) again; testaments to well-made products.

 

What surprises me is the 'expectation of value' expressed by some of those who bring them. ' It's really old, so must be worth quite a bit' is a frequent comment, as a battered DUCHESS OF MONTROSE is presented. How many DUCHESSES OF MONTROSE (we've discussed the correct plural form before) were made over more than a decade, I wonder? Even 'mint' ones struggle today to make a great deal. 

 

One friend bought loads of second-hand HD so that his children could play with it. It was cheap, extremely robust (far more so than some of today's equivalents - if there are equivalents) and ran forever. As a train set system it was (and still is) perfect for younger modellers - younger ones who grew up and gave it to their own children. Not only that, it was performing the role for which it was made.

 

I never had HD as a boy (my dad was only on a teacher's salary), and my brother and I had Tri-ang; which was OK, but my oldest friend (whose dad was a test pilot) had HD, which was far superior. I 'ruined' its value eventually (it was three-rail) by converting the locos to two rail through insulating the driving wheels one side by the method of sawing through the spokes and plugging the gaps with Araldite

 

One collector of HD managed to obtain over the decades a mint/boxed example of every item ever made at Binns Road. I photographed most of his collection, before he sold it all. Why did he sell it? Because, to him, the 'thrill of the chase' was more important than the acquisition.

 

From what I've heard of late, prices of decent HD items are falling, as the the generation which remembers them most (inevitably) declines.

 

As mentioned, though I never had Hornby Dublo as a boy, I did use some of the firm's products later on - fitting scratch-built frames beneath such things as modified A4 bodies. They even appeared in print! I painted them myself, but all have long gone now.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I cannot now recall from where but a while back I heard that there had been avid collectors of HD who competed against each other and bid up the prices. Several of them passed away and others ceased buying so demand fell and the market was flooded with relatives of the deceased selling off collections. Hence, prices crashed.

2 hours ago, geoff west said:

So Biggleswade 1956 would be fine then. 
Tomorrow’s visit to honest Tone’s could see me leaving with a much lighter wallet again. 

A pair of quad-arts from Ellis Clark Trains will lighten the wallet a bit more!

14 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Roy was happy enough with it to put in a train with his etched carriage kits, where it didn't stand out as being built from a basic and rather old kit, so that was good enough for me.

 

And now it runs with a Bachmann Mark 1 on each end! It compares well.

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

... By the way, I have on video a train running on Retford which contains in it a little-altered original Hornby Gresley - too short, wrong underframe, wrong window arrangements............. I could go on. Hmm.

 

Sandra banished that carriage from the layout a long time ago.  All the old Kitmaster Mark 1s have gone too along with all except one of the old conversions of Tri-ang carriages to Thompson stock. The remaining one is scheduled for withdrawal soon.

Roy did have four of the newer Hornby Gresley carriages on Retford - a full brake, a corridor second (with new underframe) and a couple of brake composites. They were there when Sandra acquired the layout. A few more Hornby Gresleys have gone on since, mainly as a quick way to plug gaps in the stock on the GC, which was very short of carriages. They can in time be replaced by better carriages if anyone is keen enough to provide some. The hybrid SK has already gone as it was in maroon with the awfully prominent lining that Hornby applied.

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

I tried my best to turn a basic kit into a decent model but I clearly failed!

I don't think you failed at all in that quest. I thought the model had etched sides until I picked it up to clean the wheels and put roofboards on it.

I see that Mousa Models list etched sides for an end-door CK.

This is the Gresley carriage on Retford that is built from a Kirk kit, with much modification, which I referred to recently. 

IMG_0390am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Also, as a bonus, here is a short video clip of The Elizabethan.

https://youtu.be/WYFwwE4ZfKI

I buy lots of things on eBay. The odd item here or there turns out not to be a great buy but most are fine. As others note, the key is not to be drawn into bidding wars. Good recent purchases include new, unused crimson and cream Bachmann Thompson carriages (the latest models) for £25 on a buy it now and assorted reasonably priced wagons. 

13 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

There are plenty of converted LNER pacifics on Retford and there have been articles in MRJ about how to go about it. Several use the Brassmaster kits sold for such things.

 

 

Retford is an interesting case study of different ways of doing motive power, ranging from kits old and new (some must date back 40 or more years to Gainsborough Central days and others have been or are in the process of being built by Sandra and Tony so are new to the layout since Sandra acquired it) RTR bodies modified with new frames, mechanism, wheels, etc, including several A4s and B1s, conversions such as 60113 and 60700 and re-gauged RTR still with their original mechanisms, motion and driving wheels, such as two (or more) of the A4s, a WD and a Britannia amongst others. Both the Hornby A4s have been tested on the Elizabethan set, which is 11 carriages of which 10 are metal kits, and they shifted it without difficulty. 

