Edwardian

Ah, Bulldogs. Don't get me started on Bulldogs. I'd pilot everything over Dainton and Rattery just to have an excuse for more Bulldogs. Mind you, a Bird in the hand ...

Yes, though, you get 2 in the set, but unless you also happen to want WW1 pilots....

It would be like Trumpton, except they'd all be called "Hew"

Hmm, tried "vintage women" on Google. A broad spectrum of results, shall we say, though I did enjoy this:

Thanks both. When I have a moment, I'll take up the thread .... BTW, when I rashly accepted the 1912 attribution, the figure I has in mind was my 1913 lady below (well, mine's undercoated), and I see that the skirt remains full-length (memory playing tricks):

Girls! Girls! Girls! My second-thought assumption, on seeing the 1912 caption, was that this was a well to-do-holiday maker from the metrop; her dress appears more modern than that on the other people, who appear to be noticing her, as, perhaps, did the photographer, as a little avant garde for St Ives. On the other hand, it could equally be an early post-war shot wrongly dated! It makes it clear to me that I have to research frocks and things before I think about passengers!

How true. I first decided that I wanted to model the GW in the mid-thirties in my extreme youth. About 18 years ago, the idea was revived. Next year, provided I have secured a property with room for an outbuilding, I will finally start to do something about it! Thus, by my calculation, it has been 1935 for about 40 years already! Still no layout, but at least a reasonable amount of stock. Waiting. When I have a layout, it will stay summer 1935. No winter, no Hitler, no Nationalisation, no diseasels, and no Beeching! Mind you, the mid-thirties were hard times in Devon, and tragedy touched these lines as a result. An unemployed man stepped out of a moving train on Greenway viaduct on the Torbay line, and the driver of the Ashburton Branch train hanged himself in the engine shed. But, for me, the period will always be associated with my childhood holidays and the preserved lines that added the scent of steam and a pre-war savour to them. That magic is very much still there for a layout set in 1947, like NTB and Kingstorre. So, thanks to Robin for sharing pictures of his inspirational layout, and my greatest respect goes to him for having realised a slice of the GW in the South Hams, not least because it is more by a country mile than I have yet managed!

Superb stuff and a real pleasure to pore over.

There is a distinct move in female clothing to more free-flowing forms. I notice it from around 1912-13, but confess I have yet to make any study of it. Those beautiful Edwardian figures of Andrew Stadden would seem quite wrong for ladies of the later pre-grouping years, say 1912-19. I suspect they would be suitable for 1895ish-1910ish. Menfolk and those in working clothes do not date so quickly. Penlan, you're 1910 are you not? What is your take on this? The next leap is the Cloche hat and shorted hem-line associated with the '20s. I wonder when those hats came in.

"flying"?

Robin, I was going to ask, "what is that running through Brent?" Then someone explained that it was a "Bulleid air-smoothed pacific". Apparently, they're steam locomotives, though BR had to take the casings off several of them before they found this out. Here is a picture of a trio of them on shed:

Mallard, you are gentleman. I do have a VHS player, as it happens, whether it still works is another matter....! In this modern age, sometimes whilst contemplating life in the shaving mirror, I wonder "am I too an obsolete format ...?"

Would be nice to track down that film - lots of interesting details are no doubt captured, even if the coaches and buildings are in the wrong colours(!) I know the B-Sets for Kingsbridge for the Thirties. The kits are unobtainable due to what I reasonably believe is a CONSPIRACY on the part of SOUTHERN ENTHUSIASTS. Mind you, they are "sitting on" Tim Dubya's Ironclads, too.

No, Mallard, absolutely not; not now you're starting to weaken...

Full marks to Mr Wiltshire! It seems to me that the builder of this locomotive essentially created a hybrid (worse than any preservation society!); she has the front end frames of a Hall, but the outside steam pipes, fire iron tunnel and L-shaped cab rail of a Modified Hall. Someone was trying to build a Hall; no.4949 is a 1929 locomotive, interestingly originally paired with a Collett 3,500 gallon tender, though with frequent tender-swops, the Churchward tender is a perfectly plausible pairing for her during the Thirties; in 1934 she had, or still had, one of these smaller Collett tenders, but in 1935 had a Churchward 3,500 gallon. The livery is seems intended to be pre-war, but, as Mike has pointed out, there are problems. There is also a lack of lining to valances and tender frames, missing brass beading, boiler and smoke box lining etc. The weirdest solecism is the decision to line the cabside in BR fashion! As Mike points out, the main challenge is going to be the removal of the fire iron tunnel. Just to think, Bachmann produced its own hybrid when it released the Modified Hall without a fire iron tunnel. Where's that irony meter? Presumably GW 4-6-0s are so hard to get right because people out there really do think they all look the same!

OK, so, now that we all know the difference between and Hall and a Modified Hall, and between pre and post war express passenger livery(!), largely thanks to Coachman (who is clearly the only one really paying attention!), can you tell me what is wrong with this model and what would need to be changed in order to make it an accurate representation of a pre-war locomotive? To help you, to the right is the picture posted earlier, which is of a model that is much closer to how it should look.

