coline33

Yes, I have been following you on SI Modelling and like the work you have been doing on the signals - great. I recognised the Ratio basis from which I have loved scratch-building specific signals. Thanks for recommending Yellow which as you know from trolleybuses is often the colour that white upper deck ceilings go from the effects of smoking. I can always remember on the RT buses on the 64 that replaced the 630, how their ceiling got yellower and on wet days the nicotine was dripping from them. If you ever lean to the right so away from trolleybuses then I hope you will be on trams!!! All the best, Colin.

Tower E/1 kit - part 3 - the upper ends. In part 2 any changes to the roof should await this stage where it is vital to decide on which E/1 variant is to be modelled. The ex-LCC first series had single trolleys except for 1366-9, 1371-2, 1374-1400 which had double trolleys as per the roof layout shown. It was not until after LPTB took over that the domed roof cars (1103, 1260, 1370 and 1373) and those also with inset destination displays came with the "Rehabilitation " programme. However, the "Rehabs" will be the subject of another series altogether. I have taken two attached views of my upgrading. From the first (view b) can be seen the work required to fashion the ends to suit the variants. From left to right are 1) the unchanged end for cars 375-399 and 2042-2061. The middle end has been altered for cars 81-100 and 1727-1851, the former will eventually require a 'East Ham' box fitted. That on the right is altered for cars 751-1426 and 1477-1676. I found that the large stencil box was easily cut out with a blading following the top and side edges of the box from behind. For the 'East Ham' box it could be produced by removing the lower half of the large stencil box. The second (view c) shows the method I used to give the framed opening vent windows first drawn out on paper, glazed area removed and glued to the inside. In cutting round the outline I left the top part as a tag to assist in positioning when glued. Again from left to right, the first end shows the tag left whilst drying and the second after being cut off. The third shows the side vent window 'framed' whilst the remaining two show the middle vent window. Like for the side vent windows, the frame outline includes the top, side and bottom window bar positions and is cut out and affixed in the same way. Once dry and the tag removed, then the window bar can be added at the bottom of the vent window frame as shown. The first two ends have the unaltered incorrect shaped destination boxes. It is a pity that they were moulded to the bottom of the end when in reality that was no so but will have to be accepted if major surgery is to be avoided. The boxes on the third and fourth ends have had their top inset areas filed flat and card inserted across to give the best appearance of the standard wooden box. To this can be added the 'three code' discs if on the chosen prototype. The box on the fifth one has had that inset panel filed to taper upwards and card affixed across it while the remainder of the box has be filed to taper downwards until there is no ridge to give the K-ray style of metal destination box also found as replacements on the E/1 family. To finish the K-ray box all that is need is a careful paint but painting will be a later subject. I have deliberately ignored Classes ME/1 and ME/3 as these bodies rebuilt from Class M cars have bodywork dimensions slightly different to the E/1s. I hope the above helps in deciding which car to build - if still in doubt do not hesitate to ask, only too happy to help.

Tower E/1 kit - part 2 - the roof. With small scale modelling we tend to be looking down on roofs! So the BEC and ABS kits made the roof detail to be of importance. Alas I found that David Brewer had assessed the detail from the Roche drawing when he introduced his new range of plastic kits when he could have copied that on the BEC E/1 which had come from photographs. (The roof of the subsequent Feltham kit followed that of the BEC kit.) Here in the view I use the roof I have made from the Alphagraphix card kit (scaled down from 7mm.) as the layout for the trolley planks and walkways (for double trolleys) plus the lamp covers. Omitted are the lightning arrestor boxes which are very small and trolley hooks, for the latter it is best to follow a prototype car. As can be seen the Tower roof has twelve lamp covers but not in the correct location so it is a question of 1) accepting it, 2) filing off the covers and trolley pole locations and making replacements discs, 3) using the Alphagraphix roof, or 4) scratch-building a new roof. I must admit that I went for 1) for 2054 but for 1506 I will go for 3) as the base and build up the individual covers, placing the single trolley plank centrally. Mind you I might well change further when it comes to building 390 and 391! Now on to the trolley pole locations. Those on the Tower roof are wrong for the E/1 generally so with the lack of a clear photo of the roof of the nine ex-Walthamstows (usually found in Embankment views taken from the Thames bridges!) cannot be ruled out for 2054-2061. Otherwise for the E/1 family, single and double trolleys were centrally located. Naturally the trolley plank for a single trolley was along the lengthwise centre line with the double trolleys in line with each other as shown. 1), 2), 3) or 4), the decision is yours as to how you feel best to improve it for your needs. In the view I show how I added the ceiling detail from the Alphagraphix card kit plus my experiments in using the redundant lower saloon single seats for the larger type of ticket box that was introduced by LPTB on some cars - just a thought! I trust this 'food for thought' approach suits and is welcome as this is the manner in which I intend to continue.

