grob1234

Dear Tony, I hope you're keeping well? I thought you might be interested to see my progress with the SE Finecast C12 I'm building. Nearly all done now body wise, just the whistle, ross pops, and guard irons to fit. The chassis needs a minor tweak; the front bogie needs moving forward about 3mm. I've added a torque arm to the gearbox, as well as a flywheel to give it a bit of 'go' over any dead points in the track. The J69 is still in the paint shop. Tomorrow, I'll fit the buffers, apply the decals and begin detail painting. Its fighting me though, the little devil won't sit quite level on its chassis, so I will need to wait until I'm in a patient mood to fit some thin plasticard spacers to try and even it out. Only talking a mil or so, but still, needs to look right. I'll put some more info on my builds in my own thread, but here are a few pictures of the current state of play: ^^^^ Front bogie not on track... always see these things post shot! ^^^ And again, just noticed the front securing screw shows below the boiler. I'll have to space it out from underneath.

Dear Steve, Thank you very much for the interest. Currently, the J69 is in the paint shop. The buffer beam red takes a few coats. Once that's done, I'll number it, and then give it a more matt finish, before weathering. I need to raise the ride height by a few mm, and unfortunately the wheel balance weights supplied on the etch don't fit, so I'll need to figure some sort of replacement. Other than that it's nearly done. You're right about the variations in the class. In the end, I copied a picture of the prototype I wanted to model in the correct era, but unfortunately, there aren't a huge number of reference pics available, like there are for the more popular classes A3/A4s etc. The kit I had by Iain Rice did have a good amount of information supplied, but really a picture is best. I suppose in 7mm you can't skimp on the detail. They are really characterful locomotives though, and great fun to model, despite the challenges. In other news, the c12 is nearing completion, just awaiting a couple of Ross Pop safety valves, and it'll go in for priming. The next job will be the W1 conversion, and I have made a start on the Finecast tender as well. Hopefully my order from 247 developments will be with me soon, and I can crack on with finalising the chassis of both engines. More pictures when I return from my work trip.

Don't worry, it doesn't sit in that orientation. It will sit horizontally (conventionally) once the gearbox is secured in place.

Hello, I got fed up of messing about with the cab of the c12, so I decided to move on to the W1 chassis. This is my third chassis, and I really wanted to make sure it was a good-un right from the off. I replaced the supplied axle bearings with Romford ones, as the fit of the supplied bearings was sloppy. I carefully reamed out the holes so that the new axles were a really snug fit. I cleaned up the frames and removed 3mm from the rear of the frames as per the instructions. I also reamed out the holes slightly larger than recommended for the frame spacers. I figured that by using my poppy jig, that the axles would provide the alignment, so the frame spacers were only fully tightened once the chassis was aligned. I doubled the thickness of the connecting rods, and reamed the holes out so they were a tight fit on the small end of the axle jig. You'll notice I'm using different bearings on the center axles. These give more surface area by having a larger shoulder, with the additional benefit of less sideplay in the driven axle, and also no need to file the bearings on the inside to accommodate the motor frames. Here you can see the side frames, with frame spacers attached and lightly tack soldered on to prevent them rotating. After this stage I assembled the chassis on the jig. The soldered chassis. I didn't have to ream the axle bearings at all, nor did I have to ream the connecting rod holes, maybe I was lucky but the wheels all turned without a trace of bind, either on the axle bearings or connecting rods. Now the motor and gearbox is fully assembled. The mashima 1628 round can is by far the smoothest, quietest motor I have come across to date. The gearbox and chassis are running in on my sophisticated holder: I am astonished by how smooth this chassis is running already. No fettling, no reaming, no adjustments, just a tiny drop of oil on the gearbox and axles, and this is how its running... I think its gonna be a good one! http://youtu.be/4dyktE8poyE

Incredible, one day I might stop being amazed at the things people can do in this hobby, though I highly doubt it.

Well, further to the earlier discussion about pushing out the B2B's on Romford axles. I just spoke to a very kind gentleman at 247, who explained that they are indeed square on the inside, round on the outside and are specifically to push the B2B's out to finescale standards on Romford axles. I promptly placed an order for 4 lots, and a few other bits too. A seemingly well stocked website and a very nice pleasant owner. Tom likes this! Lets hope the delivery is quick, and if it is, I may have found a very handy little supplier. When they arrive, I'll review accordingly.

