159220

On 01/02/2023 at 13:45, Southwich said:

It's always good to have a proper grown up chat about the pros and cons of the models we spend our very hard earned cash on...

 

Kind regards,

 

Will 

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts and the debate around. I feel we have lost something special on RMWeb where we are all just people who love particular things about trains, rather than getting entrenched in manufacture X vs manufacture Y. The simply reality, no matter how much any one company claims, all RTR models are built to a budget with compromises that only they are aware of as to why. It's great to be passionate about striving for the best/definitive models as a reflection on how much we enjoy the prototypes. I do not view model trains like I do when buying a Mac, with Apple you are paying for the best and you utterly trust the brand to deliver you a top rate Mac that money can buy (well I impatiently wait for the new 27"+ iMac for 4 years + now) and as Apple know, if they do not send a Mac that is millimetre perfect I return it until they deliver me one that is...with models, you buy something close and then spend years tweaking it in the reality that no mainstream manufacturer is going to produce an exact/non-compromise replica of the prototype - if you so wish. Well unless you are Norbrass who do, yet you are looking at £1000 +. God no one get ideas and start producing brass exact replicas of UK prototypes! 

All I want to say is thank you for bringing back a passionate discussion about how models compare to the prototype and then how you can spend hours of pleasure making them accurate. Something I thought RMWeb was about and it is a great shame to see anyone talking models these days is instantly attacked for being passionate and knowledgable.  

For the record, I have Bachmann's 37418 in Sound Fitted Deluxe and same with 37175 on order. I am very pleased and frankly do not give a flying pig about cost (if honest, I would like them to go further and proudly say they are paying their factories a living wage and offering employment welfare as well as using sustainable packaging/transport - I'd pay a premium for that!). I have a few Accurascale 37s on order, but if honest I look to future releases from them not because there are no working fans but because the liveries I am most interested in are absent on the 37/4s. Who ever releases 405, 419, 423 or 425 in DRS compass first gets orders. It does not matter who produces them, I can buy them all. Colas is another great example, if Accurascale also release one, I shall buy (as long as the fan works). I, the customer/modeller, win here as I get all the models I want from new tooling that I may choose to improve in the future. Again, I do not care about the price... guess why? It's a hobby! As defined by an activity that you spend disposable income on. Try sailing or owning property aboard, then you'll know about 'cost'! There's more serious things in life to get genuinely grumpy about, model trains is not one! 

On 04/02/2023 at 00:23, 1E BoY said:

We have three English franchises now under Department for Transport (DfT) control operating as Directly Operated Railways (DOR)  - LNER, Northern and South Eastern.  

 

DOR was folded shortly after East Coast Trains Limited (East Coast) ended and the Intercity East Coast Franchise was refranchised and privatised.
 

The current operator of last resort is DfT OLR Holdings Limited (DOHL), though being a publicly owned company is managed privately under contract by Arup, SNC Lavalin and EY. 

6 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

There's definitely at least one 'red' ex-GatEx set in use on Great Northern services

 

I would love Love LOVE the Electrostar in OO! 

As for the red 3872xx’s there’s been quite a lot of action. Currently there are eight red 387s on the GN. 

The re-building of Gatwick Airport saw limited capacity on the BML. This lead to a number of 3872xx being surplus to requirement, at a similar time, GN withdrew it’s 365s and Hitachi went crack…so…

387201-206 were initially taken up to Hornsey for GN, yet as soon as this happened…we had McVitties making a mess on the GWR. 201-206 were subsequently transferred to GWR, along with 301, 302 & 306 from C2C. 

GN still had a need under the covid timetable, to cover for the loss of the 365s and thus 207, 208 & 209 were taken up to GN and re-branded with GN stickers and a wording of ‘GN operated by Gatwick Express’. Only these three had this hybrid brand...well 201 does too...but more on that later (technically there are 'only three').

Biscuit sales on the GWR didn’t last long and by the end of 2021 the six Gatwick Express 387s were back on the GN, all be it in total debranded state…

The ex-C2C 387/3s are now to transfer to GN (most in service with a couple stored), allowing for 201-209 to move back to Southern for a uptick with BML services in early 2023 (subject to Gatwick project timing). 209 has already gone back to Southern with the rest expected to follow as required, but 201 is staying with GN for a long term loan - hence the 'operated by GatEx', to cover for the loss of 387/1s during the ‘Project Aurora’.  

Fun does not stop there, before covid there was a clear cascade plan between the 455s>379s>387s but this is all now in tatters. One thing for sure, we shall see more liveries and brands on the 387s (and the 379s for that matter). And yes the maths doesn't fully add up above, welcome to the MDR! 

God what a perfect unit to choose to model! 

