R Marshall

PS - I should have said something about timeframes, which will help for livery choices. These five types were used with class Q6 from:

A - 1913;

B - 1932;

C - 1932;

D - 1917;

E - 1918.

So NELPG's earlier finish of 63395 as 2238 in NER black was inaccurate in a number of respects and should only be used to represent the preserved state at that time.

FAO Dave at DJM, in particular:

Dave,

I don't know whether this is the best thread to use for this - please advise.

I've been looking through my copy of "Locomotives of the LNER Part 6C" by RCTS, which gives good coverage of his class. I wondered what tender version, or versions, you might produce. I'm interested in the N Gauge model, but these comments apply to any Q6 model (see pp 47-49 of Part 6C).

Five different tenders were used with the class - for convenient reference I'll list them A - E and confine myself to visual differences:

- A) - 3940 gallons, D shaped tender frame slots, coal rails around back of tender, width over sides 7' 5", depth of tank 4' 3" ;

- B)  - B - 4125 gallons, D shaped tender frame slots, coal rails around back of tender, width over sides 7' 5", depth of tank 4' 9" ;

- C) - 4125 gallons, oval tender frame slots, coal rails around back of tender, width over sides 7' 5", depth of tank 4' 9" ;

- D) - 4125 gallons, oval tender frame slots, coal rails to back of coal space, width over sides 7' 10", depth of tank 4' 9" ;

- E) - 4125 gallons, oval tender frame slots, coal rails curved down behind coal space, width over sides 7' 10", depth of tank 4' 9" .

I haven't dealt here with the issue of which tenders were self-trimming - this might be significant, depending on how much of the interior you plan to model - maybe a bigger issue for OO?

There were many changes of tender between this class and others (notably Class C7 - the NER Z Atlantics) from 1932 right up to 1954 and this complicates matters.

I guess you'll want to choose a tender version which gives the widest range of locomotives over time, to allow livery variations, etc - in my judgement this is probably version A, used on the earliest NER built batch of 30 locos and, with transfers from B13s, B15s and Q5s amounted to 48 locos eventually. I guess you won't want too much variation in tooling, but unfortunately the preserved loco seems to have version B (I'll look into how and when) and modelling 63395 seems essential. However, the difference would be only in the height of the tender tank - perhaps this would be bearable?

The extensive swapping of tenders will mean that a photo of any planned loco should be consulted, confirming the tender in use at the chosen livery timeframe.

I hope this is helpful - happy to discuss. I'll turn my attention to other detail variations on the locomotives next (all credit to RCTS, by the way).

That's very impressive!

The signal looks much better now you've covered the base. Can you get upper quadrant versions too?

Dave, great pictures once again - especially like the Hexham shot. Seasons Greetings!

Great pictures - especially the snow scene. The Kirkby Stephen shot had me for a minute - till I realised it was Kirkby Stephen West! North Eastern bias will out, I'm afraid.

Les, my first thought was that Ingleton - Staindrop is a big area - but of course there's a hamlet to the East of Staindrop by that name. No sign of farms or villages so callled on the OS Landranger series. However, Never Seen and Seldom Seen are marked on an old County Durham map in a loop of the River Wear between Willington and Newfield and near the Tod Hill Incline - see https://sites.google.com/site/waggonways/nz/20/nz2030

Dave,

I'm relatively new to the site and just stumbled on this thread - magnificent pictures - many thanks.

I'm a bit worried though, having spent most of today helping prepare a certain little green tank engine at Leeming Bar (thoroughly enjoyable, despite day-long drizzle), I'm starting to like 66s!

I'll get over it, I guess.

We'll head north this evening to have a look at Pilmoor, on the ECML north of York.

 

Pilmoor Class 45 D106 Bristol to Newcastle May 67 J0886.jpg

Pilmoor Class 45 D106 Bristol to Newcastle May 67 J0886

 

 

Pilmoor Class 47 D1100 down cement May 67 J0887.jpg

Pilmoor Class 47 D1100 down cement May 67 J0887

 

 

Pilmoor WD 90309 down goods May 67 J0880.jpg

Pilmoor WD 90309 down goods May 67 J0880

This train was the highlight of the afternoon on Saturdays for me.

 

 

Pilmoor Class 20 working in up direction on down fast removing damaged cement wagon August 1967 J1060.jpg

Pilmoor Class 20 working in up direction on down fast removing damaged cement wagon August 1967 J1060

This was the clear up after the cement train derailed which was then hit by DP2

 

David

What sort of Brake Van is that behind the 47? Looks like something from Southern Region? If this happened in steam days, I've got an excuse for a Farish pillbox. Any ideas, please?

Les,

Love the teapot.

Didn't know that about the Co-Bos.

