coline33

Army 802 received on Monday. Pity Hornby did not choose a number of the one of this class to have served at most UK depots but I am not changing the number! Clearly 802 is one of the few photographed. I am considering changing the Conflat body section for that from a shunters truck - yes the Army did have an ex-GWR one.

Yes, I am aware that others have converted Henrietta and I was close to doing so! CJL pointed out to me the dimensional differences to reproduce the prototype so I decided not to make the financial outlay as really I wanted to keep to the BR period. I may in future return to passenger operation by returning a bogie coach from the K&T!

Thanks, Paul, for clearly illustrating the problem area.

Tim, I can assure you that if you go back through "Tramfare" issues and books on tramway modelling you will find what you want for scratch-building all aspects of track work. The continual problem has been to find a sustainable way and acceptable standards to ultimately produce RTR track work. Hamo (later Conrad) and Rivarossi were first on the scene when I was living in Germany in 1958/9. Currently "Proto87" has produced such products. But we continually come back to wheel/track standards acceptable both to manufacturers and modellers. In 4mm. scale of course we have further complications on true gauge - 16.5mm. continues to be the tramway compromise for broad through standard to narrow gauge. Chris Ward introduced his 3D print paved pieces closely followed by Simon with his much improved concept. But to get the 'decent looking' paved tram track you either have to be good model engineer or be financially fortunate to afford the use of one. Whilst the T&LRS has done all possible since 1965 to get methods to produce decent 4mm, scale paved track, the society has always supported any attempt to make the introduction to tramway modelling easier, by RTR and/or kits, as part of its policy to attract the younger generation. Certainly Simon's work has gone a long way to assist with 16.5mm. gauge and now helping with 14mm. gauge which assists both 4mm. and 7mm. scales. Yes, Tim you highlight a continuing 'fault' leaving the individual to go their own way. If you go back in world tramway history you will find even the prototype had the same problems!!! Finally, if you have not done so, have a look at John Howe's layouts in his Kingsway Models site - there is another compromise. Please let us all know how you get on. I am always learning but do not necessarily have the skills to do it! Colin.

Tim, after the demise of "West Croydon", I planned to have a replacement London layout. It took sometime to decide on the type of line and I went from a Deptford Wharf style to a circular double track, half fiddle yard, half developed High Road style. The point work of a crossover was commenced with short sections of rail as the blades. A pivot wire was solded to the non-blade end and a fine rod soldered to both blades to be kept in a biased position by a spring. However, other events came up pushing the London layout back to square one. With the development of 14mm. gauge for 3'6" operation, I have for a Black Country layout, gone for biased point work whereby all points are passed in the trailing position through the curved part but entered only on the straight part. This means all rail is fixed with just a flange gap at the fixed blade end. The line using Simon's paved and open track sections throughout, has a single siding for a small stabling or parcels depot. I did not take any photos of the 16.5mm. gauge crossover as I never finished it. I will be recording the 14mm. gauge track work on the thread on 14mm. gauge track. Whenever I return to the London layout, it will be a double track conduit circular but the crossover will be cosmetic purely for having simple electric circuits and no overhead for running LT trams round and round! My fleet has not had a run for years now with further cars awaiting completion.

I have just come across your question whilst trying to access the Group. Yes, its members are still around but since Yahoo changed ownership the Group Owner, I as Moderator and members have continued to have trouble accessing the Group. The frustrations this year in getting this sorted with Yahoo are just wearing everyone out. Fortunately, I have saved a certain amount of file/photo content so if I can help with any data please let me know.

Simon, two years on so how is this layout now looking, please? Time for an update. Colin.

