Down_Under

Thanks for the tip Jon - I have dropped him and email, not expecting too much but you never know. Buffers can be sourced from David Geen (still listed on his website) and/or http://www.emardee.org.uk/GWR-Rectangular-Coach-Buffers-die-1081(no connection, and email to the owner reveals that they are in stock, the plain 18" heads are cheaper by a quid). The battery boxes and other gubbins can be knocked up from other manufactures. Various bits of brake rigging can be sourced from Mainly Trains and AMBIS, and bogies from Dart/MJT. Door handles - Frogmore. All depends how far one wants to go! Well that is what my research has pulled up in the last 24 hours.... The major problem that I have is that I'm in Ozzie and wont be making it too a exhibition in the too distant future - so if anyone is kind enough to see him at an exhibition and pick some up?! On the louvers - do you have the dimension from the etches? Can always knock up a Siphon with its louvers blanked out....

And brake gear, this is Dean - Churchward? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h2a03c844#h33a35558 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h2a03c844#h1b0561a7 Does anyone know, or have pictures of how it connects with the vac cylinders on these coaches? I can see the push rod - but not much evidence for the "triangle crank/Swan neck ratchet " part. Which I guess is hidden under there somewhere.... Assuming this is more conventional level brake gear: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h2a03c844#h2f5a1c4f http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h2a03c844#hfe5359d Cheers, James EDIt - found some info here on wagon applications http://www.gwr.org.uk/nowagonbrakes.html

Hi all, sorry to drag up an old post, buy it seemed sensible to add my questions to it, rather than start a new one. Having a little trouble IDing bogie types on these beasts. I got American (can spot them a mile off : http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h34a1e996#h37949112 Then I get confused. Ones with tie bars: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h34a1e996#h7026d79 Are these GWR pressed Steel 7ft bogies or MK1-BR1? (Look a little short to be MK1?) And then these: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h34a1e996#h16bb3766 Curved axle guards, no tie bars, slightly longer than above (closer to trussing). GWR pressed steel? 9ft? Or a little more exotic? Am I close? Secondly, anyone have a unopened Blacksmith O62 detail kit that can photocopy/scan (I'm sure you want to hold onto it - seem to be getting scarce) so that I could fashion up scale louvers from scratch. Or point me in the direction of a book that would have a 4mm scale drawing? Does the GWR Siphon Book by Slinn and Clarke have the appropriate 062 diagram? Or does anyone have a scale drawing of this diagram? Thanks in advance, James Edit - corrected English

Slightly off topic - A possible reason that the 47's did not have tablet catchers on the high dyke line - they did not need them? The 31's ((D)5671,72,73, 74 and 75) seem to have operated on the Kettering to Cambridge line also - here is some evidence of the tablets being in use http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/21206-northants-beds-early-70s-photos/page-2

Thanks Phil, Confusing - slightly - not helped by my misunderstanding of loco air brakes and and train air brakes! Thanks Again. It seems that most of the locos that worked the High Dyke branch were all Immingham locos between 67-73 or thereabouts. James

Thanks Phil, I got myself into a little bit of a cinfused state having misread some data on class47.co.uk. plus the photos do not lie! Many thanks for your help! Is there anything I need to be wary of when it comes to underframe detail? I imagine they would still be pretty standard at this point in their lives? "Brakes (as built) ~ Metcalfe-Oerlikon - Vacuum only" are Metcalfe-Oerlikon not air brakes? Looks here to have air (right hand side [of photo]) and vacuum and steam heat on the left ? https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/10523820683/sizes/l James

Thanks for the info Phil and David. Yes, I've seen the DaveF thread, that's what gave me the inspiration! I've a 31 I'm preparing and I've a 47 (I've orderedD1547). Were the Serck grilles on one side only, or both sides? Reason I ask is that (D)1569 falls into the fitted with Serck grilles from new, but photos I've seen don't show it fitted with Serck grilles until it became 47452. wondered if I'd only seen it photo'd from one side. J

Hi Phil, Thanks for your help and the website link and the detail differences. I had found the link to super detailed class 47, and I understand the difference about the cantrail grilles. So, D1547 it is! Looks like I could also legitimately renumber to D1569 if I felt like it too. I not that the Class 31 on this line all had tablet catching gear fitted, but the Class 47 never did seem to have any. Does this suggest that this was out of use the time the 47's came onto the scene? Cheers, James

Thanks Phil, Bachmann 32-803 Class 47/0 41 148? Both of these seem to have the 3 fixed grilles, and are in the early BR blue livery. What was the purpose of the Serck grilles? I have read this is something to do with the brakes - air braked versions? Or more specifically a type of air braked version? From the prototype photos it looks like a 3 fixed grille version - although it is only one side in the photos. Last question for now - did some loose the fixed grilles and gain Serck grilles later in life?

