Edwardian

Then, suddenly, the awful truth dawned; railway preservationalists might not be 100% reliable as guides to prototype fidelity:

Yep, thanks, that's the one; the Collett 3,500 gallon tender with the all-round fender. Now, imagine it coupled to a Hall! Furthermore, it ought to be lined and crested, which would make a nice feature; I don't recall having seen this tender-type treated thus on a model. Pre-war modellers really need to put the old Churchward style (or, maybe, a GC-style ex-ROD, as was common on Aberdares by the mid-thirties) on these Collett Goods. Although these tenders were around in the '30s (I think it's a 1929 design), I don't think the Collett Goods were paired with them before the war. During 1935 there were 3 or 4 Collett Goods (a small class at this date compared with the extant Dean standard Goods) at Taunton. I wonder if I could find an excuse to send one West, replacing a failed engine or even on a passenger service, the Plymouth-Taunton stopper? I very much doubt there would be any excuse sufficiently plausible! I'd love to be proved wrong. I have seen a 7200 pictured at Newton Abbot shed in the Thirties. That was good enough for me; if one could get as far as Newton, I could certainly apply license to send it a little further west! Edit; Back to Halls - "The tender looks a bit small for such a big loco?" Oh, I don't know, it's just a Saint with smaller wheels and a different cab after all: PS, the Collett 3,500, as posted by Coachman, is Lot A118 of 1929-30, numbers 2242-68, so quite limited in numbers. I'm not aware of any further lots to this design.

Call me a slap-dash non-perfectionist if you will, but I never saw much wrong with the Bachmann Halls (unmodified). The Great Western green is, to my mind, much preferable to Hornby's. Hornby's GW green can look can look flat, or too blueish (e.g. 2800) or, even, too brown (Star). None has the depth of the Bachmann green. The lining is too bright on the Bachmann Halls, however, especially the boiler bands, where the effect is exacerbated by the orange lines appearing to be too wide. The boiler bands on the Hornby Railroad GW Hall look better! Wait years for a Hall with a Churchward tender, and then 2 come along! This prompts me to float the following scheme, in case anyone has any comments or advice: Bachmann Halls as standard, with 4,000 gallon Collett tenders (e.g.Kinlet and the various special editions), and 3,500 Churchward tender (so far, Rood Ashton), but, with some means of at least toning down the brightness of the lining. A dark wash? new transfers for boiler bands? Hornby Railroad Hall for the rarer tenders. With replacement tenders, a repaint and partial re-lining is necessary. I would seek to mask-off the boiler bands. My thought would be to scratch-build the Churchward 4,000 gallon and pinch a Collett 3,500 gallon from a Collett Goods. As the Railroad Hall comes with the 3,500 Churchward tender, I could repaint and letter this as an unlined tender for a Collett Goods, modifying as necessary. This would give me a prototypical tender pairing for a pre-war Collett Goods. Trouble is, I don't need one for Devon! Certainly the Bachmann motor on its Collett Goods sits too high for me to motorise anything I might be interested in. Bit of a waste. Edit: Bad grammar!

I have found examples of 4 tender-types with Halls in the period of interest. By 1935 we have had several lots out-shopped with Collett 4,000 gallon tenders. Tender swaps were very common, but by then there just seem to be more of the larger tenders to go round. The "Churchward" 3,500 gallon tender was built up to 1926, if I recall correctly, so there are still plenty around. There are also a few examples of both the Churchward 4,000 gallon and the Collett 3,500 gallon tenders serving with Halls. Never thought I'd need one for South Devon, but how I wish I had a redundant Mainline/Bachmann Collett Goods hanging around so I could steal its tender! For a newish standard class (the oldest class members are only 7 years old by this point), there is not much variation in the appearance of the locomotives. So, using different tenders has an appeal. With GW 4-6-0 classes, I will take variety wherever I can find it!

Sorry for the, slight, hi-jacking of Robin's post - at least it has some relevance - and thanks for the responses. Looking at my 1935 register (as you do), I noted the odd helpful thing concerning OOA locos. For instance, 4993, Crosby Hall, was an Old Oak common engine at the time, but was recorded at Newton Abbot Factory in August. This suggests that at the time she was running on WoE services. She seems one to model. Similarly, OOA 4998 and 4999 both recorded at Worcester at various times, which suggests they were mainly working that route out of Paddington. So, less useful. Most just show the locomotive recorded at the home shed throughout, so it is impossible to judge whether they were employed on WoE services at the time. A Westbury engine also recorded at St Philips Marsh and Taunton; what turns might she be working. I haven't looked at Bristol locomotives yet.

Brilliant find, John E. What a splendid thing to have done.

And when I know precisely what is meant by "commissariat".... 1875 - Commissariat and Transport Department, 1880 - Commissariat and Transport Staff and Commissariat and Transport Corps, 1888 - Army Service Corps. After that, no change I nomenclature until post-Nationalisation (so of absolutely no interest!)

