LMS2968

Some LNWR Claughtons got 135 degree cranks too.

'Necessary' and 'Desirable' aren't always the same thing. Design of anything, including steam locomotives, is always a compromise, and each configuration, two, three and four cylinders has its own advantages - and disadvantages. Robin Riddles went for the simplicity and ease of servicing / preparation of two outside cylinders, but needed three to get the power for a Class 8 Pacific. This also gives more even torque, but four cylinders give better balancing and help eliminate weights and hammerblow (yes, I do know about Bulleid's system). It all depends . . .

18 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Horny Dublo. Is that the risque vesion?😉

 

Three Rail.

Ideal for DCC

No frog switching, No reversing modules needed etc.

Not at my time of life.

Just now, Wickham Green too said:

C'mon ...... put yer modeller's hat on and suggest installing the latest - not necessarily appropriate - sound file from XYX Digital !

Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well with Horny Dublo three rail!

Or a gramophone and a stack of Transacord records?

42 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The Brighton did something similar when an electric London-Brighton Railway was proposed: a demonstration run on a Sunday to show that steam could easily match the proposed electric schedule; it was only the density of traffic that prevented it from being routine, or so they argued.

Likewise the L&Y with Albert Hoy's 2-6-2Ts, intended to work the Liverpool - Southport services to the electrics' timings while the line was being electrified. They could do it too, but were redundant once the e.m.u's. were fully available and were then relegated to shunting, for which they were totally unsuited and so earned a poor reputation.

So how did an inside cylinder 2-6-2T get into a discussion of outside cylinder 0-6-0 tender engines? Not a clue!

And a special like for JVol4140!

52 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

May I once again correct a myth; the issue with the 4F axleboxes was LMS parsimony in choice of lubricant. 

I'll agree that lubricant was an issue but so too was the design of the axleboxes, particularly in relation to the bearing surface area. It was marginal on the 4Fs and they did tend to run hot more often than other classes, but I'll agree that this tendency has been much exaggerated and overstated by many writers; generally the 4F were a decent, reliable engine. It was when these boxes were applied to the Austin 7s and Garretts that the real troublers arose as they were incapable of absorbing the piston thrusts of these much bigger engines.

7 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But that was not why railways were fenced.  in fact it was the exact opposite - the landowners wanted railway lines fenced in order to prevent people on the railway gaining access to their land.

 

Really? I always thought it was to prevent the trains getting out and running amok on the farmers' land!

It was one of the variations of LMS Standard 3500 gallon type, often referred to wongly as 'Fowler' type, derived from Midland types. Almost certainly black below the grime.

No, Titan has already solved it. No need for an investigation.

David, I think JVol4126 is 8035. The highest numbered 8F was 8775 (or 48775 if you insist!).

3 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

Condensing was also used on desert railways, for the same reason as on steamships (no fresh water supply). There was usually some kind of radiator in a tender to cool the exhaust steam sufficiently.  They would need to get the oil out of it too, or the boiler would prime horribly.

That was a different situation; it was entirely to reduce the water consumption where none was otherwise available, and I believe the saving was between 60% and 80%. The feed water heaters were to improve loco efficiency and the condensers (in Britain) were to reduce fumes in tunnels. 

The condensing tenders were sometimes bigger and heavier than the engines they had to serve.

Condensers were usually fitted to engines regularly and frequently working through extended tunnels, e.g. the underground. The rise in water temperature in the tanks from their use was sufficient to demand the application of a feed pump in addition to the injectors which were used outside the tunnels.

It tended to improve loco, especially boiler, efficiency but if you had an engine which was already pretty efficient, as measured as a steam engine, it lost much of its effect. The standard 9Fs were already pretty good so the effect of the Crosti boiler were not very significant.

In BR days and earlier boilers generally had a working life of five years. This could be extended by a year after examination by a senior boiler inspection, and in exceptional circumstance by a further year, also after inspection. This formed the basis of the seven year main line ticket. Off the main line, the ticket became ten years, but cold and hot exams were required. The periods between boiler changes was often less with express engines which, because of their diagrams, accrued higher mileages and more wear to boilers.

Shoppings were dependent on the loco condition and the type of overhaul on a 'what was needed' basis. On the LMS, a Black Five would need an Intermediate overhaul at around 55,000 to 65,000 miles, by which time axleboxes, motion and springs would be in poor condition but the boiler serviceable, and a Heavy at about twice that. The were criteria for deciding if a repair was 'Heavy' depending on what needed to be changed. A boiler lift, as an example although there were others, classed the repair as Heavy, but it might be a Heavy Intermediate. A Heavy General replaced or repaired almost everything.

Stokers on ships, firemen on locos.

Exhaust steam injectors were wonderful things - when they worked, which was a long way from always. Rather temperamental little bu@@ers!

In the very early days, feed water was supplied to tender tanks preheated. These are the watering facilities at Parkside on the Liverpool & Manchester Railway with the chimney for the water heater issuing smoke. In those days, the water was delivered to the boiler by feed pumps but Mons Giffard stopped all that when he invented the injector; the water must be cold for these to work.

They enginemen worked diagrams and engines were allocated to a different diagram. Sometimes these overlapped and the crew would have a home-based engine at the start of the day, but their diagram might take them part way into a working then return with a later part of a working the other way, their first engine continuing on its way. The engine now on the front could be from anywhere. 

Anthony J Robinson in Dad had an Engine Shed (2010) Oakwood Press ISBN 978 0 85361 707 5 Recalls a situation one of his father's Black Fives was found by coincidence: it had been missing for weeks but, was seen as they passed, I think, Bletchley on their way south. It had been commandeered by another shed. This wasn't uncommon and the victim often returned only when due for a washout and X Day exam.

29 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Thanks for that. How long do you think a freight train loco might have them open? 5 seconds?

It can vary by a lot. An engine starting its day with the cylinders cold will condense some of the steam back to liquid water. While gas has a variable volume depending on pressure (and temperature), a liquid has a constant volume. This means that with the cylinder full of steam -  a gas - the steam will compress as the piston moves towards the cylinder cover; if there is water in there it cannot do this and simply piles up between the cylinder cover and piston. If the volume of the water is greater than the clearance volume between piston and cover, something has to give. So if starting from cold and the cylinder is at ambient temperature, some steam will condense but the incoming steam will gradually raise the cylinders' temperature until the point where condensation no longer occurs. It takes time to heat up a mass of cast iron such as a cylinder block so the taps might be open for several minutes. On the contrary, if the engine has been stopped for a few minutes at a signal, there will be condensate in the cylinders, which will still be hot, and a few revolutions of the wheels with the taps open will clear it. 

Another issue is priming. An overfilled boiler or one containing impure water is likely to carry water over with the steam. The driver will hear the change in the exhaust note and will immediately open the taps to avoid a hydraulic lock in the cylinders, even if moving at speed.

There are no hard and fast rules; it all depends on circumstances.

So that's a bubblecar!

The Castle was unloaded head north, so unless it's visited KR Turntable . . . Don't know about the others.

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

Volunteers will often moan about the management but I have to say I have never heard or seen anything like the animosity towards Helen Smith ever before.

You don't remember the Gerald Nabaro episode of 1970?

The SMF stand will be in the Nursery building at KR. I don't know about others.