Well if we are allowed to wishlist... I'd really like to see the First Great Western local lines on both the Bachmann 150/2 and 158. 

18 hours ago, James Makin said:

Hornby saying FGW 'Fag Packet' can't be done as tampo printing...time to up their game and invest in some new technology to keep pace with competitors..!

I am not one to shy away from saying how uninterested Hornby are in the area of the hobby that interests me, but, I do have to correct where I see some untruth.

The Bachmann/Rails of Sheffield 47 is not tampo, but using Bachmann's 'ink jet' printing with a tampo printed outlay. Bachmann first used this on the London Transport Museum 66/7s back in 2015. But, it appears to have been introduced to the UK market by Hornby back in 2013 with the ex-Modelzone concessions exclusive FGW Mk3s R4369A, R4370A & R4370B. The most recent use of this ink jet printing by Hornby appears to be on their class 91 'For the Fallen'. 

I do feel their use of waterslide decal sheets to be rather disappointing (only because I can buy better from Railtec), but, it was well received when they first introduced the 'technology' on the 'exclusive' Drax IIA biomass hoppers back in 2016. And I shall admit it worked rather well on the Hitachi T2 (800002) limited edition where the livery was a combination of the waterslide decal sheet and tampo printing. I fear, as no one objected at the time to these (and I have seen many on RMWeb complain about the livery appearance on 91111. Though interestingly a former exclusive HST for Locomotion in the form of 'Harry Patch', used the same ink jet technique of the 91 and was warmly welcomed by the hobby...), Hornby feel the hobby welcomes the technique and has expanded it's use. But I suspect, much like @PeterStiles above, that it comes down to budget! 

It appears the thoughts on various techniques to apply a livery have come and gone out of favour, whether Hornby are following customer feedback (which might include the lack of sales on certain techniques) or are following budgets (ink jet printing takes time and thus it shall increase costs)...whatever they do use, seems to be heavily criticised on here. What is clear though, Hornby is the first to bring any of these techniques to the UK railway hobby market and I at least admire that (even if I choose to not buy. I would be bonkers to buy a HST or Mk3 seeing that even SK has said a competitor are going to release them...bring on the <insert Bachmann, Rapido, Heljan, Dapol etc> Mk3!). 

Anyway, I am no way defending or supporting Hornby here. Just, I like to have a factual discussion based on historical evidence. It does not matter if you have the latest and best technology to produce a model if you lack the expertise to execute it! 

4 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Sad to see 37409 being put on the disposals list by DRS.

Needs a new (rebuilt) power unit, DRS's policy is when a 37 goes pop...it is popped onto the for-sale list. 

409 had an F exam in spring 2018, if a new owner can swap in a power unit , you can see 409 returning for a while! 

1 hour ago, Martin_R said:

My guess part of tomorrow’s announcement will be an all new class 37 to the same standard as the class 47 including DRS Wipac light versions all due to arrive in the next few weeks……..

Wallets at the ready!!! 

I am more keen for the new UniOcean and Cosco 40 HCs. 

If brown, we have never had a decent Beacon, Triton or Tex in OO! 

In HO, I have been spoilt for containers (PTTrains) so very keen to buy multiple OO. Intermodel is the way the railway is going! 

I'd really like to see an OO 91 back on the cards! I must have pre-ordered and then cancelled the Hornby one several times and having seen them in a shop last week...thank god I finally decided not to buy the Hornby one. What a disappointment for £220! Not even a working pantograph, never mind questionable QC with the liveries. Plus it just feels like something is missing and on inspection, a lot of the ultra detail expected for £220 is missing. Come on Cavalex, turn your beautiful CAD in to a high end 91! 

Fantastic! I asked this on a thread below a few days ago. 

Fingers crossed for a 'modern' DRS Compass 47818 and a super modern GBRf example. Some Anglia Mk2Fs and the biggest recent omission, a DRS DBSO! We haven't had a re-run of the class 158/159 in a long time! 

Stumbled upon this, looks just perfect! Hoping for an Accurascale DRS Compass 37423 and a Bachmann DRS Compass 47818 to be announced to run with her! Bachmann's 37409 shall do for now! 

Do we have a date for the new announcements? I am going to assume this coming Wednesday? 

4 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

Also what livery did it carry from 1994 - 2002? There is nothing mentioned on Hattons webpage for that time period.

NSE. It was sold to VOSE in 1996 and was laid up. Sad sight of her in 1999:

https://www.departmentals.com/photo/975025b

I would be rather suspicious of that Hatton’s link as there is a series of incorrect pieces of information. 

Most of the amusement can be found on the 'Real Vehicle Profile' link. Where does Hatton's get their historian from? The English is just awful for the whole paragraph.

