rue_d_etropal

I do wonder sometimes if we are trying to put the cart before the horse by modelling to a limited number of scales, when we could just change the scale for different models, assuming they are being usedon different layouts. It makes sense for traditional manufacturers to limit the number of scales they offer, and only target the most popular. Now with 3D printing it is possible to produce models to virtually any scale, and it is something I have been looking at . I got into 3D printing because I wanted to build a WW1 themed layout in 1/35th scale using 16.5mm gauge as that was very close to correct scale gauge. I was then asked to resize for O scale, and then you start to appreciate differences in gauges and the compromises that have to be done. Most WW1 wagons were narrow, not much wider than the track gauge so increasing the scale gauge means increasing width of wagon chassis, and sometimes that means increasing width of wagon body. This not only makes it not to scale but can alter appearence. The same applies to OO9. Oddlyusing a gauge less than scale width for narrow gauge can look OK, just look at Pempoul by Gordon and Maggie Gravett. AsI said, I have ben researching using different scales, and for Irish 5ft 3in, came up with a scale of 3.14mm/ft, which is still pretty close to 1/100 scale socan use all the non railway accessories from wargame suppliers, often known as 15mm size. 9mm gauge is still close enough for 3ft gauge as it is less than half mm under gauge. Another scale to consider for Irish 5ft 3in gauge is 1/50 as 32mm gauge is very close, certainly as close as standard gauge in 1/43 scale. With 1/35th scale, 2ft gauge obviously can use 16.5mm track etc, and 45mm gauge is pretty close to scale 5ft3in gauge, and only about 1.5mm out for representing 5ft gauge(Russia and Finland) and there are plastic kits available for Russian gauge wagons(another project I am considering). 1/48th scale is an established scale for narrow gauge, and 5ft gauge comes out at 31.75mm, which is so close to 32mm again, and it is becoming a popular scale in military model kits. 16.5mm gauge then is ok for 2ft 6in narrow gauge, and probably could use a lot of the r2r and kit models available. With a bit of care 16.5mm could be used to model 5ft gauge. The scale works out at 1/92 , which is still near enough to 1/100, and there are also quite a lot of under scale HO building kits out there(eg early Juouef,Faller). Now another common gauge workd wide is 5ft 6in (and its very close Iberian gauge), and that is spot on 3mm/ft for 16.5mm gauge. 9mm can then be used for metre gauge. 6.5mm gauge could then be used for 2ft 6in gauge. The main prolem in the past has been fitting large motors in small models , but that is getting easier these days with smaller motors available. With care r2r chassis can be used.Tender locos and bogie elelectric and diesels/railcars are easier than tank locos. So there is a lot of choice, why do we limit ourselves to a small number of scales?

most designs can be offered in finer plastic, all it needs is for someone to ask. also any good modeller can smooth down the rough surface if they know how, again just ask , and remember the surface on the real coaches was not that smooth, being wood in many cases, and by the time they were non overhead powered they were pretty well worn.

Richard, I am trying to help people, by giving them a start place, the loco body. I have found that some seem to appreciate that and are willing to sort out a chassis themselves. I could just do designs that fit r2r chassis, but from experience in the hobby, there are 2 big problems. Sometimes designs have to be changed dramatically, so it becomes a freelance design, or(and sometimes 'and') manufacturers stop producing a loco or change the design making it difficult to source that chassis. The old Triang TT chassis is not that bad, it is another option. I am not telling people to use this or that. Part of the hobby is solving problems, unless people prefer a hobby where you just follow the instructions. Even then kit building can be too difficult for some. I have found kits are sometimes more difficult than scratchbuilding. HO is just one of the scales I do designs for. One big advantage of 3D printing is that models can be done in virtually any scale, opening up the hobby, not restricting it to the scales the traditional manufacturers want us to use.

I did a design for one ofthe 2SL a while back. http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-sr/3d_printed_2sl.htm I was thinking of also doing the 2WIM as it is very similar.

I doubt if it is deliberate, more likely having someone design a system that is too complex when all it needs to be is simple (how often do they actually need to add new products?) .As a result it probably cost then more than it should, and as many have found, it is not as easy to use as it should be, so probably loses them business, directly and indirectly. One simple idea might be to make the catalogue possible to download, which is now the normal way for many hobby companies in Europe, including regular update leaflets(I get many of thes either directly from manufacturers, or via Gaugemaster).

HO scale 5ft3in has been done. At least one article in magazines a few years ago, but for me EM is more difficult, One reason I support British HO is that I can use easy to get track and mechanisms. Finding a chassis to fit this loco would be difficult, but irronically the Terrier chassis is pretty close to many standard 5ft 3in gauge locos, and for a tender loco, motor can be in the tender. I suppose with a tank loco, I could have a permantly attached motorized wagon. I enjoy a challenge, but only one I believe I can complete, even if I have to change the rules to suit. If I can find something to build my ideas on then I will grow those ideas. It might be easier to follow the crowd, but that can be boring and I don't enjoy being bored.

thanks Ian, I was also wondering about the rish one which would require bufferes moving out a bit and maybe the wheel splashes moving slightly so the true 5ft 3in can be modelled! Iwould need to find a small enough chassis though to fit my 3.14mm/ft version,

One advantage the new chassis has, is the representation of under belly of boiler, so probably could get away with that, as there is some daylight underneath. Design finished and up and ready http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_sg-trains1.htm Another chassis that would fit is the old Triang TT Jinty with 16.5m gauge wheels(I converted one many years ago using Romford wheels). Only problem is that the motor ends up in cab.

