MarkAustin
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Posts posted by MarkAustin
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I was out and about yesterday, and looked at some actual brick buildings. It's worth noting that the brick courses with a pronounced inset mortar line is a relatively modern phenomenon (1960s?). Up till quite recently, bricks were mortared to the brick/wall line. There is some texture, but not much, on earlier buildings. There is a brick built terraced house (late Victorian?) near me that's been painted. There is quite a bit of texture, as the bricks are quite rough, but the mortar line is smooth.
For high quality brickwork, brick paper would suffice. If the bricks are rougher, perhaps Redutex, but the deeply incised plasticard ones are, even if sanded down, suitable only for modern buildings.
Mark
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I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Ottley. George Ottley published a bibliography of published railway sources in 1978, and then a supplement in 1988. A second supplement was published in 1998, not actually by Ottley, but published by the Science Museum. Not worth buying unless you're going to do a lot of research, but most railway collections will have a copy---I know there's a set in the TNA library.
On the subject of the TNA, a quick run-down of the main sources.
First (obviously) RAIL. This consists of the two tranches of documents got from BR. The low numbers (up to 999) were the first batch, are sorted by company, and pretty well indexed. The numbers above 1000 relate to the second tranche, and, although indexed, are not as well done or as completely sorted by Company.
Next, AN (After Nationalisation). I've not had much occasion to look at these, but my impression is that they are not as well indexed as RAIL.
Third, MT 6. MT is Ministry of Transport but covers records prior to the MoT, and 6 is inspection and other (e.g. accident) reports. Often contains plans, sometimes drawings. Watch out for these as the index is not terribly good with a lot of spelling mistakes and missing cross references, such as a station being recorded under the company name, but not under the station name and vice versa.
Fourth, three that you just have to know are of railway interest.
ZPER and ZLIB came from the old Library of the BR records office.
ZPER is periodicals, and contains, amongst other things, complete runs of most of the Railway magazines and newspapers and company staff magazines.
ZLIB is the library of published books, and contains a vast range of often rare and early books.
These two are not being kept up-to-date, so effectively "stop" at the transfer date. I did suggest at a Friends AGM, when we were given a talk by one of the curators that much of this material could be put in the TNA Library on open shelves, leaving only the rarer documents as orderable documents, but nothing seems to have come of that.
ZSPC is a real oddball. It's the lifework of one man: the W E Hayward Collection in ZSPC 11 who collected a vast quantity of stuff on railways. It's not terribly well indexed: effectively they just wrote down what was on the front cover of each volume, but each volume typically contains photographs, post cards, tickets, clippings from magazines, and can often throw up just what you need to fill a "hole". You might find you have to study this in the supervised room, as it contains a lot of loose material.
Mark A
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Just to give credit where credit is due, the yard crane etch is the one Julia designed. She passed it on to Nick, and he rejigged the etch to make it more easy to construct by mere mortals.
I nabbed the last one at TINGS on the Saturday, but it's still sitting in my gloat box.
Mark A
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Thanks for the link Andy....so much for Swindon standardisation!
Jerry
Swindon standardisation didn't mean everything was identical: it meant that everything fitted together. That's what causes the problem. Boilers etc moved around from class member to class member. There's at least one case of a pannier tank going in to Swindon works and coming out with saddle tanks.
That's why, for accurate modelling, you need a photgraph of the correct period to see which member of the clas had which variant at any time
Mark A.
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A couple of quick points. The distant signals (both directions) would be off-scene, so from a modelling point of view can be ignored, unless you're planning an interlocked lever frame. Assuming the half-way points on the curves mark the scenic break, than there is an issue with the left-hand side. Either you have to assume starter is, again off-scene, or put one immediately after the turnout, and have a shunt ahead signal below it to allow shunting movements. This signal might have the distant for the next box, but in a rural environment like this, I would suspect not. If you do model the distant, it would need to be slotted with the starter, so it cannot be pulled off until the starter is.
I tend to agree that for this period and the location, the goods lines would be operated by hand signals, but you would need a starter for what I assume is the goods line on the upper right if you have the starter off-scene, but I would think that if you had it immediately after the turnout, this would probably not be provided. Other than that, I agree with Don, except that there wight be a bracket to control access to the bay.
As an aside, for signalling, can I recommend the SigScribe program from Modratek. Go to https://modratec.com/ and click on the SigScribe4 link. It's free (he's trying to get you to buy his lever frames), and enables signal diagrams with full interlocking to be created.
Mark A
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Trade secret.....
You don't need any special software. All major photoshop programs should work.