Engineer's LUT top covered car looks great, the illumination shows up those ducts through which the upper deck sweepings went out. Tony, I agree the headlamp screw fixing on the OOC/Atlas Feltham is a problem but not just to have a working headlamp for pre-WW2 days but also having to alter the fitting to add the shields for wartime and post-war periods. I hope no one thinks I am going to give a Masterclass like those in Model Rail!!! All I shall do is draw to attention those aspects to consider when using each part and the decisions that have to be made. I am sure that you all are better modellers than I. The basic reason that I have modelled trams in 4mm. scale is not the cars themselves but to present a layout where the operation can be modelledas with "West Croydon". It was the well managed operation of the London tram system, despite its neglect, that will always stand out from my youth with the 16/18.

There have been 4mm. scale card kits for Bluebell in MET livery, Type T in LUT livery, West Ham 4 wheel balcony in LPTB livery and Class HR/2 in LTE livery. As I have a photo of a Type U in LUT livery built from a card kit, I very much would like to know if it was in the Alphagraphix 4mm. range? It is one that I would like to have. As to track, well all the sections for a double tracked oval just await painting, rail threading, detailing the conduit hatches, etc., fixing to the board and wiring up. Next week is supposed to be blazing hot so I may well gravitate to the garage to work on it. In the meantime, here is some more from my spares boxes which will form the platforms for a Tower kit to give E/1 1506 prior to its rehabilitation in 1936. I do have probably the most complete histories of individual London electric trams from build to end. So if anyone is modelling a specific car just let me know the number and if relevant the pre-1933 system.

Tony, fettling an existing chassis and creating a new mould is one of the options but currently confirmation is awaited on the production of a completely new such motor bogie. Ray, having put Type T on hold I have delved into my spares boxes looking for a replacement to do whilst paint/glue sets on forthcoming Tower cars. I attach a view of some of the parts cut and awaiting cutting to continue to produce a second series E/1. Yes, it is from one of two 7mm. scale card kit packs by Alphagraphix. I understand that these two packs have not been available for some two decades but a 'Rehab' conversion pack (the second one) is currently available in the '2nd' section of the KW Trams website. Last century I purchased both packs and scanned and printed them to 4mm. scale as an experiment. My testing of assembling the parts went well but other duties then intervened and all went into the spares department without being strengthened. However, with restarting the Tower E/1 construction, I have used some of the internal printed detail in the card kit to line the interior of certain Tower parts which will appear in the relevant texts. So if anyone is taken by this method then I do recommend looking out for any secondhand and purchasing the main card kit at least. The 'Rehab' pack is of limited use without the main pack unless you are intent on having an E/1R which I will cover in due course.

Thanks, Tony, I knew you would enjoy "Bare Empty Sheds" being from someone who was there at the time like recalling Stan Collins life in "The Wheels Used to Talk to Us". There some interesting livery experiments and one that alas did not reach BH was the LPTB experiments with the Feltham cab roof colour on the ex-MET ones whilst still in north London which were not adopted and original colour restored before coming south side. Now an update on my Type T renovation. In looking at motorising, I intend to use my 'plug system' but for this car it will be a one-off due to the construction method I used for the platform frames. Then when it comes to Brill 22E trucks they are (and not just for London) of 4' w/b and the available trucksides are for this. However, the current shortest RTR bogie mechs are for 4'6" which will cause conflict with a correct sized dog guard. Whilst scratch-building a BEC style mech or even a chassis with a central motor with flexible drive seems the only solution at present, I find on enquiry that it is in the mind of a commercial producer to develop such a motor bogie. So whilst I am awaiting confirmation of this and the effect on affixing to my lower deck, I am holding off. Once I see the way ahead I will revert as to how I am going to proceed.

Interesting view of Holloway depot - when did they anticipate the trams returning??? At least the planned extension of the Cross River Tram to Streatham could have used BH! Thanks for the views of WC in 2015, that is John Clarke you caught in the corner so I am passing it on to him. What no views of me!!! Ray, the amount of Tower parts I literally throw away would overwhelm my spares box and I would never have any further use for them anyway! Next part will be about the roof sprue.