A quiz for any new visitors might be to identify the origin of each engine.

Some of the carriages will catch people out too - spot which Thompson stock is Bachmann and which ones are kits, for example. I didn't realise one of the Gresley carriages (an end-door composite) was a Kirk kit until I picked it up to service it. I thought it had brass sides, like most other Gresley stock on the layout.

The wagons are a diverse bunch too, with lots of RTR amongst the kits of various makes. Sometimes, it's not easy to tell which is which.

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Returning to the O4/8 theme....

 

Does anyone out there have a spare Bachmann B1 body they're prepared to sell me? It can be in any livery, as long as it's complete and not damaged (though just the boiler would do).

 

I've examined the K's parts and already cut out the pieces for the O4/8 cab, but it'll be quicker to use a spare Bachmann B1 for the boiler (I'll not use the Bachmann cab nor footplate, of course). I should be an easy job!

 

Thanks in anticipation. Please PM me if you have, or know of a source. I've seen spare bodies on some stands, but can't remember where or when. 

Several are on eBay. Here is one.

On 23/02/2023 at 21:02, RedgateModels said:

so here’s the chassis in all it’s sorry glory

 

 

I have a 46120 in store as a spare, bought second hand as I thought it was free of the pest. I shall check to see if it is showing signs of problems. I have written off two other Royal Scots and a Patriot already but my other two Scots and a Patriot seem fine. They are 46146, 46165 and 45535. I also have a 45531 which has been rebuilt but it's probably only a matter of time before it fails completely.

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've been taking a few more 'comparative' shots.......

 

 

 

I think a Bachmann Austerity stands up well against a DJH equivalent, especially if one considers the price differential. 

 

I asked £100.00 for the Bachmann Austerity in my last post, and that wouldn't even buy the basic DJH kit; not to mention wheels/motor/gearbox/etc. 

 

As for an O1......

 

 

A Little Engines kit-built one. 

 

 

Compared with an altered Hornby one. 

 

Of course, any 'comparisons' are irrelevant where there is no RTR equivalent.

 

As in the case of..........

 

 

A Little Engines O4/7.

 

 

Or a Little Engines O4/8. 

 

Didn't someone do a resin O4/8 body to go on top of a Bachmann O4 chassis? Does anyone remember, please, because I'd like to do one for Retford..............

 

I've deliberately taken these shots in very tight perspective, because it much-more highlights any discrepancies or 'issues' with these models (though, by the way, 'bendy' footplates were not uncommon on ex-GC 2-8-0s). 

 

Side-on shots are of use, but they don't show bloopers in anywhere near the same detail. But, you need a camera with a lens which will stop down to smaller than F40! 

 

 

These and other comparison shots show how good some RTR models are. Whilst assisting Sandra with Retford, I have occasionally been surprised to find a loco I thought was probably kit-built was in fact RTR, including an A2, A1, Britannia and O4, amongst others. 

The discussion about how to do an O4/8 is interesting. It would be good if Bachmann were to do one but I think it unlikely. Might there be a market for some kind of conversion kit to use with a Bachmann/Replica B1 body? Retford could do with another O4/8 or two.

On 27/02/2023 at 15:28, Robin Fell said:

Please welcome our newest Transport Treasury title:

Devon Transition from Steam

 

Devon is a county where the railway network changed more than most in the Beeching era. A county which had previously been well served by both the Great Western and Southern railways now presented an amount of duplication added to which quaint branch lines served areas of limited population, the latter financially viable for just a few months of the year and associated with tourism. Peak and flows of traffic were not something to be tolerated by Dr Beeching, but the resultant pruning of the network had other unforeseen and less welcome effects that reduced the traffic flow onto the main lines. Add to this the move away from steam and the continual advent of the motor car and the result was a local rail map altered beyond what might anyone could ever likely have perceived. True, some passenger services had already been culled in the 1950s prior to Beeching, Princetown and Ashburton two examples, but when the unthinkable, Padstow, Kingswear, Ilfracombe and then even almost the whole of the Okehampton line was closed, it is small wonder there were those who may have had doubts about where it all might have ended. Within these pages we are delighted to present an exercise in pure nostalgia; an opportunity to sit back and enjoy Devon at its BR peak – a railway network in the early throws of transition.

I have just finished going through this and thought it was very good. 