You do, however need the right font, which I found thanks to gwrrob and this site: http://www.uksteam.info page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwr-elist/files, font GWR Nameboards.ttf. (but you need to be a member or register)
Install it in windows and it should the be available in your photoshop program. With some experimenting with letter spacing, line spacing, stretching, opacity etc. you should be able to make a accurate 00 copy of the text you want. Good quality printable transfer paper is widely available, but the hard part is printing the texts, because you ideally need a printer that can print white! And those are about as rare as hens teeth, but luckily enough for me a friend of mine has one!
If you don't have access to a printer which can print white, the answer is to use white transfer paper and make the background the colour of the side, black in this case. With a little judicious weathering, you should not see the join.
Mark A
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Can you give the national archives reference numbers?
Drduncan
The Bristol Diary, which contains a pile of fascinating stuff, including local carriage workings, is at RAIL 253/527-556 runs from 1904/5 (527) to 1936 (556): one piece per year, apart from the first which starts in October 1904.
If you can't get up there, I'll be there on Tuesday. Volunteering, but I plan to pop upstairs after I've finished. Give a year and I'll photograph the relevant section.
However, if you're modelling anything in the Bristol Division, these files are well worth a look. Someone seems to have pasted every circular they got into a scrap book.
I seem to recall having seen more at another reference, but can't track this down. I'll have another look over the weekend.
For information, the Through Carriage Programmes are RAIL 938, piece 1 being given as 1892-1898, then yearly to 1926. Again, I think there are some more, but can't find the reference.
Edited to add. The TNA catalogue is on-line at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Mark A
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Chris, thanks for the amplification. My reason for posting was to make clear that terminology differed from Division to Division, so moellers cannot assume that a B-Set means van Composite-Van Composite without other proof. I agree that we're stick with B-Set as a shorthand for said combination.
Mark A
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It's worth noting that coach set designations changed, by time and by division. The term B-set for a Van Composite-Van Composite set is only applicable for the Bristol (I think) Traffic Division, after (about) WW1. Before then, it was a set of 4 or 6 wheelers (can't remember the exact formation), and other Divisions used different codes. From memory, in the Birmingham Division a B-set was van Third-Composite-Composite-van Third, but don't quote me on that.
To be really accurate you need a copy of the appropriate local coach working programme, but they're like hen's teeth. There's a virtually complete set for the Bristol Division at The national Archives, but other than that they are difficult to get hold of.
Mark A
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There's often confusion in modelling circles about the difference between a ground frame and a signal box, with many believeing it's based on size. It's not. Although most ground frames were small, the fundamental difference is functional. A signal box is a block section, regardless of size, a ground frame merely controls local turnouts and sometimes signals and is not a block section.
Although I don't know the station in question I doubt in it had more that 3-4 turnouts, perhaps with locking levers and 2-4 signals depending on whether it had fixed distants, so only a small box would be needed.
Perhaps the Signalling Record Society data on their web site would amplify this.
Mark A
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Some progress made on the front elevation of the station house.
Not sure what to do with the stones in the wall. Include in the model, stick on stone effect afterwards or leave as is. The stone work on the prototype is pretty flat and probably wouldn't be visible at scale. What's the general consensus on the best approach for 2mm?
IMHO, many modellers overdo texture. Apply the 2ft rule. If you can't see it from that distance, don't put it in. can't judge in this particular case, but if the stonework is close-fitting smooth stone work (Ashlar?), very little texture will be needed: basically and indication of the courses. Is it your intention to 3-D print it? If so, perhaps all you need is scribing for the courses.
Mark A
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RAIL471 and RAIL224 look like they may be useful but I'm not sure what level I could expect from the plans.
They have records of the proposed LNWR Disley - Hayfield line too. That could make things interesting (way) down the line.
There's absolutely no way of knowing except by looking at them them. A plan could be anything from a simple sketch to a detailed drawing. The MT 6 Inspection reports often (but not always) contain highly detailed plans---often in the case of new work on an existing system shewing the new work overlaid in red on the original layout. To give an example, two documents I looked at were entitled something similar to Vale of Neath Railway stock. One was a two-page list of stock taken over by the GWR, one was a detailed engineering specification, down to the painting details (coat by coat)..
MT 6 is in particular a bit of a nightmare. It was once described to me as having been compiled by someone who did not understand railways, and typed up by someone who could not read his hand-wrighting.
Mark A
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This isn't the first time but I've been pondering getting into railway modelling and looking into Hayfield station as a prototype (I know the site well). It turns out that a 2mm scale model of Hayfield would fit the space I have available. Given my preferences to take on a challenge for the sake of accuracy, the space available, the lack of anything RTR everything is drawing me to attempt 2FS.
