johnarcher

If one wanted to have a go at one's own lining (so, with lots of practice, one could maybe get in finer and more subdued in shade), could you suggest a decent ruling pen that doesn't cost a fortune. Do you mean the Bob Moore sort of thing? I have only ever tried with an ancient bow pen, which belonged to my father long ago.

I think the point of the 'shiny dark brown' is a good one, and suggests that the full-strength colours of lining transfers are part of the 'gaudiness', as well as, probably, over-width lines, and toned-down shades might be an idea. (Can anyone say how wide the orange lines on, eg, HMRS GW lining transfers are?) Anyway I conclude (maybe not wholly objectively) from all this that the gospel according to GWR.org is pretty convincing - "The early Churchward era was characterised by many Dean loco classes receiving numerous and regular changes to boilers, tanks, fireboxes and bunkers, and it seems that lining ceased to be applied to many such locos, particularly members of goods classes, possibly as early as 1904/5. Saddle tanks were normally unlettered and unlined after 1906, but some newly converted Pannier tanks appearing after 1910 appeared with lining. Steel dome casings were introduced in 1904, which were painted in bodywork green, and brass dome covers began to be painted over from 1904." So I could get away with a 517 and a 2021ST c1912 unlined, which will do for me, making this period more feasible for me. (Though one still has to decide if a particular prototype in probably the only available photograph is lined or not).

re 551 - Perhaps you have better eyes than I do! It raises a bit of a question though, knowing that some such engines were unlined if one can't see lining (or think we can't) do we assume it's there but hard to see, or that this is an unlined one - like the three Miss P linked to above? Also I wonder, if one can't produce the orange line to scale (about 0.04mm from a quick, fallible, mental calculation), and it might be invisible if one could (#9 above) how much is an overscale ('gaudy' as Miss P put it) line a mis-representation?

Here's the 551 picture (The management please remove if this is any sort of breach of copyright). I think there is a hint of black line (no orange visible as you say) on the upper edge of the bunker, but I can see nothing on the tanks. So knowing that some lesser engines were unlined at this period one has to judge if it is faint or absent?

The site for the three pictures you linked to a few posts ago (which I can't find again) also had a shot of 551 (do you have it?) on which I think I can discern a trace of bunker lining but no sign of any on the tanks - a partial repaint after alterations, as suggested above? Judging by the tall chimney that should be a fairly early one I think.

Like some others I was not a great sporting success at school. I loathed Rugby and cross-country, but liked cricket though - I was a great fielder (good at catching and throwing) but couldn't bat or bowl decently. My only success was winning the shot-putt on one school sports day, because the chap who should have won was already doing as many other events as permitted. My one sport, I used to be pretty good with a longbow - I still have a box of medals won in field shoots with that, (Hence the alias on here. I don't really know why I used one, except it seemed to be the norm when I joined).

Thanks for those points. 1467 is presumably between 1904 (R4 boiler) and 1908, so ties in with the idea that some tank engines came out unlined from about 1904/5? By the way, while on 517's again, does anyone know of any pictures anywhere of 216? There's one in the GWRJ articles, but not a very clear or close one. I'm interested as she was a Leominster engine in 1914.

Yes, those are some of the pictures I was looking at, I know lining can show only faintly but those are good clear pictures and I can see no sign of it at all. Incidentally, from your superior knowledge can you put a date on the picture of 832 based on the lettering on the end of the van? It looks like 16" GW to me, but I think you could sometimes get that where space was restricted even in the 25" lettering period? The picture of 1467 is presumably pre-1908 when she got the long wheelbase conversion?

Gaudy? Yes, OK I know about the limitations of Edwardian photography re colour reproduction, but much 4mm (transfer) lining does seem a bit much. Maybe it is mainly the orange line, is it ever a scale 1/8" (I think that's right), or maybe the full-strength colours? Anyway I have always fancied the pre-WW1 scene, but had no faith that, at my time of life, I could still develop the skill with a bow-pen to produce lining of the subtlety photos suggest. So the suggestion that some (or many) tank engines were unlined after c1905 (especially, but not only, saddle tanks) is interesting. I take the point about partial repainting at rebuild time, but even 517's sometimes managed ten years or so between rebuilds, presumably a repaint would become necessary at some point, as with coaches?

To resurrect this thread, if I may (still trying to get out of lining), GWR.org says many tank engines were unlined after about 1904-6. Obviously this might happen with repainting when rebuilt, but how often were engines repainted otherwise? I believe about every 10 years (pre-WW1) for coaches, is it similar for loco overhaul and repaint?

Thanks again to those who gave RCTS info. Fortunately I won't need to bother you for those again, I got the four-coupled volume from eBay at a very reasonable price. (Missed the six-coupled tanks one though).

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the reasons, but it's a pity, your lining looks better than most transfer lining.

Is this dead scale lining to be found on your website? It's a long list to search, if it is there could you give me the sheet number?

Thanks again. In the GWRJ articles there's a photo of 571 at Lostwithiel in c1926 with round-top firebox as you say, combined with full Collett cab and bunker. Which seems an unusual combination, more so than the opposite (Belpaire with open cab) as Miss Prism points out. There seem to be a few around like 1434 with Belpaire, open cab and type 65 armchair bunker in the late '20's. The July 1924 date for 845 is annoying, the photo at Abbeydore is captioned as 'Summer 1924'! As I said you can't see the firebox in this rear view.

Does that mean the locomotive kits will remain as etches only, or be full kits again sometime? Of interest - Beattie Well tank, GW Armstrong Goods.

Thank you Does that imply 845 got Belpaire, but no closed cab? She lasted until 1934, maybe a later photo will turn up.

I would too, but, as I suppose you mean, in that situation there is unlikely to be a kit produced.

Oh, I didn't know about Sunstar (Racing, Eastern engines and diesels are none of them my thing), thanks. You're right about the last two of course.(there was also a broad gauge Shooting Star, which is a meteor. No Guest Star as yet though)

Yes, I recently bought a 517 kit that way, with no problem at all.

Isn't Sun Star tautology, as the Sun is a star? I like Evening Star - poignant considering where in the history of steam she comes (also it links to the other end of that history - there was a broad gauge Evening Star built 1839)

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this. However may I (with apologies) put another number forward? (If I bought all the books I'd need to answer these questions I couldn't afford the kit, being only on a smallish pension. I hope that has elicited enough sympathy) I am still seeking the ideal 517 to do - desirable is an open cab still in late '20's (to show off Mitchell cab fittings), armchair bunker, also, it occurred to me, suitable for both areas that interest me: Herefordshire and Cornwall. 845 looks interesting - photographed at Abbeydore on the Golden Valley in 1924 (according to the caption, one can't read the numberplate in the photo), at Lostwithiel in 1926 (GWRJ articles - I have at least bought those) Does anyone know of any other photos (the Abbeydore one is of limited use being mostly a rear-view), date she got a Belpaire boiler, or any other informative snippets? Also Belpaire date for 571 would be interesting? (Photo at Lostwithiel 1927 (looks round-top, but with Collett cab), on Golden Valley c1930-33). Once again - thanks and apologies.

There's a note on the C&L website that Exactoscale driving wheels have gone to a new owner, expected to be functioning from June. Does anyone know anything about this, I can't find anything via Google.

Thank you for a very thorough answer.

What type of paint/primer seems to work best on this material?

Me too. Are they or their bits on his stand at shows too?