Tony, the signal box looks like it was physically built brick by brick. Great modelling.

Hello chaps, between you, you've both understood immediately what I'm on about, thank you! I did indeed make it back safely, I trust the payment reached you satisfactorily? I'm working to 14.8mm B2B finescale, so they just need easing out a touch. Its really not the end of the world if they are at 14.45 or whatever, but I was intending to have FS track built when the time come to start making something. I got the gauge of these people: http://www.doubleogauge.com/shop.htm Correct, I will give them a call and see what they are all about, because I haven't the patience to make round washers square! I think they would be very handy.

Well, after a very nice break at home, its back to HK. Having seen some great models at the Nottingham show, and also a visit to see Tony at LB, I was chomping at the bit to get on with my models. I decided the SE Finecast C12 would be a good starting point, after completing the soldering on the J69. I got the chassis up and running. It needs a little tweaking, I suspect the coupling rods are at fault at this stage, but I have decided to get on with the rest of the body. I'm not entirely convinced that running a chassis in the air or with no weight is truly representative of how it will run. Whilst on the subject of the chassis, does anyone have a method for easing out the B2B's on Romford axles? I see 247 developments do a spacer, has anyone used this? Here is the current state of play with the chassis (its a High Level gearbox and Masima motor. The front. I have subsequently soldered the front footplate and smokebox in place. The cab is just placed on at present as its a bu**er to get to sit right (probably my own fault in construction!) The rear. Added lamp irons and another hand rail stanchion in the center of the bunker. And on its chassis: A great looking little loco, and a nice kit, although of course I'm not making it easy for myself! You'll notice I removed the boiler bands, I felt they were a little over scale, and I'll replace them with black insulation tape. I have also got a Hornby J52 with rear springs that need removing, and traction tyres which need removing as well. These two improvements should make it a better runner. The W1 conversion may start soon, and I'll begin with the chassis for it. Hoping for a smooth runner first time! As soon as the C12 body is complete, it, along with the J69 will go in for primer and then paint, and we'll start bringing them to life.

This all looks exceptionally complicated! No doubt you're using n gauge to its full potential. Nice work indeed

In short, no! I emailed this gentleman, and he does make fairings from some sort of rubber vinyl I think, they look very effective, but I do not think this would be possible in 4mm scale. http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/20663-british-american-loco-size-2.html

Phil - a pleasure to meet you at Nottingham by the way. I always say its better to be lucky than good, maybe thats true of pilots!? One thing for sure is that I am very lucky to be given the support and advice here on RMWeb, there is no doubt it helps improve the modelling skills.

Thank you Tony for sharing those pictures, the lighting you use really helps to set models off in the excellent scenery of LB. With regards to kit building, I hope that my efforts show that it is possible to build from kits as a beginner. It is true to say that I used Tony's teachings on the subject to get me into it, and also to aid the process of building. Needless to say, I still made some errors in construction, but I understand where I went wrong and the C12 (next project) will hopefully be a better build. Honestly, if you read this thread, and have considered but not yet tried kit building then please try it! I defy anyone not to find the process satisfying, and the sense of achievement you'll get is superb. An interesting point that I failed to grasp was the difference in motors and gearbox combinations. For some reason, I had it in my mind that one required a really big motor for best performance. Not so - we ran a number of Tony's locos of the same type but with different gearboxes and motors and the difference in performance and noise was negligible. For example a DJH GB2 with Mashima 1224 motor performed just as well as a 1626 Mashima. Obviously, if space permits (a large pacific) then of course a large motor would be a better choice, but if the loco is for less than 10 coaches then something smaller is more than sufficient. A point that is probably obvious to the more experienced, but was a bit of a revelation to me. I love the last picture of the locos lined up, they look like they are 'on shed', simmering in preparation for their next duty. Also of note was they flawless running, nothing fell off all day, unless we crashed them into each other, making for many many train movements at world record speeds. What is this hobby if we cannot have a laugh and a joke and just enjoy trains speeding by? Thank you Tony.

Dear Granthamers, What a superb layout you are creating. I said to a number of people that photographs just cannot convey the sheer size of the operation, it really does have to be seen in the flesh to comprehend it. It was excellent to meet you all too, a shame that we didn't have more time to talk, given the busy exhibition hall environment. You'll be pleased to know that the derailing of the Coronation set has been confirmed to the fitting of P4 wheels - I had no idea, so I'm grateful for the input on this. They'll be changed in due course. It was an honour to run it on the layout (poor running of my stock aside). I now have a Jubilee set to build, I'll try and fit the correct wheels this time I'm looking forward to watching this project progress over the coming years and months.