Not sure I can do links, but it's www.peoplescollection.wales

Posters: 1 confirmed, 1 probable. For which, thanks. I'll keep looking. Any guesses where these posters were? In the meantime, another musing. I wonder from how far afield we reckon Halls might hail from, running on the Newton-Plymouth section? I'm talking mid-'30s and you're talking late-'40s, but I dare say practices did not differ too radically in terms of where engines came off services. My thoughts are that I would be OK with Newton and Laira engines (obviously). But, I wonder if it would be representative to feature locomotives from elsewhere on the system. I have my doubts! For instance, might a Taunton-Plymouth service feature a Taunton locomotive west of Newton? Surely, yes, though I can only spot one class member allocated there. What about Truro and Penzance locos; there were lots of Halls allocated to Penzance in the mid-'30s. Would they have come off at Plymouth, or routinely worked through to, say, Exeter? If a Hall, for whatever reason, was put on a north to west, might we see, say, a Stafford Road engine? Would Halls have run through from Old Oak Common? With 4-cylinder classes, I would expect to see locos from further afield. For instance, I have seen a number of photos of Stars working west of Newton, and, by that time, there were no Stars allocated locally (save those that were then rebuilt as Castles). I'm getting pretty well on top of how coaching stock was worked, but choosing appropriate motive power is trickier, I am finding.

Robin, you star!

Thanks, I should say that the date is mid-'30s, 1934 I think, but I can check that if necessary. You may be onto something with the ship. I thought the centre one could be a GW travel poster. London? The left of the 3 with the little stick men intrigues me.

But I do mind if you call me "Eddie Baby" Make it bigger? That would make it far too easy. It is a little background detail, so enlargement does for the resolution somewhat. Here we are:

Beg pardon, as I have joined in part way through, I have missed any previous mention of this resource, but, if not, The People's Collection Wales seems a great resource. He are some random samples of Welsh life in the 1890s:

Growing up near the Midland mainline, for years 'my' station was St Pancras (now it's King's Cross/the Harry Potter theme-park), so I 'get' red engines. I have identified a number of prototypes that I want to model, but can't model them all, hence the idea of a fictional set up governed by Rule No.1. Oh, but I have dreamed, I have dreamed. Each of these is entirely do-able, but just not all of them: Wolferton, 1900. Prussian Blue No.1 class, T19 and a Royal Claud. Fin de siècle architecture, royal train and 6-wheeled teak. Craven Arms - GWR, LNWR, Bishops Castle - BIG! Chirk, early 1900s. GW green and Indian Red plus GVT Barnstaple Town - Drummond era LSWR & L&BR Rothbury - North British in Northumberland, my sort of 'alternative' Ashburton, with one of my favourite Victorian motifs, the turntable runround. I'd do pre-1915, with the original wooden ES. The list is seemingly endless. One I am keen on, and that might appeal to a red engine man, is Marple c.1898-1902 when it was still the mainline. MR and GC joint. A certain operational intensity combined with a long and stunning scenic run; you could include the parallel viaduct and aqueduct and North Staffs traffic via the junction. The canal passes under the railway, then, the railway tunnels under the canal! Mind you, anywhere on the Manchester - Miller's Dale route would be stunning, e.g. New Mills. The next station Up from Marple was Strines, which would lack the operational nightmarishness of all those expresses splitting and re-forming at Marple (pre-1902), and which is an attractive wayside station. There is a school of thought that says Strines, and the line around there and Marple, was one of the settings that most influenced E Nesbitt's The Railway Children. So, not K&WVR after all!

I'm afraid there's nothing for it, I'm going to have to intrude with something vaguely related to modelling the South Devon mainline. Having this morning admired the poster-work on Brent's Down side station building (beautifully done), I wondered if anyone could identify the following posters, with a view to, maybe, finding better and colour images:

Yes, this is because, as everyone knows, it was the Welsh who invented television in 1895, hence the immediate need for a Test Card, for which these lovely ladies are clearly posing. It is of great interest because, apart from the 'folkloreish' elements, it does show that some really bold patterns were in favour at the time, and, moreover, in some pretty alarming combinations! Combinations, of course, are a different subject altogether.

So, these Babes were snapped in 1895, so maybe of interest

I think that, so far, pretty much all of my limited Pre-Great War GW loco stud is in 1906 livery, and includes a Mogul (introduced 1911), so initially I would have to concentrate on the immediate pre-war years. Georgian, I suppose, rather than Edwardian! Ian, what a wonderful reason for setting a running session a few years further forward! Dave R, another form of 'second-hand' nostalgia, but what a wonderful path it's led you down.

G'luck with that.

Respect for der North German Baroque posse! As well, of course, for the sublime Mozart.

Mike, I see what you mean. I read somewhere that the appearance of the GW at the turn of the Century was typified by Churchward boilers on Dean Engines. Really only from 1903, when the Saints got into production, did the fully realised 'modern image' start to become be seen. I suspect one could make an argument for the last 5 years of the Nineteenth Century as an aesthetic golden age for the GW, with comparatively slim, elegant and even lithe standard gauge Dean designs in the opulent lined green and Indian Red livery and fully lined chocolate and cream clerestories. High Victorian majesty. Ian, lovely models, but my eye is constantly drawn to the left of the picture; a real beauty.

Well, yes, Lake, not to mention wartime brown. I was thinking of the locomotives when I hazarded that particular remark.

Agreed!

Dai Another Day?

Never say never, Jamie!