Down_Under

So after a little faffing, I have come to the following conclusions: Pinpoint bearings - cannot countersink enough, thus the axle forces the chassis apart, lots of binding and too ridged. 26mm/2mm diameter pinpoint axles - these seem to work fine, an acceptable level of movement. Sprung pickups may help here. I managed to sort out the binding - I hadn't pushed the gear on far enough causing some offset and binding. The next method I would like to try is to turn the ends down to 1.5mm on the lathe, or a length of 2mm steel rod. Just need to build some pick ups, and finish mounting the motor.

The increased ridge-ness of the bogie is the first thing you notice. The middle axle still has some slop in it. I will convert one with pinpoint and one without to see what the difference is. I have noticed that there is still a fair bit of movement in the mesh if the gears, so if you could spring at the ends, like a wagon -it could work. If I had a lathe, I think I would turn some 2mm rod down at the ends to 1.5mm like the Hornby wheelset and then push fit on new wheels.

I think I appear to have sorted out some of the binding - spacing of wheels on the axle and the correct spacing of the drive gear. Although the frames are a little wonky. I've started to convert all the bearings to waisted type-but I guess I should have left as was - the pinpoint type should self centre in the original Hornby 1.5mm hole?

Good find Paul. Must admit, I haven't done much more research. Made a rough sketch. Kinda to scale, but mostly using proportions from photos. Wheelbase, height and length scale. Width guessed, same for height of frame and depth of body. Acquired a few raw materials but my local shop is a little low on brass strip. Plus I've been tinkering with a class 31.

The main issue to the binding appears to be the lack of squareness to the Hornby moulding. Fully converted to the left - note frame binding in top right Partially converted on right - driven axles substituted with plain 14mm and 12mm wheel sets, un modified bearings.

Thanks for the tip! I have completed one test bogie (haven't greased the middle axle yet) needs a little more reaming out. I just need to work on spacing a little more. I have gently tapered the copper bearing/pick up strip with a tapered broach, but there is still some binding on one side of the bogie I might convert all of these to waisted bearings, it seems the one I did seems to be the one with the bogie frame binding against it, thus I ma have countersunk it a little too far.

This is very much work in progress... So as it turns out trying to fit a pinpoint bearing increases the distance between the frames, to such an extent the wheels won't turn freely. Instead, I have slightly tapered the copper plates, firstly using. A 2mm drill to bore 0.5mm into the copper and then reaming this out. This seems to be the better option. Even counter sinking the the pinpoint bearing, it is still too much (the copper conductor plate/bearing is pretty beefy, but not enought to fully countersink the bearing. Slightly reamed copper plate (shiny metal where reamed)

I have since careful prised off the copper conducting slip and bearings. The bearings are small 1.4mm I/d bearings pressed into place. Normal pinpoint bearings (these ones are Romfords) are 1.92mm o/d. I am going to careful ream them out and solder in the pinpoint bearing type. The final problem will be the center axle - technically this should be un-powered - but i might for the time being have it powered - the drive to the rear axle go through it on the Hornby model. I could use some brass tube as a bearing, or ream out the plastic center slightly oversize so it rotates but does not provide power. Hmm.

After reading this post here by James on converting and detailing a Lima Class 31: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/19369-brush-type-2-re-birth-judgement-day/?p=187845&fromsearch=1 I found the original article on James Blog: http://eastmoor.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/project-31-finale.html It inspired me to have a crack. So far I have mounted the bogies, and cut some plasticard for the motor mount. The next task was to convert the Hornby bogies to P4. Which is where the problems begin. The Ultrascale conversion pack is no longer available and neither is the Alan Gibson one (although I believe some are in the pipeline). Either way, I decided to attempt to convert using some readily available parts, So this is what I have done: Firstly the axle on the Hornby Bogie are split axle, with a plastic centre incorporating a gear, with the metal ends running in non tapered bearings. I measured the length of these - 25.5mm. Pretty close to 26mm pinpoint wagon/carriage axles. After disassembling the Hornby bogie, you find that the metal stub axles are 1.5mm diameter vs 2mm for the average wagon carriage axle. I decided to ream out the plastic centre, to 2mm(using a broach to open out the ends, and then a 2mm drill). There is plenty of meat on these - an o/d of 3mm. The plan was then to insert the wagon axle into the plastic centre and then place the correct set of drivers on then end. As it turns out all the wheels are the correct diameter on the Hornby model a 14.3mm for the drivers and 12.5mm for the non powered centre axle. For proof of concept I used some Alan Gibson 14mm carriage wheels and 12mm 3 hole disc wheels, this is all I have kicking about the spares box. The below images show what I have ended up with. The 12mm disc is a little undersize (should be 3ft 1 1/2" or 12.5mm) so it doesn't quite touch the ground, this should be resolved with the correct size wheel. Now, pick ups - the Hornby bogie uses the bearings as pick ups, obviously I can use these anymore, so a pick up strip will have to be made. But so far, it all seems to work. The blue side is it makes a much more ridged bogie. The next step (apart from pick ups and ordering the correct size wheels - Ultrascale make some) is to decide whether or not to remove the Hornby non tapered bearings and replace these with some tapered bearings.