Thank you all very much for your informed replies. I'm relieved that this hasn't turned into a small suppliers bashing thread. Certainly not my intention, so thank you for taking the time to read my points. David, I think thats a superb idea, for example an online shopping arcade whereby suppliers can have an online shop all under one easy to find umbrella. Would this be feasible? John, I totally agree with you when you say that the smaller suppliers do go to great lengths to provide the parts we need. I aslo understand that many do it as a hobby, and as a side line as oppose to a profit making business model, but in my opinion if they do choose to sell to the public then there has to be a level of customer service attached to that. The decline of kit building is certainly not helped by traders with poor attitudes to customer service, and perhaps some of the declines could be stopped by utilisting the internet more, and increasing levels of promptness and service. Agreed Mike, I looked at mainly trains site briefly, and they do offer on line shopping which is great, but the range of products is patchy at best, and I fear a consumer would still ahve to visit a number of shops to get all the bits they require. The model business idea shows it could be done. Thank you John, I'm learning the craft and its very enjoyable. The two suppliers you mention that are closing down, I have never heard of. Why? Well, I use the internet and would have no way of finding their businesses. Its a great shame to see such concerns shutting, but they really do need to move with the times. I'm also glad that a modeler of your generation (if I may be so bold to use the term without offending) feels the same way I do. The convenience of online business is superb. You are right of course to mention the extra costs entailed, and also I think knowledge is also a barrier to entry. EG: how do I set up an efficient trading website? With regards to walking away from suppliers, quite often there is no alternative so one has to come back tail between legs in order to get the parts required. I suppose in many ways its a double edged sword, and where does one draw the line between a hobbyist who makes a few parts for general sale to one that advertises as a 'proper business'? The main issues that I have had have been from established names in the railway community, small concerns of course, but big enough to know better and to be better. Thank you all once again for contributing, maybe some of our small suppliers might happen to read this, and maybe if we talk about it enough word will get around and improvements will be made.