According to RCTS Part 5, only J26s had round cab spectacles - all J27s and some 22 J26s had been converted to the same shape as Q6s. So, as you say, difficult to tell the difference unless it has circular cab spectacles, or you know the number range of each class (J26 65730-65779; J27 65780-65894). What was that about geeks?

Regards,

Roy

John,

I'm not clear on what you're saying with this, Hesleden and Hesleden Bank are between Hart and Castle Eden. Do you mean somewhere on the NCB line that used to run past Cold Hesledon East-West?

Roy

Les,

I've been looking for an excuse (if one were needed!) to run my D20 North along the line. All of the recorded D20 workings from West Hartlepool, that I can find, reference the Leeds Northern line via Eaglescliffe and Northallerton and I've pictures of 62372 in Marsh Lane Cutting at Leeds (light engine, but showing a Stopping Passenger headlamp code - probably returning from servicing at Neville Hill) and Southbound at Eaglescliffe (the shot only shows 2 vans behind the tender - the rest of the train isn't visible).

However, Another picture of 62380 (a Tweedmouth engine!) has at least 8 coaches behind the tender, setting out Northbound from West Hartlepool. Puzzling.

Roy

Les,

Seeing your teaser, I've been browsing that Darlington District freight working 1953 leaflet of NERA - probably the one you want (if they have produced it) is Newcastle District, which will cover Sunderland, I guess.

One small crumb of comfort is that West Hartlepool had a working WH15 - mineral empties, or XPOs (could this be NCB ex PO colliery wagons, or something from Steetley?) from Cemetery North to Tyne Dock (timed departure at 09.00).

More interestingly, there was WH28 (Dep. 06.15) goods and empties to Easington (where Seaham traffic was detached) and Hawthorne (sic) Quarry (Arr. 08.00). This must mean that coal traffic was coming South through Hawthorn Dene. There is no loaded equivalent shown, which suggests that Sunderland engines were working the full trains at least as far as Easington. The train was to be marshalled for Dawdon, Seabanks (sic), Seaham Goods, South Dock and mineral empties (the last for points further North, or Easington more likely?). A 09.25 departure on the same working went no further than Easington.

Secondly, all the J26s were shedded on Teeside - your 0-6-0 at Dawdon will be a J27, I think.

Just for clarity, West Hartlepool shed closed at the same time as Sunderland (17.09.67) and final allocation was 2 x Q6 and 7 x WDs - I can't say how they were used, but it would be surprising if they didn't serve the collieries. I've got a picture of a WD with loaded 21T hoppers at Newburn in June 1967. And a West Hartlepool Q6 on Hesleden bank in February 1967 with empties.

Seaham and points North seem to have been served from South Dock as stated above.

As for wish lists, I'd like to see UM attempt an inside cylindered tank engine - How about an NER Class W (LNER A6)? The coupled wheelbase is only 2" shorter than the NER tender wheelbase. Obviously using the driving wheels to substitute for a tender drive and the bogie/trailing truck for pickup would be a challenge. They look great in BR lined black.

Alternatively, I'd second the appeal for a NER Class I or J.

I've included pictures of my D20 and 2 x J26 - The etched coal rails were produced by Bob Jones of Fence Houses Model Foundry, if anyone is interested, and the paint finish is by Simon Howard of Durham Trains of Stanley.

Les,

Bless you for the Q6 then!

I'll want two, at least

Regards,

Roy Marshall

Les,

A little more digging revealed COVHOPS at Coxhoe with 51C shedded Q6s evident. I guess these would have come in via Station Town and Castle Eden, though . CONFLAT Ls were also used. See attachments.

I hope to see Hawthorn Dene at one of the NE shows.

Are your A3s Dapol? If so how do they run?

Regards,

Roy Marshall

Les,

I'm late to this, so I hope you're still progressing. I'm also very interested in the Durham Coast line (in N Gauge).

You mention COVHOPs going to Bristish Steel and ICI, but I saw lots of them go to and from Steetley at West Hartlepool. I think they may have come from Thrislington and probably by a Southern approach, unfortunately. But perhaps they also travelled further North on the Coast line.

A couple of thoughts on sources, if you still need any:

- The North Eastern Railway Association produces a number of inexpensive booklets - Line Diagrams of the NER Stockton - Hartlepool - Sunderland - Newcastle; Workings of Local Freight Trains.... Darlington District 1953; Passenger Locomotive Working Darlington, Newcastle and Sunderland Districts 1948 all give useful background, though I realise they're a bit early for your setting. Google will help to update the line diagrams (1920s) but relevant photos will help show what infrastructure was still current in the 1960s.

- Pictorial sources abound on the Web - Time Capsules as part of the Photo Forums website is free - if you look for a contributor called Chris Davies, he has lots of pictures of NE England including a set showing a WD tour including Hawthorn Colliery - definitely worth the trouble.

Regards,

Roy Marshall