Hi All, My knowledge of Class 47s is very limited. The area and line that I am beginning to model is in and around the High Dyke in the early 70s. A number of Pre-TOPS, BR blue, with head code boxes class 47 where used on line to haul iron ore trains. I was planning on modelling one of these two locomotives, that appear to frequent the line D1515 (Became 47/416) https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5537932602/in/set-72157626169910951 OR D1569 (Became 47/4 # 47452) https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/10523820683/ My first question is, in their Pre-TOPS BR blue livery, where they still 47/0 or had they been converted to ETH and become 47/4's? Secondly, I am not sure on the best model to start with for my prototype. I know that the roofline grille changed from shutters/louvers to a mesh - I am not sure when this happened, and on what locomotives. From my initial research, I would be best to start with a Bachmann 2-tone Green, which represents the 47/0 e.g. D1764 http://ekmpowershop4.com/ekmps/shops/morrismodels/images/Bachmann-32-801-class-47-2-tone-green-with-full-yellow-ends-1764-209-p.jpg I have based this on the fact that is has the headcode box still working, and the louver roof vents. I am not sure if this was one of the models that suffers from the incorrect bogies or not. I am of course happy to use another manfactures model, if one is more correct than this to start from. I am aware of some of the inconsistencies, of other models - Helijan - 2mm to wide etc, but I am happy to mix and match chassis and bodies to get the right look. Thanks in advance for your help, James EDIT - to answer some of my own questions, I found here; http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_numbers.php?index=2 although there is some conflicting information D1515 was built as a 47/4 with ETS (ETH?), Fixed three-part grilles, conflicting braking - vacuum only and westinghouse, but also built with Spanner Mk3. D1569 converted from 47/0, Serck radiator shutters, dual braked? Also states built with fixed 3 part grille, and spanner Mk3. Crashed out at Morpeth 1984. D1534 converted from 47/0, Fixed three-part grilles, Metcalfe-Oerlikon braking? Did the braking equipment effect the fuel tank set up? I notice that they have different braking systems. And on receiving TOPS numbers was this when conversions where carried out? Did they blank of the Spanner boilers at this stage/remove them?

Hi Nick, Do you think you could explain what you did with the 1mm brass tube and the buffers? Was this a sleeve for the buffer shanks? I have a heap of w/m buffers that need drilling out to accept steel buffer heads and springs. Cheers, James

Looks like I'll be ordering one of those. Thanks for the info Mark. I note some of the wagons have a double row of rivets along the body side, while others have a single row, adjacent to the change in angle of the sides. Out of interest, the 13t coal hopper (1/142 + 1/144) and occasionally seen in iron ore traffic, 22/24t iron hopper (1/161 + 1/162) and 20/30t IU S&L + Lanc. Steel all have 10f 6" wheelbases, 10" solebars,17ft over head stocks. With the BR wagons appear to be derived from Chas Robert designs, and the latter is a Chas Robert design. Coincidence, or same chassis? I have an unbuilt Dave Bradwell 13t I'll check against the drawings tomorrow....

Well, this has turned into a interesting thread! Awesome information Everyone! On a construction front, the 20t version had a 10ft 6" wheelbase, 17ft over head stocks, and what appears to be a 10" sole bar? The 30t/31t varients appears to be the same wheelbase, but slightly deeper body? Or was the wheelbase stretched ( and going from 6 to 7 stanchions on the side) and the body height kept the same? James

Apologies if confusing matters, but what I see is; Post 1; 7 stanchion raised ends,tie bars, 30t marking. Post 4; derailment, mix of 6 and 7 stanchion wagons Post 17; 7 stanchion, tie bars, no raised ends, presume 30t? Post 22; 6 stanchions. No tie bars. Raised ends. 20t? Post 25; 6 stanchions, tie bars , raised ends 20t. Happy to correct where wrong.

It's almost likes the shortened one is cut and shut from an accident? Except it appears riveted, and the slopped base of the hopper has been squared off? Bit of an odd ball? seems to be 6 vs 7 stanchions, tie bars and different ladder now that I look the difference between 20t vs 30t. Totally agree Osgood and Mark. Might be the angle but the latter image you post make looks a lot smaller than the 30t version. It looks like the 20t =10ft WB and the 30/31=12ft. But that could be to do with stanchion spacing? The heights look the same (overall body, not including the raised ends)? Interesting point Osgood about the end height. I'd noted that image before, but not made the connection with a tipplers.