Well, not much to report of late, except to say the Coronation set is packed up ready for its 5500 mile journey to be repatriated on Friday. Hopefully, at some stage it will appear on Grantham; it'll be an honour if it does, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing that excellent layout. Amazing, I found, how much time it has taken to fine tune the running of the carriage set. I must have spent several hours ironing out little niggles that seemed to appear. I hope they are all sorted, and that they won't fall off the rails too much. On another unrelated note, I must mention customer service from suppliers in our hobby, which is rapidly becoming a bug bear of mine. I have recently been acquiring (at no small cost) parts and tools for my forthcoming projects from at least half a dozen suppliers. I don't want to turn this into a slanging match, my intention is to call for improvements in how smaller suppliers market and sell their goods, ultimately so that we buy more of their goods, in turn making them more successful. First, let me mention by name those who I felt gave excellent customer service, and the reasons why I feel their service was excellent. Dave Ellis at South Eastern Finecast was absolutely first class. He responded to my initial order promptly, processed it quickly and from initial ordering to delivery in Hong Kong took about a working week. Very impressive. I also had a couple of questions regarding the kit, and a missing part on the chassis of the W1. Dave made me up a replacement part and sent it out that afternoon. To me, his approach to customer service is the model to where this hobby needs to go, polite, courteous, and knowledgeable, Dave made sure I will be a returning customer. Good for his business and good for me as I have a supplier I can trust. The only point I would make, and this is a recurring theme, is the website. Unfortunately, it is rather basic, and could easily be improved, the ultimate being to add full online shopping, but more of that later. Fox Transfers do have a fully automated shopping website, enabling users to click and add items to a cart. I have used Fox a few times now, and they have delivered orders very quickly with no fuss whatsoever. Their website is really the template that others should follow. Simply sitting at home, browsing items and adding them to a shopping basket surely encourages more sales. Customers are in a relaxed environment and can add as much as they like to their basket probably including things they wouldn’t have ordered if they had to place orders in the old fashioned way. Eileen’s Emporium have a similar setup, and I received my goods very quickly, again all processed automatically from the comfort of my own home. Chris at High Level kits is a another example of a trader who wants his customers to be satisfied, sadly, again the website doesn’t offer online shopping, but on the phone he is as helpful as they come. Now for an example of what I think summarises what’s bad about this hobby. I placed an order for some sundry parts, a small order but my first with this particular company, the name of which is unimportant as the problem has been resolved. The order was placed by email, as instructed on their PDF catalogue. I listed the part numbers and quantities, and simply asked for a total price, which once known to me, I would call up and give my card details. The response I received left me baffled, particularly as a first time customer. Essentially, I was told that they don’t offer invoices, and that I should follow the instructions for ordering. Now where on earth did that leave me? My response having grown tired of chasing other suppliers went along the lines of ‘fine, if you don’t want my business, I’ll shop elsewhere’. A few back and forth emails ensued, and I deduced that I had to place the order and give my card details and wait to be charged whatever the seller deemed necessary. I found this odd because when I go to the newsagent and buy a mars bar and a newspaper, of course I can work out the total cost, but the vendor always confirms that cost to me before I pay. So, a very strange way of doing business in my opinion, and the nature and tone of the emailed responses indicated to me that my business wasn’t particularly valued. Now, the company in question do sell a wide variety of products, so actually my choice to go elsewhere is limited, but this is not an excuse for poor service. With other companies, I have found myself chasing them to finalise sales. I send emails, and rarely get replies, for example three emails to one supplier and no response, yet from calling them I know they have received them. Companies who do not acknowledge emails when orders are placed or do not communicate if an item is out of stock is both frustrating and a waste of time, as I feel obliged to find out what is happening. Surely if I am spending my money they should be keen to finalise the sale, not the other way round! Overall, having come into contact with quite a few different suppliers, I can say in summary that customer service is patchy at best. Some are no doubt very good, but many leave a lot to be desired, and I wonder if they operated in more mainstream sectors if they would survive at all. One element that crops up time and time again is the issue of websites. I read on these forums people bemoaning the fact that companies do not have websites that offer online ordering, or simply do not have websites. We also hear that the average age of modellers is increasing and that in order to continue to grow the hobby we need to encourage younger modellers into the fold. How do we think younger people go about things? Their first port of call is a Google search. They will look for suppliers online, they will look for suppliers with websites that contain relevant information and that offer easy online shopping. Hattons offers just such a service, easy convenient online shopping, but their main focus is RTR. What of kit manufacturers? Where are their websites? Even more of a minefield is the little bits and pieces we need for making models. When I first started out in model railway kit building, I found it almost impossible to find what I needed. It seems many companies are still firmly rooted in the past where magazine advertising and sending off for a catalogue was the normal way of doing business. My reason for posting all of this is not to slam down our smaller suppliers. Quite the opposite in fact, and thank you, by the way, for reading this far. I want to encourage our smaller suppliers to sell more of their often excellent products, and to increase their presence on the net. Internet shopping and browsing are now huge parts of our society, very few of my peers (25-35 years of age) would consider phoning an order through, or filling out an order form and sending it off. They would simply expect to do it all online. Some websites prove it can be done, I believe DJH have a fully operational internet shopping enabled site (though have not used it). Good for them. However many do not, and those that do often contain out of date information. On the flip side I do understand that these businesses are often ‘one man bands’ and simply sell a few items as a hobby, but if they are selling goods to the public then surely they have some sort of moral duty to offer decent customer service. One way to improve this would be to have the online shopping I refer to. Although there is an initial cost to setting up such a website, orders would essentially be processed automatically, the seller would simply haver to pick and send the goods, therefore improving efficiency, and probably improving sales. So my plea is simple, get online, get people buying off your websites and remember that we, as customers are giving you our hard earned money in return for the goods or services you supply. Email is the medium many of us communicate with, so please, respond promptly to them or answer your phone. Good customer service, good communications and reasonable delivery would ensure customer satisfaction, and hopefully encourage repeat business and recommendations. Personally, I want to buy the products that are out there but recently have felt quite a lot of resistance in doing so. Complete newcomers to the hobby could easily be put off by this poor approach, so I hope some of my observations will be taken on board.

Hows this coming along Mike? I 're-found' this looking for alternatives in cellulose for Garter Blue, so I'm interested to see the Vallejo paint you have used, as I really like spraying their paint. I might do some experiments and see how your mix compares to Pheonix Precision Garter Blue.

How might you go about it? I have seen people carve plastic aeroplane fuselages to give a rippled effect... Perhaps this might translate into carving or shaping white metal? But a brass tender? I have no idea...