Thanks for that info - good point(s)! You don't have to watch the video of a RB110 loading chalk tipplers at the former Barrington Quarry to realise the battering the wagons would have taken.

It is an interesting design - its almost as if it was designed as a hopper, but they decided to weld the bottom up. The body and the hopper like lower portions seem a little wasted on a tippler design? Unless it is to help the sides protrude beyond (and below) the solebars in an effort to gain the volume to increase the tonnes (tons). Looks like a 12ft wheelbase? 10" solebars?

Opps, here is the photo (from the site).

Hi Mark, Stumbled across this thread while researching the same wagons which there are several images in Eric Tonks "Corby" book in the ironstone quarry series. Admittedly they are not very high quality images, but they do show them in use right up until closure behind Class 14's. I also found this shot on Flicker - (http://www.flickr.com/photos/114813237@N06/12032857963) also attached below showing the wagons from a rather unusual view point. Other than that, this is all I have found at the moment. James

Found this picture today (Ironstone quarries of the midlands, v2), showing part of the discharge/crusher with a line of dump cars ready to be tipped into the crusher. If anyone has anymore photos of the crusher layout at Wroxton, that would be great. Would make a nice little layout.

Great stuff Paul! Possible the only colour in service photo I've seen. I've found a reference of the odd Hunslet and PM'd you. I've found a couple of photos of that loco in Eric Tonks book on the Oxfordshire ironstone Fields (volume 2). I've also found a few other photos of the calcing skips in use, I'll post them up, maybe in a separate thread(?). Did you ever get a measurement on the wheelbase and length over head stocks for those wagons? J

Apologies, I mis-read the original post! J

Even the sentinels had the adapter bracket, but in this case minus the coupler.

Hey Mark and Beatty, Found a couple of images that show the knuckle coupler adapters on the locos. Looks like they also have 3 link couplings as well. J

I will dig out a few books and have a flick through to see if I can shed any more light on the under frames. It's a long weekend here, so I won't get around until early next week. I seem to remember some May have had wooden under frames. Should be simplistic to model, providing a similar-ish under frame can be sourced.... James

Great news Robert

Wow, great photos. I did notice the calcing wagons - again, these would make a nice little addition in model form. I've seen a few pictures of these - I think they even did a 3ft gauge version also(?) Do you know what under frames they used - they look a little longer than a 9 of 10ft. At a guess, did the buffers appear (on the dump cars) when they made there way to Corby? Looks like all the photos that I have seen with the wagons operating in there natural habitats, the locomotives had knuckle couplers attached. J

Flicking through the books that I have - started to note a few design differences between the wagons. This example from the Industrial Wagon Book (IR Society) has different door linkages to the ones above, and also has a slightly different hand wheel location - does anyone know what this is for? Brakes? Tipping mechanism? This wagon seems to have a hand wheel incorporated into the pivot, whereas the one above has it to the side. Robert - I had been working on a design myself to scratch build - happy to send you my doodles. Jamsa

I also note a slight design variation between the power station example and the ironstone example. The later has some extra bracing straps above the drawbar and slightly different door opening mechanism. Are both ends symmetrical? Or are there some differences ?

Thanks for the replies everyone. A couple of images from Eric Tonks book - the Oxfordshire ironstone field. RThompson - could you do white metal sides (or resin?), but with the 4 cross braces between the sides and the longitudinal "girder" in brass I channel? Or perhaps etched brass plate, with white metal axle boxes, which has to be soldered up? Although I suppose that would be quite fiddly, and a template or jig would be needed to ensure squareness. Does anyone have any photos or any information on the unloading facilities for these wagons? Was it a glorified coal drop type situation? James

Thanks for the replies everyone. PaulRhB - thanks for the measurements - I did get my scales briefly muddled up - seems like the underframes would still be a little too big - at 4mm scale the wheel base should be 2.4cm and overal length 4.4cm (approximatly). Mark and Paul, that is excellent news. Thanks for the tip-off, will be keeping an eye on there web page. On the ironstone note, I revieved a email from CSP models today stating that they will be releasing a 14" Hudswell ST, which would be sutiable to use to model the Wroxton Ironstone Quarries locomotives "Gwen" and "Mary" in the new year also. Thank you all very much, James