The question is, as essentially a beginner, am I bonkers?
No, go for it.
FYI I did a search in The National Archives Discovery catalogue on Hayfield in RAIL (obvious), AN (After Nationalisation) and MT 6 (BoT reports: inspections, accidents etc) and turned up:
No idea which, if any are relevant in your case---well outside my area of operation. If you want any help in how to use TNA for research, contact me, byt be warned: research can get addictive and take over.
Mark A
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Hi Mark, thanks again. I have a sneaky feeling that the reference to Willenhall you found in the National archives refers to Willenhall Coventry. Appreciate the assistance.
Mark K
Some of them almost certainly do. Some will be for what you want. I would advise checking them.
MT 6 in particular is a bit of a nightmare. Someone once described it to me as having been compiled by someone who didn't understand railways, and typed up by someone who couldn't read their hand-writing :-) However, they often contain very accurate track plans, often giving two periods on one plan (existing layout overwritten with new plan in red). Even accident reports can illuminate issues, e.g. make-up of trains.
If you want any assistance in using TNA, contact me.
Mark A
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Hi all,
I am new to the forum and hope that I have posted in the correct topic. I have returned to the hobby after a decade or so and want to have a go at modelling a real location. I would like to model Willenhall Stafford Street, which was part of the Midland region post 1948. The station closed to passengers in 1931 but remained a very busy goods yard until the end of steam.
I wondered if anybody has any photographs of this location. The internet is very limited.
Thanks in advance.
Mark K
Another search. Dis a search in The National Archives on Willenhall in RAIL (obvious), AN (After Nationalisation) and MT 6 (BoT reports---Inspections, accidents etc) and got:
Mark A
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Hi all,
I am new to the forum and hope that I have posted in the correct topic. I have returned to the hobby after a decade or so and want to have a go at modelling a real location. I would like to model Willenhall Stafford Street, which was part of the Midland region post 1948. The station closed to passengers in 1931 but remained a very busy goods yard until the end of steam.
I wondered if anybody has any photographs of this location. The internet is very limited.
Thanks in advance.
MarkK
Check out the station index here: http://www.mulehouse.myzen.co.uk/stations/and search for Willenhall.
Decoding the references is a bit tricky, but read the very comprehensive descriptions.
Mark A
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Encouraged by the prototypes, I have sent off a new batch of 3D printed chassis blocks to Shapeways. Here's my latest take on a GWR 2251, complete with as cantilever gear box which should prove to be much less prone to flexing than the etched version.
Chris
Looks interesting.
Couple of questions: what will it be printed in, and will it be strong enough (I presume you bush the axle/gear shaft holes).
Mark A.
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I'm not convinced by the "represent slate roofs by overlapping strips of paper" method.
In my opinion, this method has simply hardened into dogma, which few people challenge.
I was recently in the National Archives, and was looking over the courtyard (and ponds) to the new(ish) extension, which has a slate roof. This was at a distance comparable to the normal viewing distance for a 4mm, let alone a 2mm model.
The roof looked flat.
There were no obvious ridges marking the slates, although the slates could be clearly seen. Remember that slates can be as little as a 1/4 inch thick---this translates to somewhat less than 0.05mm, and I defy you to find, let alone work with a paper that thin.
Frankly slate roofs are better portrayed by flat paper sheets, rather than go to the extent of cutting out strips, in order to lead to a grossly over scale finish. For tiles, yes, this works
Mark A
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Having come late to this thread, some musings on the subject.
First, for any coaches of these types, you really need a copy of John Lewis' article on the subject in the 1981 Model Railway Constructor Annual. He unpicks pretty well all of the variants. They go for UKP 3-4 on ebay. Alternatively, PM me with an email address, and I'll send scans.
Despite the bewildering range of lengths of Dean period coaches, they were actually quite standardised.There were standard length compartments (e.g. End first, centre 3rd etc.) and the works simply slotted them together, and made an underframe to fit.
On the layout, looking at the latest plan, my inclination would be to assume that the loco stabling is off-scene ( a la Ranelegh Road at Paddington): this would allow longer platforms---the locos would be released, toddle of backwards of-stage, get turned and return for the outwards journey.
Finally, a suggestion for a might-have-been: Rugby Great Western. This was proposed in the 19th Century and about 1/3 to 1/2 built, before the GWR got involved with the batting Shrewsburies, and changed it's mind and headed for Birmingham and Wolverhampton. I believe you can still see the embankment that curves off the GWR line at the point where it was to head east to Rugby.