Yep, me too. Being able to remove the wheels several times as I figured my way through my first chassis was invaluable. Maybe in time I would use Gibson wheels when I'm a bit more confident with my chassis building. Someone else mentioned about manufacturers websites. I've been challenged on my views on this in the past. I think it is essential for businesses to have good websites, that enable full online shopping and check out. Now, I am aware that many of our suppliers are small businesses, but if they are online, I wish their websites were better. Its a cost of doing business these days. Invariably my first port of call is a Google search. Its hard enough finding the bits and pieces you need for kit building, let alone when manufacturers aren't online or have poor websites with little or no information. That's fine for seasoned pro's but for us mere mortals, a bit of info is appreciated. So, please, get online and help us find and buy your products!!

John, I was very much the same. Felt inspired and confident enough to have a go, and now wondering why on earth I didn't start earlier! Word of warning - it gets addictive, so watch out because shiny new kit boxes will be calling out to you!! The soldering looks good to me!

I just made a payment to Poppy Tech for one of their jigs. I agree, it takes some of the guess work out of the whole operation, and really, a square chassis is the only way to get decent running.

They look super, Mick.

Hello Everyone, Following on from my Coronation build, I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread for my builds so they're all together in one place. On the workbench currently, I have my London Road Models J69. Its my first loco kit and went together very nicely. This morning, I soldered on the connecting rods, and its being run in as we speak. Here's a video of it on the test track, copied over from Tony's thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqW9KjEVoz0 I made it hard for myself though, so the decent running is despite my workmanship, not because of it. Because I made the chassis slightly out of square, to get the wheels to turn freely, I have had to open up the bearings too much allowing slop to creep in. This makes the wheels move too much. However, and this is the big however, it still works well, and actually, once the body is on, its impossible to see the wheel movement. Anyway, that's all my excuses out of the way! I'll take it with me to Nottingham, and will let Tony and the Grantham boys cast their scorn opinions over it. Here it is as of this morning. Doesn't digital photography make things look dreadful? Anyway, detail has been added, all I need to do is attach the smoke box door, fit the cab roof and add some liquid lead to give it a bit more weight. The 1428 motor is a real squeeze but it gives it a bit of oomph. The next projects are also starting to come to fruition. Two lovely red boxed from Dave Ellis at South Eastern Finecast. Dave gave great service; from ordering on the Friday to delivery here in HK on Tuesday. Thank you! The plan is to build the C12 with some form of High Level gearbox (not sure which one yet) and the biggest motor I can find. I'll probably add a flywheel too due to the short wheelbase. I may source replacement buffers as the ones provided are white metal and I would like sprung. The W1 is a little more of a challenge. Now, I could have just built the W1 kit, but alas, that's too simple. I heard the shape was a little off, so that ruled out that option. Next was to get a Hornby A4, do a cut and shut job on it using Graeme King's resin conversion. However, I really wanted a nice, home made chassis, with big powerful motor, smooth gearbox and nicer wheels, so that ruled that option out. In the end, I decided to get the W1 chassis and tender, the A4 body from Hornby and the resin parts and do a hybrid version. More work, of course, but more fun, and I have the satisfaction of building the chassis. Gearbox will be a High Level High Flier at 30:1. Motor will be a Mashima 1626 or 1628, giving a top speed in the region of 95-103 MPH. That should do! So, I just need to finalise the arrangements for the drive trains, and figure out the additional parts I need, and I will be almost good to go. As an insurance measure, I've purchased a Poppy Jig for the chassis construction, as I want really tight square chassis from now on. Thanks for looking in, hope the thread will be informative, but please don't expect rapid updates, I'm a slow builder! Tom

Hi Mick, where'd you get the bell for the Dominion of Canada? Cheers Tom

Wheel wise I'd certainly be happy to try the Gibson type. Up to now I have only used Romfords, due to ease of quartering. I tend to find a few 'dry runs' fitting the axles to the wheels loosens things up enough to avoid problems attaching them. On another note, here's the J69 after a few tweaks. By no means perfect, but it goes forwards and backwards, reasonably quietly, and has excellent slow speed control, due to the 80:1 High Level kits gearbox and Mashima motor. It works despite, not because of my workmanship, and the kit chassis should take all the credit for allowing me to build it square enough to work. I have made mistakes on this build, entirely my own fault. But the next one will be better. Sorry for the poor mobile phone video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqW9KjEVoz0