Mr Coachman is perfectly correct on all counts! I expected nothing less.

Mallard is closest, so the prize goes to him - ask yourself why the lining on the cylinder casing wrong and extrapolate from there! 6990 was not built until April 1948, yet, it appears that she still came out in GW livery. That livery is the one show in the picture of 6960. The picture of the preserved 6990 is in something close to pre-war fully lined livery (though no brass beading or lining on the splashers on the colour photo, though there appear to be on the B&W I originally posted!) and the tender has the 1927-34 style lettering and crest. Valances and cylinder casings are lined out pre-war, but plain black post-war. In fairness to Robin, it may well have been the case that the Modified Halls were paired with Hawksworth tenders when originally built. I don't know because Modified Halls are 1940s locomotives, which means its the OP's period, not mine!

Here's a clue or 2:

Robin .... in flames:

The RCTS volume doesn't mention any variation in chimneys. So, Mallard, as part of the attempt to Swindonise you, what is wrong about that picture of No. 6990 I posted?

Then, suddenly, the awful truth dawned; railway preservationalists might not be 100% reliable as guides to prototype fidelity:

Yep, thanks, that's the one; the Collett 3,500 gallon tender with the all-round fender. Now, imagine it coupled to a Hall! Furthermore, it ought to be lined and crested, which would make a nice feature; I don't recall having seen this tender-type treated thus on a model. Pre-war modellers really need to put the old Churchward style (or, maybe, a GC-style ex-ROD, as was common on Aberdares by the mid-thirties) on these Collett Goods. Although these tenders were around in the '30s (I think it's a 1929 design), I don't think the Collett Goods were paired with them before the war. During 1935 there were 3 or 4 Collett Goods (a small class at this date compared with the extant Dean standard Goods) at Taunton. I wonder if I could find an excuse to send one West, replacing a failed engine or even on a passenger service, the Plymouth-Taunton stopper? I very much doubt there would be any excuse sufficiently plausible! I'd love to be proved wrong. I have seen a 7200 pictured at Newton Abbot shed in the Thirties. That was good enough for me; if one could get as far as Newton, I could certainly apply license to send it a little further west! Edit; Back to Halls - "The tender looks a bit small for such a big loco?" Oh, I don't know, it's just a Saint with smaller wheels and a different cab after all: PS, the Collett 3,500, as posted by Coachman, is Lot A118 of 1929-30, numbers 2242-68, so quite limited in numbers. I'm not aware of any further lots to this design.

Call me a slap-dash non-perfectionist if you will, but I never saw much wrong with the Bachmann Halls (unmodified). The Great Western green is, to my mind, much preferable to Hornby's. Hornby's GW green can look can look flat, or too blueish (e.g. 2800) or, even, too brown (Star). None has the depth of the Bachmann green. The lining is too bright on the Bachmann Halls, however, especially the boiler bands, where the effect is exacerbated by the orange lines appearing to be too wide. The boiler bands on the Hornby Railroad GW Hall look better! Wait years for a Hall with a Churchward tender, and then 2 come along! This prompts me to float the following scheme, in case anyone has any comments or advice: Bachmann Halls as standard, with 4,000 gallon Collett tenders (e.g.Kinlet and the various special editions), and 3,500 Churchward tender (so far, Rood Ashton), but, with some means of at least toning down the brightness of the lining. A dark wash? new transfers for boiler bands? Hornby Railroad Hall for the rarer tenders. With replacement tenders, a repaint and partial re-lining is necessary. I would seek to mask-off the boiler bands. My thought would be to scratch-build the Churchward 4,000 gallon and pinch a Collett 3,500 gallon from a Collett Goods. As the Railroad Hall comes with the 3,500 Churchward tender, I could repaint and letter this as an unlined tender for a Collett Goods, modifying as necessary. This would give me a prototypical tender pairing for a pre-war Collett Goods. Trouble is, I don't need one for Devon! Certainly the Bachmann motor on its Collett Goods sits too high for me to motorise anything I might be interested in. Bit of a waste. Edit: Bad grammar!

I have found examples of 4 tender-types with Halls in the period of interest. By 1935 we have had several lots out-shopped with Collett 4,000 gallon tenders. Tender swaps were very common, but by then there just seem to be more of the larger tenders to go round. The "Churchward" 3,500 gallon tender was built up to 1926, if I recall correctly, so there are still plenty around. There are also a few examples of both the Churchward 4,000 gallon and the Collett 3,500 gallon tenders serving with Halls. Never thought I'd need one for South Devon, but how I wish I had a redundant Mainline/Bachmann Collett Goods hanging around so I could steal its tender! For a newish standard class (the oldest class members are only 7 years old by this point), there is not much variation in the appearance of the locomotives. So, using different tenders has an appeal. With GW 4-6-0 classes, I will take variety wherever I can find it!