Ian, what amazed me was that when I resized the original drawng to HO, the Terrier chassis was near enough spot on, jus need to remove part of chassis one end(and then reconnect pickups that end).The position of motor might be a problem visually, which is why the newr chassis might be better, but obviously more expensive. My design is based on the KESR version. Looking at the LSWR Beattie book, there were quite a few changes and mods over the years, but most were hidden under the saddle tank. Hopefully will have design finished today. One reason I do the occasional loco, especially singe version ones as I am doing with this one , is that they can be done relatively quick, so make a change from more varied designs which require more research. Luckily anything with a colonel Stephens connection is well documented, mainly thanks to Les Darbyshire, although it is always a good idea to have some photos of the real thing.

I'mworking on another loco design which should fit the OO Terrer chassis, after seeing the very pricey OO model reviewd in RM this month. Hiding the motor is biggest problem, so maybe the new Hornby Terrier might be better.

That would be American OOI think, which was around a few years ago before HO took over. Seriously , I think the way some think of 3D printing as a low cost alternative is misguided. It might be possible to ge price down, but it still s not a fast process, so mass production of complee models is difficult. Where 3D printing does score high, and that is its ability to produce models only when required, so there is no need to build up stock, which might not sell. Those models can be obscure designs that would never be commercially viable for traditional manufacture.Main reason I have gone down the 3D design path. Comparing the way 2D printing has developed with the potential way 3D printing could develop is also a bit misguided. Yes we can print pages of stuff , but on the whole it is only a few pages at a time. Print out a few hunded pages of a book, at the same quality as a traditionally printed book and it is not so quick. And then you run out of inkor tone half way through! In my researc for scale drawings, I came across a review of Jaycraft resin loco bodies, from 1978. In many ways their design is very similar to 3D printed models, but with the limitations that resin casting had at the time. I remember reading about them at the time, I think because they had one loco I was interested in, but I never bought one(not sure how easy they were to get hold of), and then Mainline introduced the loco I was interested in so I forgot about them. Now "19mm gauge track will be the next big thing, mark my words!",actually looking at new gauges ad scales, that would be difficult for traditional manufacturing. I ould like to see Peco producing 14mm an 21mm gauge track, as itnot only would have uses for standard gauge but also narrow gauge. Far too much comprome in traditionally produced models , and that is possibly restricting the hobby. With 3D printing virtually any scale on any gauge is possible. This is more important that just feeding the existing 'limited' market. What will prbably really change the way tradition models are prduced is 3D scanning. When it is possible to scan small models then it will be impossible to stop it, and traditional manufacture will find it a lot tougher, initially, and may have to just look at design rather thanmanufacture.

I have been working on 3D printed coaches for various railways under Colonel Stephens , and as a member of the Colonel Stephen society have had quite a bit of help and positive response http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-lt/3d_printed_WCPR_Small_Railcar.htm It is partly thanks to Colonel Stephens that some old coaches survived long enough for those interested enough to record them . Just a pity the 2 ex Royal coaches(one in the photo) did not survive.

8 different versions of classic GWR Siphon G milk/parcels van now up and running http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_sg-trains3.htm another request, this time for some LYR 6 wheel coaches. Had to d quite a lot of digging, as the basic drawings are a bit basic, but hopefully I have got them correct. Just a start, more to do.Plan to do a lot more LYR coaches. As usual available in several scales, and this time also 2mm/ft . http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-lms/3d_printed_L-Y-steam-railmotor.htm

That confirms what I thought. Pity those dimensions are not actually in the new book about Sentinel, especially as it is this railmotor that is on the cover. No matter, part of the fun is trying to work out the bits which are unclear. At least with the railmotos Sentinel tended to use more standard parts, even if they did evolve over those first years. I think the 1933 rebuild was more to do with the luggage area. An old photo showing it in original H-Z days shows the opposite side without the extra window. In final years one photo show passengers(railway workers?) crowded in that area and even on outside steps , although that might be because they want a quick get away as the train is approaching a station platform.Also as that was only entrance for passenger, maybe it was modified more for pasenger use, not luggage. Would be interesting to see how the restored railmotor comes out, although they have already fitted non Sentinel buffers which is a pity, but understandable. I have become a bit wary of preserved railay stock,as it is often 'restored' in a non original way, so can not be relied on when looking for detail for designing a model.

it's a nice idea, bur I wonder if any manufacturer would consider a r2r model, unless some enterprising presrvatio society was proposing to build a replica. Look at many of the new r2r models , and there are a lot based either on preserved examples or replica builds. Of course, if someone here has the cash to fund a new model, I would not stop them. Alternatively, as has been mentioned here there are my designs on Shapeways. Thanks to this thread I have been made aware of the differences in the coaches and altered the designs for the articulated sets. Ideally I would have liked a scale drawing(does the Mike King one show all versions, as the pushpull book only has those versions), but have managed to use one of the photos to estimate sizes of windows. I am also interested in doing one of the original steam railmotors, asuming I can find drawings. I have ordered a copy of the MRC with drawings of railmotor no 3, and hopefully it is better than the smaller drawing, also done by Rush in his book on steam railmotors.

had a quick look, I am in no hurry. The Sentinel interested me partly because it was in the recent book about Sentinel. Finding a source of Spanish railway magazines online might be useful.

