coline33

If the ship is about to sail in then do not forget the bollards!

Understanding CP boundaries and the politics are probably simpler now than in 1940.

The ECC/ECCI greys and reds built at end of 1920's taken over by BR in 1948 and seen to be repainted into BR livery and replaced by the 1/051s during the 1950s.

Don't worry, SMET's so called 'Mitcham depot', a phrase used in some London tramway history books and articles, was in the County Borough of Croydon and not in the Mitcham UDC area. It closed from normal operation about 1928 but when LPTB reopened it about 1935 they had the sense to rename it 'Croydon depot'. However, this was not because of any geographic correction but to ensure that George Cohen's scrapmen did not get off the tram on the wrong side of Mitcham Common! Move forward to the 1990's that structure was still in Aurelia Road when the present day Croydon depot was built at the end of Therapia Lane which faced Aurelia Road across Mitcham Road, Croydon. Long live Bermondsey depot!

The coal was basically steam for the boilers and domestic for heating. The largest company ECCI had their own power station central to serving all their Cornwall sites including port installations. So whereas steam coal was in the 19th and early half 20th centuries brought from South Wales to Newquay and Charlestown and railed to the various sites owned by the then individual companies, gradually with amalgamation of companies, centralisation grew under ECC/ECCI and it developed its own large fleet of PO's just for coal (painted grey) as well as its large fleet of PO's just for clay (painted red) to avoid contamination of the clay. Naturally coal was also delivered by 'mainline company' and then BR wagons - BR of course took over the ECCI POs renumbering them in the P-series although some wagons taken over from other private clay companies have been found to keep their original numbers presumably as they were only fit for scrap!!! Photos of ECCI's coal wagons have been taken on LNER/BR(E) lines as well as GWR/BR(W) lines. ECCI also had china clay works and pits in south Devon. Ball clay operations were to be found in north Devon and in Dorset. Hope this 'bones' reply helps.

Do not forget the coal traffic to the china/ball clay industries, it did not all come in by sea.

Looks a great background. For a Lancashire coast location you could have gone in for dunes. I still have to get down to Camber itself to get the actual sand I want to finish the background to my East Quay line - a section is looking naff with just the used toilet roll supports in place!!!

Paul, don't forget the lifebelts! I had to pass a 50 yard swimming test to be employed by the PLA whether I was in the docks or on the river, so I doubt whether your men do!!! Suppose the nearest 'B' but to you on the coast is Blackpool so is there any place name beginning with 'B' on the Wyre or the Lune? Just a name not an actual harbour.

"Bare Empty Sheds" gives the insight into Clapham depot by a member of the staff. Very interesting reading. I leave my mail on the mat for 3 days before carefully picking up and opening with a knife and allowing my wife to remove the contents without touching the envelope/packaging which goes straight into the wheelie bins. Looking at a side view of the Broadway Battleship, it is the Brill mech and truck side that is definitively the best for Cissie. Now if you use the Brill on the LUT car then discard the truck sides and renumber the car 395 as that car was fitted with monomotor inside bearing trucks as an experiment from build until LPTB days.

Lovely dock layout. Is that the Hornby PLA 74 loco? If so, see Steve's workbench thread for repainting wagons to PLA livery.

Tony. Sunderland 100. If your mech came from the Bachmann Brill then you could reinsert those truck sides. There really is not a great deal of difference that would be noticeable. After all Spencer went to the States to get ideas and as Cissie is a Feltham-ised version of New York Railway's Broadway Battleship which was probably on Brills anyway! Colin.

The thing about LCC traversers is that they were that they just took the production Felthams total wheel base so you seem to have plenty room to reduce overshooting!!! The length of the Feltham was the initial problem on the Streatham traversers as the roof stantions prevented the sideways movement. Thus the roof stantions of the traverser halls had to be relocated further away. This is why scrapping at BH was moved to a hastily reopened depot in Aurelia Road (often called Mitcham depot as it was off Mitcham Road) which LPTB had to rename Croydon Depot so that Cohen's men knew that they had to stay on the tram over Mitcham Common and not get off before, when going south! That traverser looks very good.

No, Tony, Sunderland 100 was Cissie not Blossom. Blossom was 'MET Experimental Car No.1' and Cissie 'MET Experimental Car No.3'. It was Cissie that could not take a plough carrier but then it was built not for the through MET services into London which required the plough. Cissie was a 70 seater high standing capacity car for shifting rush hour loadings when Golders Green was the end of the Tube to Finchley Central, North Finchley and Whetstone. All you need for Cissie are the truck sides so I will see if what is the nearest casting available to suit. Cissie today is still on her London trucks which BR Engineering did a marvellous job overhauling them for Crich.

Sunderland 100 just needs the truck sides. After all its prototype was built 6 years before the first North American PCC car hit the New York streets with those inside bearing looking trucks which first saw the UK light of day in post WW2 Blackpool. The mechs under the LPTB 2104 would be ideal if you made the body of Blossom 2166 (as per mine attached which has to lose the vent panel by the stair window) and mounted it on them. Blossom was finally towed all the way from Manor House change-pit, through the Kingsway Subway to Charlton CRD via Kennington, Camberwell and New Cross. Yes, the GM T&T in 1936 had no intention of scrapping it when he was instructed to dispose of all non-standard trams. Alas the cost of mounting it on Bluebell 2255's trucks killed the attempt. Had it been me I would have left it as it was and fitted a plough carrier and sent it to Streatham knowing that the number of depot tracks it could only use there for maintenance was very limited because the overall length between outer wheel sets was just longer than the traversers there could take. Being an air braked four motor it could have joined Bluebird, also an air braked four motor, which would have given greater use of the four drivers who had to be specially trained and licensed to drive four motored cars. However, I would have stabled it in BH with it only to Telford Avenue for routine maintenance.