1. The entire point of the inspection saloon is to be used as a 'VIP excursion' train (General Managers), not just for 'several times'. It's secondary role has always been line inspections (Chief Engineer). Revolution had two extensive articles in Railway Modeller about this, with interviews from BR legends to today's Network Rail top brass.
2. S60755 was inserted into Hastings Unit 6B '1031', not 1036 (did not become Class 203 until 1973 on the introduction of TOPS, long after the buffet had been removed!). Impossible to be 1036 as her buffet, S60756, remained in service until October 1980!
3. 're-numbered 975025 in 1978'. Comical! S60755, following its conversion, became GM&CE TDB975025 in 1969 as the inspection saloon. Technically re-numbered to 975025 when re-introduced by Fragonset/Serco Railtest in 2003. 
4. 'As of 2012 the saloon had push-pull train controls for a period of several decades'. I am sure you see the mistake there, 2012-2022 is a single decade. But the glaring error is to suggest that randomly in 2012 the inspection saloon was finally push-pull capable?! It has operated push-pull since conversion in 1969! Where did 2012 come from? Did they mean it's rebuild in 2007/08 to be fitted with locomotive push-pull control (bluestar)?
5. Driving van trailer? Do they mean the Mk3 DVT, designed and built decades after the inspection saloon? What are they on about?
6. BR Eastleigh Works built locomotives! The Eastleigh Carriage Works built coaches, including S60755, which was then fitted out in Lancing Carriage Works.  
7. Operated by Vista Westlink Rail? What? Just no! British Railways, Network SouthEast, Fragonset, Serco Railtest and Network Rail. 

So with all that non-factional information, I hardly would believe anything Hatton's say. But then, trawling through information online...nothing is mentioned about DCC pins directly. But respectable press outlets and retailers who are actually stocking the model all say 21-pin. 

On 05/03/2022 at 18:20, gridwatcher said:

we were bidding against each other..... nice to know we are all a bit mad!

I had wondered who the competition was, first time auction buyer too. I didn’t attend live but made pre auction bids including a mad moment of £1019 for S1019 (Armando made it very clear to me the Somefames were a one off, so how do you price something priceless)! When I want something, I want it! Now I want to actually own 1408 when replaced by the Flirts in 2023… wonder how much that shall cost hahaha

On 30/11/2021 at 23:29, 159220 said:

Anyone on the PT HO downlow might be able to give me a nudge to where I might source a single Sorefame split specifically from S1019. 

On 02/02/2022 at 22:57, sjp23480 said:

@gridwatcherCame across these on the saleroom auction site today, not sure if it is of interest you?  There may be other CP stuff, these were the only ones I saw.

 

You legend @sjp23480! I have sourced S1019 for a mere £140! I would have been willing to pay £500 or €600. Picked up several other CP items at bargain prices. Temped to sell to the various shops in PT now, as the prices they command for second hand is insane! Thank you! 

17 hours ago, sanspareil said:

PS to mention a previous poster, I am told model trains cost a lot these days, try sailing as a hobby! Its more the steep continual rises in prices that i think most people find the issue/genuine worry (especially for the less affluent who are being increasingly shut out of a hobby they once could afford - you generally find the more affluent have little patience with those who show real concern). I am in to several other hobbies and whilst they have seen cost increases nothing comes close to that of model railways.

Nothing comes close to model railways increase?! We were looking at the stunning new Najad 395AC when launched in 2018 at £305,000. Of course, a yacht is a love project so we did not sell to buy this, checking recently as the Najad agent is still trying his charm, you are looking at the same yacht new for £590,000. Saying that, other “hobbies” have significantly reduced, I have picked up Club World flights to Brazil and Canada for over half the usual price. Model railway prices are drop in the ocean in terms of salary to the majority of people who I know actually enjoy it rather than come on here and winge about price (which I suspect they never did enjoyed the hobby). 

On 08/02/2022 at 09:33, Andy Mac said:

I think if Accurascale made the announcement today about starting the development of the Mk5’s, then the prices would be a bit higher…. They would have based their prices on what the costs to produce were a couple of years ago.

On 08/02/2022 at 10:09, McC said:

Perhaps our next, new tooled announcement in a couple weeks will be educational.

Sorry, but who needs an education? The forum is becoming increasingly tiring to read with a small group of posters continually repeating their issues with price. So I am going to start posting I do not care about price! The Bachmann RTOV/DBSO looks great. 

If I like something, I buy it. I wanted the RTOV so I bought the RTOV. If I want the next Accurascale tooling, I shall buy it (something tells me I shall be buying a lot more Accurascale and Bachmann as they are both producing quality modern models). What is important, no it is critical, is that manufacturers striving to offer the best possible detail/accuracy and include 'value for money' features such as CDL on the RTOV/DBSO.