I would think an induction heater would be better. Far more efficient, and a lot quicker to heat up initially. With built in safety devise so that if water runs out it just switches off.

After assuming it must be only 9ft wide, I did my design , but it did not look right. Checking the Sentinel book,and it was more likely to have ben 10ft wide, as that seems to be their standard for 5ft 6in gauge(or near). Odd that the Sri Lankan one was only 9ft wide, but that was also only 12ft hight to top of roof, wheras this one was 13ft. Worked through design again, and it looks better. I have found lots of photos online. I think it was a popular subject in final years. Seems to have been painted green then, but also found a photo in red/cream . Found another photo in Z-H days and the odd window on side next to double doors is not there. Probably put ina part of 1933 rebuild, which might not have been that much. The coloured illustration in Sentinel book, which is also on cover, shows it in red, but no railway identifier, so presume this is as it was delivered. On subject of buffere to buffer distance, I checked one of my Electrotren locos (current Hornby low cost one) and its buffers work out at 2 metres apart, which is one reason why it looks ok in bigger scale with OO. In my onine searces came across a collction of photos showing older railcars, quite a mixture of French ,Italian and German ones. Would be nice to find some drawings as ome are very stylish, and difficult to scratchbuild so ideal for 3D printing.

One of my other interests has been collecting old travel guides, and I have some on Paris. Unfortunately can't find them at the moment. Some are definitely at my house in France , so can't get at those.

Found this website. Looks like the Sentinel is being restored now. http://mundo-ferroviario.es/index.php/historia/41866-las-tracciones-termica-y-electrica-en-renfe-x-un-automotor-singular-renfe-9091 Done a bit of work based on that outline drawing. Basic dimensions on drawing are OK. Worked out it is 9ft wide(standard for Sentinel at the time). Front end is identical to LNER one, except the Spanish one is taller above windows with same roof. I estimated cab back as far as luggage area is same as well. But the drawing does not match this, so working from photos and using GIMP produced what I think is scale side image. The chimneyand coal hopper behind it are similar to that on the Sri Lankan one, which is actually only same height as the LNER one. One of my GIMP iages showed that the bogies are as thought, 7ft and 6ft 6in wheelbases, not 2.5metres which looks like a common wheelbase for Spanish coaches. It certainly makes it easier from a design point of view having some features common to different versions. I also found out that Spanish buffer to buffer distance is 2 metres, which is only just possible with this railmotor.

nowfor something completely different,the Barnum and Bailey rolling stock,with a little bit of help from old MRC articles. http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_barnum-bailey.htm

had not realised freight yars were there. makes sense in the age when freight went by rail and passengers were just an extra, something we need to look at again seriously. I visited Paris around about 1981 and don't remember seeing any railway yard, not that I was looking though. Found a part copy of one of the brochures online, with map showing location in Paris. It shows the two stations nearest the site. I have a couple of old travel books aout Paris, I will hae to dig them out. I also found a copy online of the book written at the time about the tour up to but not including Paris. Interestingly it has the photo taken In Paris with the horses near to the Eiffel Tower. The maps are not that clear(unfortunately not helped being printed in lack and white), but the itinery is included. A TV series following in the footsteps of the UK and European tour would be interesting, possibly an idea for Great Continental Railway Journeys.

thanks, I agree the metric dimentions look odd, but it was rebuilt in the 30s. Having said that I found a similar drawing for one which ran on Sri Lanka, which being 5ft 6in gauge would be about same size and that had a 7ft bogie at front and 6ft 6in one at back, and has a longer body. Would think the Spanish one was 9ft wide, as that is what Sri Lankan one was. There are a lot of similarities with the Sri Lankan one. The casing behind chimney is the same, not something that common.

thanks, knew someone would come up with info.

Currently working on some designs for the train from Barnum and Bailey Greatest Show on Earth European tour(1897 - 1902), and some of best photos I have seen are of the train in Paris , with Eiffel Tower in background. Just wondering if there are any more photos out there, or guides from the show in Paris or other parts of France. Am I right in thinking it is on same site as 1900 exhibition as it looks similar. Also how did trains get to location, are there standard gauge sidings that near to the Eiffel Tower? First photo in this web page is interesting https://www.themetrains.com/rbbb-circus-trains-roster-1897-1902-the-barnum-and-bailey-european-train.htm Also any info on how the train toured Europe in particular France.