Sorry, I missed out that the original OOC Felthams had the trolley poles hooked to the side but the MET one was corrected to be hooked at the centre.

Pictures of completed Tower Felthams always causes me to flitch! Having produced for David Boyle the correct drawings in 4mm. scale from drawings loaned by LT, I see the imperfections that occurred in the mould making process that became too expensive for him at that stage to have corrected. Fortunately when I heard through ModelZone that OOC were going to produce their version based on making up a Tower kit they relayed my criticism and the headlamp was correctly positioned and the curvature of the lower waist skirts was corrected. Then the only fault in the original run of OOC Felthams was the false step marking appearing at the bottom of the front-exit door! A word via ModelZone saw the retool for a flush door but this modification was only applied to the MET Feltham before cessation of production. So if you are buying an Atlas Feltham, which used the same moulds, just check that the front-exit door is completely flush to the bottom!

I must admit that I cannot recall BH having them as it was built only for open top trailer cars. Telford provided the towing cars although it was to become an annex to Telford Avenue (especially after transfer in of the Felthams) as well as a scrap-yard and store. Certainly all ex-LCC mainstream electric depots had them so do not worry about BH.

To all you railway modellers looking for something a bit different to add statically or running in lock-down, how about a tramway? No you do not have to have overhead if your location coincides with those systems without them. After all Blackpool's electric tram system started in the 19th century without wires! I could not even see streetcars on Rod Stewart's 1940's layout so there is something different for him to do! Well it is just a thought that has started to catch on in lock-down by the enquiries I am getting on London.

Tony, can I have your permission to copy these views of your earlier line as I do maintain a pictorial record of London tram layouts in 4mm. scale, please? Do you have any more, please? It provides a selection of pictures for use in the T&LRS National Model Tram Collection currently housed on the Heaton Park Tramway in Manchester. I would need full name, etc., to go with them so please contact me direct. Ray, one hopes the MBF may be a possibility for the buses then of course there is the rail. I did not mention the tree lopper as London trams, with few exceptions like the Embankment, ran in the middle of the road!!! John Howe of Kingsway is the only one who I know has modelled the Embankment at Waterloo Bridge for the Subway. I had drawn up a circular layout so to model the section between Waterloo and Charing Cross bridges as this section is very nostalgic to me. My mother left me there with a packed lunch when she had to work in central London during my primary school holidays. Little did I know that I was later going to be responsible for the river accommodations on that Thames reach to the extent that I had to battle with my boss to get PLA approval to moor London's first floating restaurant at Charing Cross!!! It was a good place to watch the trams, trains and boats. Agree with your comment on D&S who if my memory serves me right, produced the etched Wisbech & Upwell passenger stock which is now sorely missed with the release of the Model Rail J70s.

Ray, you have by now probably got the reply I gave you on the "Brixton Hill Tram Depot" thread. Colin.

Ray, to sort out some confusion over BEC-Kits. When Frank finally retired and BEC Models ended, the white metal kits were divided. The British outline BEC and BEC/ABS} went to Adrian Swain and the continentals went to Brian Robinson. Adrian commenced ABS Models as his trading name whilst Brian took over the name of BEC-Kits. Brian's website is <bec-kits.co.uk> and still functions and his latest advert confirms "reduced service until July 2020 whilst away teaching and tram riding in Prague". David Boyle of Tower Models introduced his range of plastic kits under the name of Tower. When David decided to concentrate on O-gauge, he sold the tram kit side to Brian. Now the transfer of the ABS tram business to KW Trams comprises ABS (tram and road vehicles but not buses), BEC-Kits (British), BEC/ABS, Anbrico, MTS and Varney. When Adrian's health prevented him attending exhibitions KW Trams came to his aid in advertising and selling on Adrian's behalf. You will be pleased to know that the ABS London Mercury tower wagon in the RoadScene series has gone to KW Trams! The best London tram transfer sheets (pre WW2) are to be found on Brian's website - Peter Clapham reproduced them from the data I gave him for David Boyle. Colin.

Ray, I have just gone through the KW Trams OO gauge section and the only reference to Tower kits is in respect of secondhand items. Certainly there has been no mention of Tower as Brian Robinson has continued to advertise these but pointing out that he continues to be out of the country on his full time teaching contract, Brian was expected back in business here this summer but that too may be delayed by the virus. Colin.

That fine, Tony, I now know exactly the concept. I was tempted to do likewise when I got the OOC Cissie but my necessity to have conduit fitted cars prevented me from testing when stripping down a Brill to make a H0 continental car - yes I have a fleet of those as well as some American RTR trams!!! One day I even find the time and space to finish my H0 and H0m tram layouts!!! Colin.

Tony, what Bachmann mechs have you used in Felthams, please? I know BEC/KW Trams produced the kits to motorise the OOC Felthams and Cissie but I did not like the lost of the lower deck, which was also a point about the mechs in the Feltham BEC Kit No.14. So your use of Bachmann interests me. The point about harshness of track on trams at "West Croydon" is the constant crossing and recrossing of that junction!!! Colin.

Yes, Ray, Convoys was a paper importing wharf until Murdoch found a purchaser to convert it into a general purpose and Ro/Ro wharf to which a close work colleague of mine then became its Managing Director and turned it round. Like everything else business, transportation routing, etc. changes. The freed-up water space has become the Greenwich Cruise Terminal with possibly the tightest river pollution control regulations in the world!!!