I am told you can buy a laptop for less than £200, I only ever buy Mac.

I am told you can buy your weekly shop in Lidi, I only go to Waitrose & farmer's market/shop.

I am told you can fly to Barcelona for £9.99 with Ryanair, I rather go BA Club Europe.

I am told model trains cost a lot these days, try sailing as a hobby!

A hobby is for someone who takes part for enjoyment. We decide to do things in our spare time, that brings us enjoyment. It is not about cost, but pleasure. The silent majority out here, buy models as they want models. They buy from a shop, where they like the owner/staff who give great customer service. Model manufactures are businesses. Whether Bachmann, Accurascale or Hornby, they exist to make a profit and shall charge the price they want. As a customer, it is for me/us to decide what I/you want. Can this forum please move on from education on price and just enjoy it for what it is... some wonderfully fantastic, ultra high detail models that give us hours of enjoyment!! 

On 10/02/2022 at 21:39, CB Rail said:

Hi All,

Can anyone confirm if the latest Yeoman hoppers have the same running numbers as the original batch.

Thanks in advance.

Check page 126 of the Dapol Catalogue for wagon numbers.... 

http://www.Dapol.co.uk/Catalogue/126/index.html

12 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

More likely a JGA given nobody has done one.

?? 

Bachmann and Cavalex have produced/are producing particular types of JGAs.

I have just picked up a bargain on the CrossCountry MK3 Sliding Doors with Rainbow Railways at £22 each. Have the Sliding Doors not been popular? What are peoples thoughts?

Personally, for a new tool coach I am disappointed they do not offer DCC with central door locking lights - got to love those Bachmann Mk2Fs! 

Would owners know whether the release has an 8-pin or 21-pin socket? I note Hornby.com has removed all DCC references and the catalogue in Smiths today suggests it is 21-pin?!

Any update on when the GWR Class 143 shall be available to pre-order. I am concerned I shall miss the release and miss out on one. Limited to 150, its going to be more dog eat dog than those biomass hoppers...

Been enjoying the annual Hornbyfest, I’m sure like others, you’ve asked around to work out what’s happening.

I’ve been told by multiples that Tier 1/2 retailers have until next week to confirm their orders and they won’t know of their final allocations until that time. Tier 3 won’t be able to confirm until end of the month. Sadly it appears to be pushing more customers directly to Hornby.com. This is not good as rather than a third of the price/money going to local shops it is finding its way to Hornby’s main shareholder (not difficult to guess who).

I’m surprised this forum has a short memory on the Biomass wagons. When originally released they were a corporate commission by Drax directly. A production run of 1000 per livery (two in total) was split between 500 for Drax and 500 released to the jolly public with Hattons being the selected retailer.

As Drax commissioned them, they would own the tooling. It appears now, Hornby have come to some terms with Drax to make a limited general release, they have ensured these are again limited (I’ve seen 500 each put around). I suspect the price is “cheaper” as the general sale last time covered the tooling and production costs for the 1000 given to clients. I am rather surprised these were not a Hornby.com exclusive as “500” spread out over hundreds of retailers was only a recipe for disaster.

Moving on, I was intrigued by a comment above about how much a Rmweber has on pre-order. Like many, I thought to quickly tally up my figures. I was rather shocked to see Hornby coming out at number one. Only because there’s far better, more accurate manufacturers out there… yet somehow Hornby is getting the biggest percentage of my modelling cash (though I suspect Bachmann would be first if we knew what they had planned for 2022 and beyond…). I do wonder as much as we laugh at Hornby’s shortcomings on here and shout vocally in favour of the detailed chosen ones…Hornby is rather good as a company in painlessly extracting cash. I kinda of admire it.

BBC pay scale structure below -

Hornby 3000-3500 (might be more if the competition to the HST turns out to be a ruse)

Revolution 1500-2000

Dapol 500-1000

Accurascale 500-1000

Cavalex TBC 1-500 (based on 56 price)

Bachmann 0 (I am certain this shall fluctuate every 3 months)

Of course, these are not factually accurate figures as only Hornby announces once a year, so a more realistic tally would be of what I actually had delivered in 2021

Bachmann 2000-2500

Revolution 500-1000

Dapol 1-500

Hornby 1-500

Accurascale 1-500

Heljan 1-500

EFE 1-500

Cavalex 0

Which kinda now ruins my surprise for so much spend on Hornby, as Bachmann do well out of me too!

Still, I’d love to hear of other modellers pre-order splits?!

Not seen much discussion on the move to 21-pin DCC - hoorah! Who also hopes the next Hitachi AT300s and Class 91 come with working pantographs?