Edwardian

Don, spot on, and you are not alone in having this problem!

Well, indeed. I meant simply that the interest, hence the knowledge, of most tended to the later period, and I think this is why the idea, currently being discussed in the Pre-Grouping section of the site, that there are topics there on RTR releases, is a good one. Andy Y closed the last one for duplication (!) but I think if it is understood that this is a bunch of pre-Groupers discussing the merits or otherwise of RTR releases from their perspective, we might get some, slightly, more focussed discussion!

So I gather. Ron Rising seems to have built everything. The track - soldered to PCB - the locomotives and rolling stock, and, of course, the buildings and landscape. When it came to Ormesby c.1995, it had to be re-configured for viewing from the outside. This appears to have involved an extension that allowed the incorporation of a hitherto-standalone model of a farm. The additional permanent way sections blend in perfectly, and can only really be detected by close study, which reveals Peco lineside fencing and SMP chaired track. The buildings either side of the line are all original, so I think the only structure built after the reconfiguration is the handsome stone viaduct. It is recorded that Ron Rising visited the newly installed layout and expressed himself satisfied with the changes. Makes me just want to chuck Castle Aching in the bin!

Yesterday I had a lovely trip out to Ormesby Hall, a fine Palladian House near Middlesborough. It hosts a pre-Grouping layout in the form of the late Ron Risings' Corfe Castle. For those, like me, hitherto, ignorant on the subject, Mr Rising contributed a number of buildings to the Vale on a very well-known model railway! You can tell. The Ormesby Hall volunteers have done a very skilful job in re-arranging and extending the scene. The wonderful curved section from the station round to the viaduct is stunning. The result: A sunny summer scene on the old South Western, c.1920. I have fallen for this layout in a big way:

Jonathan, Thanks muchly. It was a good afternoon on Sunday, not least because I managed to fit in an hour round the house (Palladian architecture being an early enthusiasm of mine), and I was rather smitten by Corfe Castle! It was a pleasure to see you again, and thank you for the wagon building tips. I have ordered a copy of the wagon book, made very easy and economical thanks to your link, and will drop Mr Pinnock a line. I look forward to seeing the article on the Midland coaches. All the best, James

Excellent station. I look forward to progress and pictures!

That is extremely helpful, thank you. I only had the drawings in Russell to go on, and these show both diagrams with 6'4"s. I note that Stafford Road Models do a 3D Print plug in 8'6" with footboards, which would be ideal, while I think a C10 would need a 7', which they also produce. Over £13 per coach does dramatically push up the cost of the project, but then, as someone noted, overall the price per coach is reasonable given the cheapness of the donor coaches. PS: Excellent website BTW

Indeed, and the reality is that the "and predecessors" bit is somewhat token; Graham's threads predominately deal with models that are very much ex- whatever the Southern's progenitors produced because that is what the manufacturers make. But, moves are on foot in the Pre-Grouping section of this site to address the use of RTR models by those interested in ancient history.

Can't see such effete Gallic frippery catching on in Edwardian Norfolk. Something much more Clean Living, English and Manly for Castle Aching:

We could do it by company, and extend to rolling stock (which is fairly minimal), so each topic might amount to something like a guide on what you can and can't achieve using RTYR in modelling company X. So, LSW springs to mind. Here we have one loco that I think can be used as manufactured, M7 (but this would be a place to identify any problems/tweaks), one loco that should be easy to backdate, the 415 Class Radial, and two that are completely unsuitable and would be s*ds to try to back-date, the T9 and the 700.

I tend to agree with the last 3 posts. If there is one reason for posting about the potential of a new release for a pre-Grouping, or early Grouping modeller, on the general product thread, I would say that the reason would be to maintain at least some profile for the relatively neglected periods in the hope that an "average enthusiast", such as myself, might stumble across the possibilities for modelling these wonderful periods in our railway history. Otherwise there is really nothing to challenge the illusion that railway history began c.1950. On the other hand, any discussion of pre-Grouping models tends to fall on stony ground. Thankfully we have rather fewer of the "go away and learn to build kits if you want one of those" comments than we used to, but the odd nugget of pre-Grouping information gets easily lost in the crowd of posts. For instance, I posted concerning whether anyone knew where the Hs worked prior to WW1, specifically, would they have been seen down the old mainline as far Redhill. That sparked off a number of posts about the class's distribution in the '50s and '60s, which was interesting, informative and doubtless useful for the majority of H Class customers, but it was as if I'd never mentioned their pre-Grouping workings! How quickly we reset to the hobby's current default! It might be, therefore, that each can best concentrate on his own by separating out the discussion.

Yes, we can do better than manufacturers with the chocolate fireguard that is the Epoch system. A date or date range etc would be welcome.

An excellent and useful thing to do. To address Mikkel's point, I agree, and I for one favour the idea that pre-Grouping modelling can be a reasonably broad church, and what one man cannot live with another can. I think that provided the compromises are noted, people can take from others' projects and suggestions what they will. I am looking forward to this.

What an excellent and useful post. And what an excellent build.

Yes, that is a good idea. Perhaps a single topic on RTR releases that can or can't be used for Pre-Grouping layouts, on adaptions and conversions, etc. Each new release could be considered and discussed in this light. Time to head back to the Ghetto and leave these good BR-modelling folk in peace!