Tower E/1 kit - part 1 - the start. When I open a box I sort out just what parts I need. As I will motorise, out goes the lower deck floor. To help with weight and finish, I replace the plastic stair parts by a white-metal 90 degree direct stair. The attached view shows just those parts needed - some come in duplicate. The existence of the lower deck seat backs is purely to provide material to form into any other parts such as 'used ticket boxes'. The redundant parts go straight into the plastic recycle bin. In the bottom left hand corner is a sprue that you may not find in the box. When Brian Robinson acquired the Tower Trams range from David Boyle, he produced for me this sprue containing the reversed conductor's window part to balance that in the kit (which only faces one way) plus different types of plough carrier and headlamps. Also included are platform fittings and a low height dash. There is a three code designation box and a East Ham service number box as well. With Brian not due back into the UK until next month he may face quarantine or delay, so if you are unable to purchase the sprue, KW Trams do have many of these items (but not that conductor's window) in white-metal. The following parts in this series will take individual kit parts and show how I go about accepting or modifying them. All comments on my writings are welcome especially if there are easier ways to improve them!!!

LT/LUT trams, Brixton Hill depot??? Well there is a weird connection through fate! Just look (attached) at what I found in the loft! Prior to the first outing of John Clarke's "West Croydon" layout to the Model Tramways Festival of 2001, I had assessed that three cars would be needed to operate each of services 7 and 30 along Tamworth Road from Reeves Corner (fiddle yard) to the West Croydon terminus. Having only ex-SMET 47S for the 7, I looked to doing the Alphagraphix Type T card kit to take the place of the Type U cars that were used. Before I got any further, I bought two scratch-built cars, one U and the other WT and changed their 57 service boards for the Sutton line. Now almost two decades later I will renovated the Type T assemblies, remove the lower deck seating and prepare a 'plug system' mech. So hope to revert more on this as things proceed. But that brings me on to that weird connection in real time. Had LPTB not have had to move the roof stations of the traverser halls of Streatham depot further apart for the extra overhang of a Feltham when moved sideways on the traverser, then the remaining Type Ts and snowplough/vacuum cleaner car 148 would have gone to Brixton Hill for scrapping. With Hendon and Fulwell tram-less in December 1936, the remaining cars at Hanwell, that were not destined for Streatham, could only go south side for scrapping. To permit the mentioned rebuilding of Streatham depot, BH had to return to being an operational depot. So by autumn of 1936 George Cohen had cleared BH of the backlog of stored and redundant cars. With the planned south side trolleybus conversions for 1937 came the need for another scrap-yard for Cohens. The trackwork entry from Mitcham Road into Aurelia Road in West Thornton was altered and the depot, often referred to as Mitcham, took on a new role and the new title of LPTB's Croydon depot. The name change was for the Cohen's men's sake when their work was transferred from BH, by alerting them not to get off the southbound 30 tram until Mitcham Common was passed which meant they had crossed into the County Borough of Croydon. Today across the Mitcham Road facing Aurelia Road is Therapia Lane and its tram depot. The structure of LPTB's Croydon depot was still in existence when Croydon Tramlink built its depot but the former has now been levelled and housing built on site. So for a while West Thornton had two tram depot structures. (My conservatory was built by a firm that occupied the Aurelia Road depot.) The following autumn the Croydon depot roof started leaking and Cohen's men complained so LPTB having ceased using Purley depot in September 1937, moved the south side scrap yard there and sold Croydon depot. Purley then became an overflow scrapping point for ex-MET Types so these would have passed BH on their way from the Kingsway Subway. After WW2 Purley had to be cleared to make way as a temporary CRD annex repainting the backlog of cars, the cars for scrap being removed to join those now being scrapped at BH. With five metal Felthams to dismantle in December 1949, Cohen's men went back to Purley to finish these and on 1st January 1950 it reopened as an operational depot to replace Thornton Heath depot (to which it had lost out to in 1937!). Oh, we do go round in circles - but that is life!!!