I have just read through this subject to find no mention of probably the only country in the world where in its capital city the trams, trolleybuses and buses are free. Free in fact to all residents who have paid their council tax. Tourists are able to pay online for Visitor Travel Passes before they go for the period they want. The tram system has just been entirely rebuilt and extended with a new fleet of state-of-the-art articulated cars. On the day I visited, the scheme was in full swing but I had not intended using public transport. On arrival I suddenly found my afternoon then free. No one, driver or kiosk, would sell me a day ticket - "trams free" they all cried. So I travelled the entire tram system for nothing. The country - Estonia - yes in the EU. The capital - Tallin - lovely old parts yet a modern city. An alternate way that UK councils could reduce the non-payment of their rates.

In the August 20 post about Heljan LYD, mention is make of the SR green being lighter than the others. I am told it is 'Urie green' a colour in which the prototype was delivered and repainted 'Maunsell green' later. I hope this is correct as the LYD that hauled my train at Woody Bay matched LYN. Will Heljan be releasing their LYD in the darker green later?

Sorry, my last reference to LYD should have read LEW - apologies.

How have you found the colour of Heljan LYD matching that of LYD's SR green livery in reality? I thought the green was 'thin' but then I have been told that when built LYD was in Urie Green being repainted Maunsell Green later.

Just to let you know that the skeletal sections for creating ballasted 14mm. gauge track are now available in the "14mm. gauge" section of 'Recreation21' shop on Shapeways. The sections are for straight, 2r curved and both left and right hand points. Being skeletal makes for the creation of bridges as on the Kinver LR.

Thank you, Chris JL, for your articles in Model Rail 263, on detailing 68217 and turning the Bachmann 'Mavis' into a Class 04 for W&U, to Chris Gadsby for his Masterclass on Class 04 diesels in general, and to George Dent for creating the skirted 04 for N-gauge. What a useful, W&U inspired, edition this August, 2019 issue is, Colin.

Thanks, Andy. The Hyde depot base with pits, etc. is still there within the wooded area - yes, it is private land so be careful. The Hyde depot structure still exists but it is in use on a nearby farm - again on private land. If you have not already read the book, I strongly recommend Paul Collins' "The Kinver Light Railway - Echoes of a Lost Tramway". It has a mass of photos of what has survived and been unearthed, including Amblecote depot and the two parts of The Hyde depot! Some wooden tramway overhead wire standards still remain in use for electricity supplies and these are well over 100 years old! When I, with David Voice, walked the canal section in the 1970s, it was with the possibilities of a museum line but the available funding then was better used in creating the Black Country Museum. I would love to think the Kinver - Stewponey section, with its base being the restored depot at The Hyde, could be reopened as an extension of BCM but I only see it in model form!!! Colin.

Yes, Andy, the Kinver LR was constructed with Vignoles rail and had three double deck trams to start the service but the BoT inspection prohibited their use. Three single deck cars were loaned to open the line. Such was the demand to travel there from all over the Black Country, the running line was relaid in grooved permitting other operators' single deck cars to be used on the special through services. I recall seeing in the 1970s the remaining Vignoles rail (and buffer stops) still in the waterlogged pit lines of the base of The Hyde depot lost within a wood. In the book on the line by Paul Collins are photos of the mainline in grooved before closure and of some that existed into the present century. There are stories that at least one double deck car had used the line but there is no substantiated evidence. However, that is not stopping me from having a D&SDET Bellamy roofed double decker (used on the Dudley - Stourbridge mainline that connected) on my Kinver style line!!! Although no photos have come to light of the standard 'Tividale' front-exit single truck single deck cars on the line, I have read so many 'witness statements' that they did, so I believe it and use both the old Tennents and now P&D Marsh kit cars. Colin.

I recall seeing a photo of an undecorated Janus in a BR yard in northern England doing shunting trials. By which time BR found they had surplus of 03 and 08 shunters, so no longer required. Colin.