A great composition. I can already image how this might look when completed to the usual exquisite Farthing standard. Looking forward to more.

Well, now. Unlike its progenitor, the West Norfolk isn't broke. It had bought a lot of its stock new, but is not above thrift, and has supplemented these purchases with hand-me-downs from the GE, which backs the line. The GE sold off a number of old (1860s) 4-wheelers around the turn of the Century, and I think some 1860s GE open wagons should also be found in WNR service. I rather think the ex-GER 4-wheelers, yet to be re-liveried, might do for the rather desultory passenger service to Wolfringham, reinforcing the somewhat Colonel Stephens nature of this down at heel extension. I am sure the same coaches were still running in 1935, in case that is of any help to Kevin. That said, if I ever master Silhouette, there will be a nice Metropolitan Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Ltd 4-coach 4-wheel set, built new for the line at the beginning of the 1870s. These replaced the original Wright coaches of the 1850s. The Metropolitan coaches in 1905 form the branch set, running between Castle Aching and Achingham. More recent purchases form the 'mainline' stock, running services between Castle Aching and the coast. These I see as late 1880s to 1890s vintage. The longer vehicles will be 6-wheeled. I was very tempted to produce the coach as a clerestory, but I fear that the West Norfolk does not run to clerestories. The GER had 6-wheeled clerestories, so one of those is possible at some stage. I think it would be in-period to give these coaches an arc roof profile.

I have been trying to hack some rather recalcitrant Triang bodies into a pair of Great Western Clerestory Van Thirds. What has this to do with Norfolk? I hear you cry. About as much as half the posts here (including mine), I answer. Anyway. There are some Bits Left Over. And I thought, they could all be stuck together to make a nice 6-wheel Brake Third for the West Norfolk's 'Mainline' stock.

Perhaps that should be a future project. The line is single here, on the Darlington to Barnard Castle route. The goods yard is modest. to the west, the line goes under the main road and then straight across the Tees on a short stone viaduct. I would choose c. 1900-1905 and have all the locomotives NE green. I fear, though, that the neglected NE will be one of the harder companies to tackle as a relative beginner, so I shall keep this in my pocket for later. Kevin, I cannot account for your visitation. One possibility is that across the gulf of space intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic slowly and surely drew their plans against us, and decided to land advance parties disguised as human beings, but, encountering "the wrong kind of asteroids" en route were severely delayed and arrived a century or so too late. Another possibility is that they have somehow strayed across from a parallel universe, the one in which the real Castle Aching exists, and are simply too polite to ask the way back.

According to Atkins et al, the body was the same as for the 4-wheel AA3, which suggests 'yes'. Better still, the 6-wheeler w/b is 6'6" + 6'6" and that of AA3 is 13'. Possibly Oxford have thought of this. EDIT: Sorry John, our posts crossed. The photographs used by Oxford are in Atkins. I believe the diagram is AA1. The Rogerstone & Swindon brake is given as both built and photographed in 1900. The text comments that they were built for heavy coal trains. If memory serves, a daily goods service ran from Rogerstione to Plymouth and I believe this was the loco coal train, so there is one type of traffic for which it can be used. This is interesting because it is built during the problem years, 1898-1904, and it is a moot point whether out-shopped in red or grey, along with wagons of the cast-plate ilk. I suspect grey is likely to be the best guess. Two secondary sources, Atkins et al and Slinn, suggest that brake vans adopted grey ahead of wagons, as early as the 1880s. But these older authorities are now treated with some caution concerning the date wagons turned from red to grey, however, support for grey comes from one primary source reference; The Locomotive Volume 1, No. 3, March 1896 states: "A light red colour is adopted for the wagon stock with white lettering but the goods brakes are a dark grey." For a summary of the debate see http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieswagonred.html Some heavy 4-wheelers were also built, AA2, and, again, share the same body as AA1 and AA3. Atkins has a picture of one allocated to Rogerstone dated 1922. No date is given for the photograph of the Bridport brake.

Not yet, but I must. Clearly, there will have to be at least one pyramid. I suppose the owner of Aching Hall has a 'thing' about them. More traffic ex-Paltry Circus. Stubby's isn't at all stubby, is it? Rather aggressively pointy, in fact. I can see why they cast Mel Gibson; they're both colossal knobs. Saltburn is a relatively recent acquaintance, but made a very favourable impression. Even the Memsahib was impressed. I must do some GW modelling - my first and most enduring enthusiasm - but I really should model something up here. About 3 stops down from Barnard Castle, when there was a railway here, was this:

Spooky. But unlikely to run far on any gauge.

NLS has a 1938 Revision in the six inch to 1 mile series; the nearest I could get date-wise to WW1. Show the Grove Street line, Deptford Wharf and the Depot's internal lines reasonably well. Lawson Boskovsky Billinton

Grab rails and handles looking good, and you have managed to get much farther forward than I in coach construction, and all praise to you for that!

Very much enjoying the tour. The above comment reminded me of a visit HM Queen made to a regiment out in Germany. It was autumn and the men had spent days clearing up every last leaf as it fell to make the place look tidy. On being greeted off her flight, HRH remarked how she loved the time of year with all the piles of fallen leaves, so the urgent call went back to find the bags of leaves and scatter them all over the base!