I didn't realsie they made two types! Do you know much about these? Same height, same wheelbase, or different in both respects. Now I am confused, I had thought that these were 31t wagons, now I'm not so sure. Is it the ladder position and type that differentiates the two? In these examples its a couple of rods welded between the stanchions, whereas the larger capacity has a seperate ladder (in a variety of places). Original images from Phantasrail website (Google; Corby, Ironstone, Phantasrail).

Hey Mark, Had any luck tracking down the records? And/or plans? Do did any make it into preservation?

Like you work Paul, looking forward to more updates. J

That is simply sensational Jim!

Hi All, I was not sure if it worth approaching a small supplier (Judith/Mike Edge?) and asking for some etched detail parts for these models? Some of the variations that I spot, that I think would be useful are: One piece etched buffer beam overlay (with curved cut out and angled cut out). Primarily to cover the cut out for the coupler. (Could use filler I guess) Thick buffer beams for the added weight version (e.g. Preston docks) and new lifting eyelets w. hole. Engine Doors - hinged version. Or sliding so that they can be left open, like many seem to be rear (short end) cab doors with hood - like the wabtech example in post #818 https://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/5669601896/in/photolist-dNauSU-czAyoQ-9D1dtb-912RmB-9D1c7Q-9CXfYP-otyLGz-otzaHV-orNVCQ-ocneSn-ddoCKG-pmSTgo-5umgrr Extended compressor housing with vents & extra fuel tank? Preston Dock example Buffer overlays. Side window etch of aluminum frame - like the BSC example http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6022/5950218313_fff7360cde_z.jpg Sand box filler - seems some have, some do not. http://www.flickr.com/photos/69947186@N08/7353963428/ One piece side frame to cover the join. (again could use filler) coupling rods (for when the rod version is released Cast sentinel name badges? Hand rail instead of the one piece sides e.g. http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8234/8578870514_e88d9b4f7f_m.jpgalso has hooded or extended rear doors. Not sure what the general interest is. May a post in the small suppliers section?

Hi Wild Boar Fell, I will be putting in an order for a couple of 4mm Scale Warwells very soon. I am not sure what the demand would be like, but have you considered making a few of the components for a non-self propelled crane, based on the Warwell Chassis? Such as those here? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtwinjibcrane http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtwinjibcrane/h7d67e60#h1b6d8c30 I was thinking basic parts like cab, boom/jib etc, with some of the other parts left to the modeller to add (handrails, wires, hooks etc)? I for one would be keen for some parts, not sure if anyone else out there is? I thought perhaps it would complement the R&R recovery crane, and makes use of some existing products Many thanks, Happy New Year! James

Looks like you can use the "coupling pocket" they advertise as a basis for the coupling pocket on the Oxfordshire examples. Going to order up a couple myself. I've a Judith Edge 16" Hunslet waiting to be built here... What couplings did you end up ordering Paul? EDIT: Although I don't have a suitable 0-4-0 yet...waiting for the CSP 14" Hudswell Clarke

The prototype that in mind worked the High Dyke Branch - and it fits in nicely with my want to model the iron ore railways of the late 60s, early 70s. I found this set of photos by David on Flickr - you can also find them on this forum. https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/sets/72157626169910951/ The locomotive that I will be modelling is either: 31 #5671 https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5640302754/in/set-72157626420020389 or 31 #5673 https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5640302996/in/set-72157626420020389/ Or maybe both eventually. A little bit different is the tablet catcher recessed into the door.

From what I understand, they are still currently unavailable - I also understand that Colin is trying to get some more made - although this is proving to take longer than he anticipated. Timeframe as I understand it is still open. I have am in need to to a parts order in to alan Gibson soon, so will recheck in to see if there is any more news on the items. I also have a spare bogie, and thought why not have a bash t see if I could do it with everyday items. So, technically a success. you can use 26mm axles. Not sure how well it will run. (Need to build some test track and finish mounting the motor). But you can build it without any binding, and some minor movement (slop!) which should hopefully run ok. I am not sure on the longitivtiy of steel axles running in copper bearings, therefore I am going to have a go turning down the ends of a 2mm axle to see if this provides a neater solution to the problem. The next problem is find the correct size wheels. Although Hornby have used near scale wheels, but I've tried various manufactures and some are slightly undersize, while others oversize. I think I will have to settle on slightly underside (14mm) drivers and scale (12.5mm) middle (carrying) axle, so that all wheels touch. And build some pick ups. To answer David's question a little more, I thought about chopping off the ends, but upon taking apart the bogies, you find that the Hornby axles don't run on any bearings as such, the plastic gear/centre is undersize for the slot (should be visible in above photos). So the slop would be unacceptable. I think if I was to try and spring it, you would have to build some sub frames, and spring on the ends of the axles, like you would a wagon or carriage. And finally, Sean, thanks for the update. You can let James know I'll be in contact, and look forward to his next blog post.