Thanks for the extension in this thread's title. For the present let us see how things go. Gaugemaster have completed my material orders so I can now start mixing Humbrol 69 Yellow with either Humbrol 103 Cream or 22 White. LPTB did not want to show any past alliances in a new standard livery for tramcars despite having a preference to the last LCC style. A slightly brighter red was chosen (I use Humbrol 19) and a deeper cream introduced. Humbrol used to offer a good likeness but withdrew it when it reviewed all its colours years ago. The 103 cream is too thin for my liking and being used to using Humbrol enamel I wish to keep to this. So more as I proceed. On the point of colours, there is/was a Chiswick Bus Red (the bus side continued to use the LGOC paint style well into LPTB period) which is slightly duller that 19 Red. My first Feltham 2131 was built from the first castings of the new moulds for BEC Kit No.14 from which the instructions were based. It was painted in a 'thinner' red which worried me when compared with the models of others using the 19 Red. A discussion with Richard Elliott (LTE's last Technical Officer, Trams) revealed how the standard LT red changed hue between wooden and metal surfaces, On wooden bodied cars the extent depended on the number of varnishes given, the red darkening. On metal bodies the red lightened through wear and tear. Richard's final comment on my 2131 was "that is the state they came into CRD!!!". So my view that the changes in red seen in colour photos was down to the film used and process method were somewhat dispelled! I attach a view of 2131 when first built in the 1960s and then some 50 years later on "West Croydon". It has never been altered and although retired to the reserve fleet it still gives a lovely controlled run. Of all Feltham kit and RTR models, BEC Kit No.14 is best for body detail and the re-release of the kit may well come about. With small scale model trams being viewed more from above, Richard Elliott provided Frank Vescoe with a ladder to get the full roof detail off MET 355 when at Clapham Museum. I hope the style of combining modelling detail with a touch of both real time and modelling history will make this more interesting to all.

Thanks, Ray. A lot of thought went into this. If I did a separate thread on RMweb then I would be open to accusations that I should have done this on the T&LRS Facebook when I was asked decades ago when it was first opened. Or I should do it on both! Lock-down has caused me to be on the computer far longer than before. I am constantly doing supermarket delivery orders for two households and ordering non-food items from catalogues - alas my wife still cannot use the laptop I bought years ago to relieve me! I had considered modifying the title, of a booklet Ted Oakley and I wrote decades ago, to "Improving London's Trams (models)" but I feel "Brixton Hill tram depot and its Trams" best suits my available time. So maybe the slight change in title of this thread could suffice? Hopefully it could bring more followers. I appreciate the logic in your appeal for which I again thank you. Keep modelling, Colin.

I mentioned my 'plug' mech system, so I start with the first Tower E/1 enclosed version I built when the kit was first released. I attach a view of it with a 'plug' mech produced for the Walthamstow 2nd series cars where the truck sides are equal as for these nine cars. This 'plug' is just as capable of carrying a BEC white-metal E/1 so can be interchangeable between kits. If anyone is interested in the 'plug' dimensions and assembly, please let me know and I will prepare a diagram. The Tower E/1 kits do have some very bad faults and had David Boyle contacted me before producing the moulds then there would have been at least the correct layout of the roof details and a correct bulkhead to the lower saloon. These will become more obvious as I relate the construction of ex-Croydon 390 and 391 plus using recycled parts from the Tower kits and secondhand models to build ex-LCC 1506 before LPTB rehabilitated it.

It is surprising what we south Londoners get up in lock-down!!! The amount of enquiries on railway and tramway aspects I received from the start certainly delayed doing what modelling arrears I had with my 009 "East Quay" let alone the mammoth backlog of London tramway items I still have to do. Having to replenish supplies of materials then became a factor finding that some crucial items were on order but still not received by retailers. Having clearly helped some to determine their way ahead with modelling and now coming to the end of my NG work, I am returning to the London trams. I am very grateful to those who made enquiries as it brought a load of 'modelling history' out of my loft!!! Out came unopened Tower E/1 kits plus several part built ones. My tram enquirers all bought this Tower kit which is still available on Ebay whilst the manufacturer is still sorting out his lock-down problems both on the continent and here! So I am going to concentrate on this kit and how to go about changing what is a Walthamstow 2nd series E/1 batch of only nine cars into the hundreds of LPTB/LTE E/1 design from LCC (1st and 2nd series), Croydon, East Ham and Walthamstow 1st series plus those that were rehabilitated by LPTB. The title 'Brixton Hill tram depot' is a very appropriate heading as all but the East Hammers have been housed in this depot. So I will update on my progress here. Apart from having the Tower E/1 kit whether open or enclosed version, it will be handy to have the Alphagraphix E/1 and Rehab card kit packs to hand. Although these are for 7mm. they are very useful for printing to 4mm. scale for certain parts to improve the Tower parts particularly the interior detail and seat coverings. I am not sure if these Alphagraphic kits are still available from the manufacturer or are to be found secondhand - but they are useful! So I am making a start and hope it will not be too long before I illustrate what I have done including my system of 'plug' mechs to keep the overall cost per car down.