Just an update. Track work. I attach a view of the 14mm. gauge track sections in place for a paved passing loop with a stub terminal, entry to a depot or freight facility or just a plain 'cripple siding'! The painted section was just to confirm which radius curve piece was to fill the gap. All point work is biased without blades. A production glitch, now overcome, has caused delay to adding the open reserved track section off the loop. Rolling stock. The 'Tennents Tividale' continues to work well on the 14mm. gauge 'tall motor' BEC mech. A second BEC mech for it but with 'flat motor' is also now available and being 34mm. w/b will be tested under the 'P&D Marsh Tividale' kit just arrived and the Peak Horse Hong Kong car now stripped down. The casting quality of the Marsh kit is better than that of the Tennents. Now to develop a transfer set for the 'Tividale' in B&MTJC days. With momentum gaining pace hopefully further updates in due course. Colin.

Tim, thanks for the data. How tight are the bogie mechs against the interiors of the sills at these radii? Do you still have enough room for the body mounted plough carriers? These are the areas where I have experienced problems even to the extent of having to make cutouts without penetrating and ruining the sill exteriors. Beware types of second generation trams when comparing. Basically there are two broad types. The original articulation type was based on bogies as that was how manufacturing developed in the 1950s. The German systems that I travelled upon intensively at that time experienced first generation curvature often based on four wheel operation. Partly to get uniformity they articulated existing four wheelers which I found gave a much inferior ride. Today mass production to give a basic design from which cars can be tailored to suit most systems, have re-introduced the articulated 'four wheeler'. In Croydon, we have Bombardier CR4000s principally a bogie type and now the Stadler Variotram which is three four wheelers joined together! The ride into curves at the end sections is much smoother on the bogies - the four wheelers jerk but being four articulations compared with two of the bogies makes gives less of an overhang so easier to put within the 'swept-path' of existing systems. Florence like Croydon is a brand new system so the original cars were designed to suit the worst curature. The Croydon 'bogies' do grind more than the 'four wheelers' but then the distance between bogie centres is greater than between truck centres. Now you have experienced the problems the LCC faced and went through the E Class to get to the E/1. Fine in the 1900s but look what happened in the 1930s when the LCC found that 'Bluebird' was the maximum length their system could take as standard. Both the MET and LPTB found the true limitations of what became the world's largest street tramway under single control with the introduction of the Felthams and their restricted service coverage. Fortunately in Leeds, built as a four wheel system, the Felthams did not need 'skirt' attention but 'Bluebird' had to have cut-outs. You might not be able to get model Felthams round without a clash but you know you are OK for the M Class!!! Colin.

Thanks, Chris. George has confirmed that he used the OO version of the Hardy Hobbies loco crew. So if anyone wants a slightly smaller version then the HO ones are also available from them. Colin.

The 34mm. chassis now adapted so has replaced the 16.5mm. gauge one in this Dudley & Stourbridge 'Tividale' car. Runs well so have ordered the Recreation21 Flexi-track section to produce the individual sleepers to create prw as on the Kinver Light Railway. I have a Peak Horse Hong Kong car arriving shortly for conversion to this mech. So hopefully more to come.

Sorry, I meant 'Tacky Wax'!!! I do find it good stuff.

I intend using 'wacky tack' to make the crew transferable. However, my J70s are used on a W&U style oval layout with a fiddle yard at one end serving both directions. There is some shunting at two depots in between so the end with the drivers will be scheduled to be at the appropriate shunting end. The issue mentioned is identical to that I have with tramway operation on end-to-end layouts which is a reason for my latest tram layouts being circular!!!

It is alright saying 'try here' but you will see that Hardys produce the range in both scales, so still to find which one MR used as CJL has suggested. I find many circumstances where H0 figures suit the space better and do not look too cramped. I also await to see if Hardys produce the J70 crew leaning on the open front windows, looking ahead, which has already been suggested to him. I have an image run of three different sets of crew in that position which would just make the J70s more realistic and not have the same faces if you have more than one J70.

The Bessbrook & Newry electric line was another system that used road-rail wagons and that was for most of its existence to transfer coal and linen products between the mills and the port.

Now for the first view of the 14mm. gauge paved test track with the 24mm. and 34mm. wheel base mechs at the proving stage. More as things progress.