Mark A
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The New Radnor branch book that you mention has several photos of B sets, quite modern stock for a very rural backwater but then these photos were taken in the 1940's.
There was an article about Presteigne station in a very old Model Railway Constructor but this gives little information on the rolling stock used. However the Oakwood Press book, Great Western Branch Lines, does have two photographs taken at Presteigne and whilst earlier than the dates you are looking at these show four wheel coaches. It is quite reasonable to assume that four wheel coaches would still have been used well into the 20's. I do have a vague recollection that an old GW Journal may have further infornmation on the carriages used. The same photos show the inevitable 517 0-4-2T but also, and more unusually, a 1701 0-6-0ST. In later years (mid 1930's on) a fair clutch of 58xx 0-4-2T's were allocated to Leominster with a couple outstationed at Kington and these worked all the branches from Kington. The 3571 0-4-2T's did appear on the New Radnor trains but I think these were through trains from Worcester (via Bromyard) and were more associated with the Bromyard branch rather than New Radnor as understand they were shedded at Worcester. The service timetable I have seems to show that the Kington and Eardisley branches were worked by the same loco and coaches throughout the day. The goods traffic was worked by an 0-6-0T.
I've always liked the more rural backwaters of the GWR and Presteigne, a very attractive station, is one well worth modelling. I hope that temptation turns into reality.
GWRJ Issue 31 pp4188-9 has three photos of Presteigne after closure to passenger traffic, shewing 1420 in a bay, 1420 with train at station platform, and the station sign, backed by a rather tatty fence, and the end of the station. All in colour.
Data from the GWRJ Index at http://www.gwrjournal.com/index.phpperhaps a search there on other keywords might find something.
Mark A
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"John G said to me that it's a good job he doesn't know what he's doing or he would never have done it!"
Perfect, Jerry! This describes the approach of the modest Mr Greenwood to a "T". And look at his inspirational results...
Yes, it's quite a piece of work that crane (and the associated vehicles). I once helped John out at a show (many years ago), and I think I spent more time operating the crane (after word got about) than running trains, and I believe there was one show where he ran a train up at the start, used the crane all day, and then ran the train back---only two train movements in a whole day.
Mark A
"John G said to me that it's a good job he doesn't know what he's doing or he would never have done it!"
Perfect, Jerry! This describes the approach of the modest Mr Greenwood to a "T". And look at his inspirational results...
Yes, it's quite a piece of work that crane (and the associated vehicles). I once helped John out at a show (many years ago), and I think I spent more time operating the crane (after word got about) than running trains, and I believe there was one show where he ran a train up at the start, used the crane all day, and then ran the train back---only two train movements in a whole daye.
Mark A
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So far as I am aware the LNWr locos did not go further than Afon Wen but even if they did I would expect it would only be to Pwllheli or Portmadoc. In pregrouping days in particular the originating company tried to arrange things to give themselves the lions share of the proceeds so the LNWR would do better if the traffic was handed to the Cambrian at Afon Wen for anywhere from BArmouth north while the Cambrian would do better if it went by Welshpool. I believe empties were returned by the same route they went. So I imagine that Cambrian 3 plankers loaded with slate would go via Welshpool unless for local use.
Don
Not sure about this. The RCH established shortest route paths fairly early in its career, and revenue was shared based on that. Unless the routes were about the same length, and alternatives, I don't think it would make any financial difference.
having said that, various companies got up to shenanigans to maximise their revenue. The GWRencouraged traffic to London, in particular to the docks, to go to Brentford Docks, where is was shipped by a company allied with the GWR.
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Mike,
Thank you. I am not certain that I am too bothered about being right, I just thought that I ought to work out the correct spacings, but did not consider the other limitations of Peco track. As I said to Neil I would like to replicate the narrower spacings at the rail joins but I have never worked with flexitrack before, well apart from 009 crazy track pinned to the board, and I have never ballasted before so even looking right might be difficult.
Remember, Peco don't make OO gauge track. They make HO gauge. Aimed at the much larger US market, with thinner sleeper closer together.. If you want real OO track you need someone like C&L.
Mark A
GWR CLERESTORY COACHES - drawings
in GWR Rolling Stock: model and prototype
Posted
Another useful reference is an article by John Lewis in the 1981 Model Railway Constructor. He details all the variants on panel sizes/spacing for the clerestory stock.
With this, you should be able to generate drawings of most of them using the Weight Diagrams at the NRM. They're not accurate enough on their own.
If you can't get a copy, PM me with an email address and I'll scan mine.
Mark A