Steve, are the stillages wood or metal? I suspect they are wood framed with MDF but of course that depends on the period you are modelling. In the 60s and 70s the sides would have been in thick plywood. So I do not think a wood colour would make them out of place. Colin.

Andy, I spent my time between journeys going out into the desert and seeing what was in the dumps! Seeing the Hill of Howth car and driving a LARS PCC on the NG circuit. I must admit I found more interest in the Seashore's dumps! A Feltham between NYC subway cars!!! Colin.

Yes, I agree with Steve that low relief workers houses as illustrated look better than trying to replicate a small town. I think the roadway over the bridge should 'slew' off to the right to replace that large end building. This would then turn the existing road into a cul-de-sac leading to a viewing point looking out to the left. The site of the large end building on the left could be the turning circle or car parking or garages. Then the background should as Steve suggests be hillside going up to the sky to give the layout a Lancashire (Pendle) look. The green hillside will contrast the drabness of the houses and dock. Using low relief houses will obviate the need for that single building seen doing nothing! How about allotments on the top of the 'cliff' between the cul-de-sac and the drop down to the dock that too would add colour and create a security fence to the dock. That upper section and background do need to enhance the good work you have done so far and I feel that going for a small town will 'crowd' the total effect of a small dock scene.

Yes, Andy, the 'Battleship' NY Railways 6000 was their only DD version of their batch of 'stepless' cars to assist the fashion business in promoting the hobble skirt!!! The PE is my favourite North American interurban and I had the opportunity to spend a day as conductor to Jedd. If I had not then there would have been no service that day for the stream of people who came to the Orange Empire. When Jedd turned the trolleys, I had to do the Q&A session with the passengers! As a thank you for being correct with the months and years in my answers, I was allowed to drive the car into the barn. Jedd's last comments were that he could have added the days!!! My PE interest started at the age of 8 seeing the three big 'Red' car train passing through the streets of Hollywood as the introduction to the Saturday morning children's cinema shows. Little did I know then that I would be walking along that street! The greatest surprise was seeing the tracks in the street outside the Union station when I went to the market opposite. Then I saw that film "Who framed Peter Rabbit"!!!

Before lock-down, discovered I had a spare Kato 009 mech and soon found a non-descript 3D print body to fit it. I already had sufficient steamers and diesels for my "East Quay" line but this body looked so ancient that it represented a petrol tractor for handling the tip wagons in the sand pits. With two bonnets each housing an engine, it definitely was a loco that could only go forward in each direction! It came with open sides but "East Quay" is at the mouth of the River Rother and very exposed to the elements. Luckily an old London tram trailer body was being demolished at Winchelsea so a couple of the saloon doors provided the solution to enclose the sides giving the driver the perfect wind-proof 'shed'. So here it is before I add any further embellishments.

As this is a small dock, that may to be found in a semi-rural location up north, why not just use the Tree Scene back scene sheet from Wordsworth. Thank you for bringing this website to attention.

Just in case anyone has missed this. Free card kits of Back, Rail and Town scenes plus brick paper can be found on the Wordsworth Model Railway website.

Lovely idea, Steve. Some modellers might decide to have Beeching instead of a rural type. Trouble with that would be it would scare the trains away! Glad to see your imagination is not reduced by lock-down, Colin.

A pill-box within a dock is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted! Yes, pill-boxes were on the approaches to a dock on river banks, roads and railways. A dock was most likely to receive a direct aerial bombardment so those inside would not have stood a chance. However, it looks great and I have kit-built one to bury in the sand dunes of Camber beach on my "East Quay" line. Current problem is the lock-down now prevents me from travelling to Camber to get the sand!!! Yes, I want the real stuff!

Superb movie, Chris. Now how about fitting a smoke unit? All the best Colin.

Looks absolutely great, well done. Good job you dated the bridge '1934' otherwise I would expect to see Burnley or Blackburn trams on it!!! By that date the MoT had refused Blackburn permission to place its tracks in reservation and Burnley's were in their last years.