42 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

If you want magnetic coupling for Bachmann MK1s, then the Hunt Elite couplings work very well with my stock. The length you need is the "close" version, and if you use the stepped version it brings their height down to match other vehicles with Hunt couplings. See here.

I know, I have used lots of Hunt ones on the Mark 1 stock on Retford.

On 18/03/2023 at 21:28, cages_cage said:

How do the R7398 Buckeye magnetic couplings fare between Bachmann Mk1s and Hornby stock? Do they compensate well for the incorrect height of the Bachmann CCMs? Also, is the gap between coaches too large/too small for reliable running?

The Hornby buck-eye magnetic couplings are too short for Bachmann Mark 1s. I tested a long Hornby pipe coupling on one that was coupled to coach with the NEM box at the correct height and it worked on my layout. As well as being at the wrong height, the NEM boxes on Bachmann Mark 1s are a long way back and the shorter version of the Hornby pipe couplings and the buck-eye version are both too short.

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Robert

 

Bachmann Press Release attached might help?

 

Brian

73050 Press Release.pdf 36.65 kB · 55 downloads

I recall this now. Something went wrong between the UK and the factory.

Following up on the 73050 point, here is an image of the engine in preservation:

73050 by Duncan Harris, on Flickr

Note the absence of a handrail at the back of the cab and the presence of one on the front of the tender. This indicates the later cab/tender arrangement, with 73050 being the first to have this. The Bachmann model depicts the earlier arrangement where there was a full height handrail at the back of the cab and no full fall-plate. 

11 hours ago, melmoth said:

 

As Tony said the Bachmann model is of 73050 as preserved. For that matter, it didn't carry the City of Peterborough name under BR ownership.

Did the cab and tender change in preservation?

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

More comparisons............

 

I'm trying not to make any judgements here, just making observations.................

 

 

A Bachmann RTR Austerity as supplied.

 

How it can be made more-realistic after the touch of a master weatherer............

 

 

 

The late Dave Shakespeare's work. 

 

I had a go at weathering a Bachmann Austerity............

 

 

 

Using dry-brush enamels (I don't own an airbrush). 

 

This example actually started off as VULCAN, and replicates the condition I saw her in, at Babworth, in mid-September 1958. We'd been for a family day out in Lincolnshire, and were returning over the Worksop Road Bridge leaving Retford. The Down pegs were off, so dad stopped the car at the end of the ramp. My brother and I rushed to the middle of the bridge to witness a brand new D207 dashing northwards on the afternoon 'Talisman'. A really grubby Austerity was waiting in the Down loop, and, after a short while, it was given the road after the EE Type 4. My brother and I danced for joy when it turned out to be the only namer of the lot! 

 

And, in comparison............

 

 

 

A DJH Austerity. Either Alan Hammet or Tony Geary built this (one of a pair), and it was Tony's property. He weathered it. 

 

I suppose the 'thin' metal edges to the coal space and cab are more-convincing than on the plastic RTR example, and this will certainly pull more. However, the RTR one looks OK on the layout. 

 

BR Standard Fives next..........

 

 

A Bachmann example, representing 73050 in preserved condition. I've fitted all the extra bits to this.

 

 

Contrary to my previous observation, the return crank leans the wrong way on the offside of this Bachmann model. 

 

Without making judgements, I much prefer this one below........

 

 

 

It was built originally by Roy Jackson (in OO) for a chap who subsequently disappeared (never to be heard of again). Roy had also built a 9F for the guy, and, after several years, gave them to me (I'd given him stuff in the past, some of which still runs on Retford). Geoff Kent had painted/weathered it, but its running wasn't very smooth (it had an open-framed motor and straight 40:1 gears). I fitted a DJH combo to give 'perfect' running, and it's a privilege to have it on Little Bytham (it also gets a run on Shap). I also fitted the correct type bogie wheels., It has much more of a 'story' to tell.

 

Why wouldn't I prefer this to an RTR equivalent? It has a real provenance

 

Some more comparisons later.

 

Anyone got any others? 

 

 

Does the Bachmann 73050 have the wrong engine cab/tender? It looks like the early arrangement which went only as far as 73049 if I recall correctly. 73050-64 had the later style with a proper fall plate and 1G/H tenders.

The real 73069 was unlucky not to make it into preservation as it survived until August 1968.

26 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Agree although unfortunately at current prices and given the likely sales potential I doubt a cross country set of any variety is financially viable. But should a manufacturer fancy taking a gamble can we have a Trans Pennine please............ :)

Heljan seem to think a 3-car 104 is viable so there is hope.